GUILTY UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London, Clapham Common area, 3 Mar 2021 *Awaiting Sentencing*, #15

Discussion in 'Trials' started by tesni, Mar 5, 2021.

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  1. Seattle1

    Seattle1 #LiveLikeLizzy&Gabby

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    I think mental illness was definitely at play here but WC was given pause because of his occupation. I think even family and friends fell to this false sense of security about the man they believed they knew.

    For example, we recently saw outrageous behavior by a high $$$$ athlete that tried to break down the door of his inlaws before finally being taken down by LE k9. Reportedly, he'd also been suffering from mental issues for months (probably longer). He could have killed the occupants if he was successful in entering the residence. However, after facing only misdemeanor charges, he was released without even having to post bail! MOO
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021


  2. Seattle1

    Seattle1 #LiveLikeLizzy&Gabby

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    Do we even know what WC was wearing when he abducted SE from the well-lit road? I recall that WC & SE were filmed standing beside his vehicle and I wonder if they could determine his attire.
     
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  3. JuicyLucy

    JuicyLucy Well-Known Member

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    WC was formally dismissed from the Met on Friday for gross misconduct (in the form of discreditable conduct), following an accelerated misconduct hearing. The press release below summarises the decision and also contains a link to AC Helen Ball's statement of findings, which is redacted so as not to prejudice the outstanding proceedings.

    So there is definitely more detail to come out in due course, as we suspected.

    PC Wayne Couzens dismissed from MPS

    ETA that AC Ball's statement lays out the aggravating factors (though they are redacted) and then specifically says that there are no mitigating factors of any kind. It will be interesting to see if that position is mirrored by the judge at sentencing.

    It will also be interesting to see if an unredacted version becomes available after sentencing is complete.

    JMO
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021
  4. Seattle1

    Seattle1 #LiveLikeLizzy&Gabby

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    I believe the nickname is also unsourced but true or false, it's definitely being used to imply more, IMO:

    Sarah Everard’s killer was nicknamed ‘The Rapist’ ...

    Wayne Couzens’ ex-colleagues at the Civil Nuclear Constabulary (CNC), where he joined in March 2011, reportedly gave him the nickname because he made some female officers feel uncomfortable, The Sun reports.


    Wayne Couzens nicknamed ‘The Rapist’ three years before he was hired by Met
     
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  5. annpats

    annpats Well-Known Member

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    I think the hire car was just for London. Not tying his own personal vehicles into it up there on work territory, and also sort of hiding in plain sight....? Plus, trying to avoid immediate detection by his colleagues in The Met.

    Once he got back on his own territory in Deal/Dover etc. he felt a bit more in control, he didn't need the hire car anymore, he had his own car here, and could dispensed with the hire car.
    It wasn't needed now, but only in London to be a bit surreptitious.....(or so he thought, but good old bussy caught him in the act :D)
     
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  6. tayaway

    tayaway Well-Known Member

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    As a little girl in the '70s, I used to watch Benny Hill with my granpa. My granma would come into the room and say, 'Pat! She shouldn't be watching that!' He'd just laugh. <modnsip>
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 21, 2021
  7. Newthoughts

    Newthoughts Well-Known Member

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    I think the sentencing hearings do have to give more of the details of the charges and what is known about the case. The judge has to publicly justify any sentence they give. Defence and prosecution have to plead aggravating and mitigating circumstances.

    I guess because this is just an employment disciplinary hearing to allow them to sack him the admissions of guilt and the seriousness of the crimes are more than sufficient without need to give details.

    Does his guilty plea now mean the investigation stops and therefore less info is available to the judge? I'd always assumed it would and therefore more details of what happened are no longer investigated. Which would mean slightly less detail being available to the court. Which could mean less to rile up other prisoners and provoke attacks? Tho as a police officer he's going to be in for a hard time anyway before his horrendous crimes get considered.

    Am I right in believing admission of guilt doesn't count to reduced sentencing in a murder trial? Am I right in believing abuse of trust, implicit in his job (he was a police officer after all) is counted as yet another aggravating factor

    All above is my opinion
     
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  8. Nikynoo

    Nikynoo Verified Attorney - United Kingdom

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    SBM - on the first point, it depends - it would be a mitigating factor, but I would think on the whole the aggravating factors outway a guilty plea. I would think that a guilty plea would only be used to negate a sentence if full disclosure was given by the Defendant and I do not think this is the case here.
     
  9. Moll

    Moll Well-Known Member

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    Don't you think it's not only a question of full disclosure, but whether it's made at the first opportunity, which is certainly not the case here?
    I described some time ago attending a two-day sentencing hearing for a fraud gang. The first day was almost entirely taken up with the prosecuting QC going through the crimes committed and I would hope the same is true here, as suggested by the prosecution's statement at the last hearing. It was also stated that investigations were continuing.
     
  10. Nikynoo

    Nikynoo Verified Attorney - United Kingdom

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    yes, i do.
     
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  11. Moll

    Moll Well-Known Member

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    Just found one comment from the CPS at the last hearing where it's implied the details will be told later:

    'Carolyn Oakley, CPS Specialist Prosecutor, said: "Today Wayne Couzens pleaded guilty to the murder of Sarah Everard. This plea is as a result of a great deal of hard work by the prosecution team. The police should be commended for their thorough and tireless investigation into Sarah’s disappearance.

    “Couzens lied to the police when he was arrested and to date, he has refused to comment. We still do not know what drove him to commit this appalling crime against a stranger.

    “Today is not the day for hearing the facts about what happened to Sarah. Today is a day to remember Sarah and our thoughts remain with her family and friends.”'
     
  12. Moll

    Moll Well-Known Member

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    This is an extract from reports of the last hearing that I have already posted about 24 pages back, but is probably worth posting again, as questions keep coming up about whether the sentencing will include the facts of what Couzens did and whether they are still trying to find out more:

    ‘Police are still analysing evidence in the murder of Sarah in an attempt to establish exactly what happened to the 33-year-old.

    Prosecutor Tom Little QC, today told the Old Bailey: “There are some scientific findings which need to be concluded and then potentially some statistical evaluation in order to consider whether, for example, mixed DNA may contain blood or semen.

    “That may go to establish where it was that Sarah Everard was raped and where she was murdered.

    “The only account that you have for him is that he gave on April 9 when he gave an entirely false story as to what happened to the deceased.

    "You wish to be in the position where you can set out as fully as possible what the Crown’s understanding is of the train of events that led to her death.”’

    (Kent Online 9 July:

    Police officer admits murdering Sarah Everard)
     
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  13. Marantz4250b

    Marantz4250b Well-Known Member

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    The investigation hasn't stopped - I'm sure it was said, specifically, that they were still investigating the full facts around the case. One of the things they are trying to establish, I think, is how exactly he managed to kidnap her and what the time was between that and him murdering her. All of these are very relevant facts as far as his sentencing goes.
     
  14. Marantz4250b

    Marantz4250b Well-Known Member

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    You are right here, I reckon. There are very few mitigating factors in this case. His guilty plea does not automatically count as one as it is entirely plausible in that he is entering it for his own reasons - perhaps he doesn't want to have to sit through a trial and for lots and lots of really hideous things to be said about him.
     
  15. Newthoughts

    Newthoughts Well-Known Member

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    The scientific findings comment is very odd indeed.

    He's the only rapist involved so if the sample is from her body that mixed DNA would only be his and hers for which they should have clear reference samples?


    Also it says this will help determine whether they contained blood or semen and where she was raped and murdered? So I'm guessing these are small DNA traces taken from either a car or some other site which would contain just trace DNA from more sources - especially if it's the hire car? In the days between him abducting Sarah and the car being discovered how many people could have hired it out leaving trace DNA? Which really wouldn't contain blood or semen?

    Just random opinions. Doesn't look.like he's volunteering much.
     
  16. Stella123

    Stella123 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder what the blacked out bits say.
     
  17. Ruthbullock

    Ruthbullock Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps I have watched too much line of duty, but I stated at the beginning there is a much bigger picture to this and I still believe this to be true. I think there was internal help for him to be where he was, I think blind eyes were turned because of his contacts and whilst I originally believed it to be to do with gang related and targets, his trafficking is on a similar vein. I think he pleaded guilty as he had no choice, if he didn't he would be gone before he could reveal a whole sordid story in court. I said it was far fetched, but that they were my first impressions and got told they were far fetched- however I still think I’m on the right lines. All the tripe about not doing enhanced checks etc for several years and that he flew through different departments as a middle aged mechanic, due to staff shortages is absolute ********
     
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  18. cestmoi

    cestmoi Active Member

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    I'm wondering what is it that makes you feel so certain about this. What information or facts about this case have led you to feel strongly about this particular theory? It may have been labelled "far fetched" because it doesn't seem like anything has been revealed that would support it. The mention of providing a girl was apparently made by WC at an initial stage, when other comments made during the same talk were later found to be lies (e.g. that he had handed her over, when he later pled guilty of something very different from that initial story).
    Edited to add: I'm genuinely curious, not attacking your views. Sorry if it was worded a bit tersely, that was unintentional.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2021
  19. JuicyLucy

    JuicyLucy Well-Known Member

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    No disrespect to you and you may well be right, but in life in general I think I would always favour c**k up over conspiracy, and this is no exception.

    JMO
     
  20. Ruthbullock

    Ruthbullock Well-Known Member

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    I know the vetting process and the wording used in the newspaper articles doesn’t ring true about we skipped vetting as we needed staff. Add to that all the people who are now coming out stating oh we thought he was odd, yes we knew he was doing things he shouldn’t be- again covering their backs. Plus his immediate guilty plea, after smashing his head against a wall to try and plead insanity- therefore avoiding any in depth investigation.
     
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