GUILTY UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London, Clapham Common area, 3 Mar 2021 *Life sentence* #16

Status
Not open for further replies.

minneolo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2020
Messages
134
Reaction score
1,879
I am struck by two things in reading today’s proceedings:

1. Each detail of WC’s actions is more vile than the next. My heart aches for Sarah and her loved ones to even imagine what she experienced.
2. The Met really nailed him. The evidence is so very thorough and so definitive. I am impressed.
 

ShireChe

New Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2021
Messages
2
Reaction score
14
I am not sure what the defence can bring to the table aside from trying to argue down from a whole life tariff to something like a minimum 30 year sentence.

The only other alternative would be using something from the psychiatric evaluations, although if there was anything truly compelling then you would have thought that would have had an impact on the plea entered.

Aside from how horrendous this whole thing is, there is one thing I am wondering if anyone can shed some light on.

I'm sure it said somewhere that before his arrest officers were outside his house for about two hours. Why did they wait so long? At this point there was a possibility Sarah was still alive somewhere. Surely every second could have been crucial in any attempt to find her
 

Whitehall 1212

Verified Law Enforcement and SAR (UK)
Joined
Aug 29, 2019
Messages
529
Reaction score
3,962
It is common in murders-he was a strong male & likely trained in such techniques for his job, it wouldn't likely have lasted as long as you fear.

UK Police are not trained in strangle or choke holds or any similar techniques to render people unconscious or control the neck.

I recall reading that WC had been fanatical about martial arts in the past. He is very likely to have become aware of such techniques and how to perform them as part of this fascination.

Nevertheless, WC has indicated that he used his belt to strangle Sarah. The force required to break the hyoid bone by strangulation is significant (35-46 pounds of pressure), which would be greatly assisted by the use of a belt.
 

LucyRocket

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2016
Messages
959
Reaction score
6,628
Sarah's murder feels quite personal to me. I grew up in that area. My mum and her sisters were raised on Clapham Park Estate, my aunt stayed there so I spent every weekend and school holiday with my cousins right there. My aunt lived on Forster Road. I spent so, so much time in Agnes Riley gardens, I knew Clapham Park Estate, New Park Road, Atkins, Clarence, Brixton like the back of my hand. I felt ripped out that this had happened. For me, this was personal. That was my safe place, albeit being probably deemed one of the most dangerous places in London in the 80/90s. Shootings, stabbings, robberies, drug crime, poverty? Yes, in abundance. Lone women ripped off the street? Nah. I cannot tell you how much I love that area and how hard punched in the stomach I felt when I realised just how well I know the place that this horrific situation occurred.

I am catching up with proceedings from today. My mum said the impact statements are hard to read.

That all said, does it really warrant a whole life order? Please don't shoot me down, I am asking genuinely, I would happily see anybody guilty of these murders be sentenced a whole lifer but that's not reality. So what would be the reason for this case? Even Huntley wasn't given a whole life order. Is he paying also for his colleagues failings?


I feel like a whole life tariff 'feels' right, to me. That has nothing to do with how I feel about the police or any other failings. It is because he abused his position in order to easily deceive an innocent, trusting, law-abiding lady off the street with the most horrific intent. That is not to take away any of the seriousness of crimes against other victims who are taken by force or violence, but he used his position to make her vulnerable and incapacitated. She had no opportunity to scream or run or fight, because she didn't know he was a threat.

It doesn't meet the official criteria in the document that @Supernovae posted, but I hope there might be some discretion. I think he'd stand a good chance on appeal if that did happen though, because I think they'd argue that he's been given an unreasonably hard sentence to satisfy public outrage. However, for me, that wouldn't be the case. It would feel like the sentence that fits the aggravating factor of the crime. MOO
 

Kaykedi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2017
Messages
624
Reaction score
3,239
As he'd recently been on Covid patrol duty as well, since Jan wasn't it? He probably got the idea then - stop a lone woman pretending he was on covid duty. After reading the other stuff a while back about him deliberately watching a woman's house after an incident.
That cat should be in the police
 

Kaykedi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2017
Messages
624
Reaction score
3,239
I am not sure what the defence can bring to the table aside from trying to argue down from a whole life tariff to something like a minimum 30 year sentence.

The only other alternative would be using something from the psychiatric evaluations, although if there was anything truly compelling then you would have thought that would have had an impact on the plea entered.

Aside from how horrendous this whole thing is, there is one thing I am wondering if anyone can shed some light on.

I'm sure it said somewhere that before his arrest officers were outside his house for about two hours. Why did they wait so long? At this point there was a possibility Sarah was still alive somewhere. Surely every second could have been crucial in any attempt to find her
I don't have the answer I'm afraid, but, I wonder if they were waiting for permission to enter the property (due to the potential risk of him having a firearm?)
 

Whitehall 1212

Verified Law Enforcement and SAR (UK)
Joined
Aug 29, 2019
Messages
529
Reaction score
3,962
I agree the plan was always to kidnap & kill whoever his victim was to be. Off the top of my head I can’t recall a case where someone has been kidnapped by a stranger & driven to a location then raped and afterwards voluntarily released by the perpetrator. In the instances where murder isn’t part of the plan the rape usually occurs in an open public place like a park for example. It was pre meditated 1000%.

Kidnap of Estate Agent Stephanie Slater, RIP, by Michael Samms (January 1992) Ransom was motive but Stephanie was kept captive and raped by Samms. The Ransom was paid unintentionally when a police covert operation was thwarted.

Stephanie built a relationship with Samms, such that he saw her as a person and was therefore far less likely to kill her.

After eight days holding Stephanie captive, he drove her from where he held her in Newark, Nottinghamshire, UK and returned her to the area where she was kidnapped and where she lived in Great Barr, West Midlands, UK (72 miles), and released her.

Samms had previously murdered Julie Dart, RIP, (July 1991) when she tried to escape after he had kidnapped her.
 

kittythehare

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Messages
12,335
Reaction score
64,156
Hey everyone, I'm more of a lurker on this forum and don't post much. I just wondered have they indicated what the hairbands were used for? I have an awful feeling he bought them for a trophy of her hair. I hate saying that by the way, it's so macabre.
It certainly crossed my mind that he may have taken a 'trophy'. I have not heard one was discovered, however.
 

Whitehall 1212

Verified Law Enforcement and SAR (UK)
Joined
Aug 29, 2019
Messages
529
Reaction score
3,962
I don't have the answer I'm afraid, but, I wonder if they were waiting for permission to enter the property (due to the potential risk of him having a firearm?)

There are various possible reasons. One that jumps out is that they had housed WC at the home address but wanted to firm up some urgent enquiries that supported the grounds for arrest before knocking at the door.

Kent police may have been asked to maintain observations at the address, knowing WC was there, while Met Pol detectives / Forensic Examiners made their way to the address from London to arrest WC and conduct the urgent interview and preliminary search.
 

HeatherErica

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2021
Messages
12
Reaction score
70
I don't see arrogance, I don't see a sociopath or psychopath - I see a pathetic, weak, inadequate, damaged little ego that feels so irrelevant and small that he wanted to gain power from, being in the Police, TA's, carrying a gun, wearing a uniform (ego extensions) muscles, roids, abusing women using sex, rape and murder as a tool, in order to make himself feel like his perceived version of a powerful 'man'.
JMO

Couldn’t have put it better myself
 

Whitehall 1212

Verified Law Enforcement and SAR (UK)
Joined
Aug 29, 2019
Messages
529
Reaction score
3,962
I hope that they change their MO and instruct male police that they may not stop and arrest lone women when they are alone. Telling women that they do not have to get in a male policeman's car would not help, they would just use force.

As much as this is the most sickening crime imaginable, to my knowledge it has never happened before in my living memory by a serving police officer.

There are many occasions where a lone male police officer either in uniform or plain clothes has to arrest/detain a female suspect without delay, e.g. a female carrying a weapon for a gang to/from a planned/commissioned attack, females carrying drugs/cash for gangs, soliciting, shoplifting, violent/aggressive individuals, Mental Health Act. The police could not do their job without being to execute their powers freely, yet lawfully, proportionately and with necessity.

Yes, the police service in conjunction with other agencies/organisations need to look at and greatly improve all the aspects that have promoted/enabled WC and other men to commit such awful crimes, together with the alleged indecency offences and particularly where there is such a heinous abuse of a position of trust. However, it is essential to have perspective and clear-headed thought rather than knee-jerk reactions as 'solutions'.
 

JayWill

Former Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2021
Messages
1,431
Reaction score
10,909
As much as this is the most sickening crime imaginable, to my knowledge it has never happened before in my living memory by a serving police officer.

There are many occasions where a lone male police officer either in uniform or plain clothes has to arrest/detain a female suspect without delay, e.g. a female carrying a weapon for a gang to/from a planned/commissioned attack, females carrying drugs/cash for gangs, soliciting, shoplifting, violent/aggressive individuals, Mental Health Act. The police could not do their job without being to execute their powers freely, yet lawfully, proportionately and with necessity.

Yes, the police service in conjunction with other agencies/organisations need to look at and greatly improve all the aspects that have promoted/enabled WC and other men to commit such awful crimes, together with the alleged indecency offences and particularly where there is such a heinous abuse of a position of trust. However, it is essential to have perspective and clear-headed thought rather than knee-jerk reactions as 'solutions'.
There may not have been abductions and murders by police but there have been arrests for sexual assault by police. It is obvious to most women that police are not different to other men who will take the opportunity to sexually assault if it presents itself and they have a chance of getting away with it.
 

Whitehall 1212

Verified Law Enforcement and SAR (UK)
Joined
Aug 29, 2019
Messages
529
Reaction score
3,962
This is the problem, it doesn't really fall under any of the bullet points for a whole life sentence.

Life sentences – Sentencing



Sentencing - Mandatory life sentences in Murder cases | The Crown Prosecution Service



It looks to me like a starting point of 30 years (point e), with an uplift for all the aggravating factors, maybe to 40-45 years. Hopefully given that he's already 48 that will amount to the same thing.

Methinks the court will consider the seriousness of the offence to be EXCEPTIONALLY high and the starting point will be a life order. There are at least four aggravating factors and nothing in the way of mitigation.....an early guilty plea won't cut it.

I think the Judge will place extreme weight on the absolute breach of trust by a serving police officer in using his position, warrant card, 'powers', police knowledge and handcuffs as a means of executing such an horrific and terrifying crime when his primary core duty was the protection of life.

I believe that will be the key feature of this tragic case that will hammer the nail in a whole life tariff. I hope WC's life is long and that he suffers every second, of every minute of every day and night.
 

JayWill

Former Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2021
Messages
1,431
Reaction score
10,909
As much as this is the most sickening crime imaginable, to my knowledge it has never happened before in my living memory by a serving police officer.

There are many occasions where a lone male police officer either in uniform or plain clothes has to arrest/detain a female suspect without delay, e.g. a female carrying a weapon for a gang to/from a planned/commissioned attack, females carrying drugs/cash for gangs, soliciting, shoplifting, violent/aggressive individuals, Mental Health Act. The police could not do their job without being to execute their powers freely, yet lawfully, proportionately and with necessity.

Yes, the police service in conjunction with other agencies/organisations need to look at and greatly improve all the aspects that have promoted/enabled WC and other men to commit such awful crimes, together with the alleged indecency offences and particularly where there is such a heinous abuse of a position of trust. However, it is essential to have perspective and clear-headed thought rather than knee-jerk reactions as 'solutions'.
Well, it is too bad that this jerk has ruined that. Carrying drugs, cash for gangs and the soliciting and shoplifting fall by the wayside in light of what happened to Sarah. This creep has ruined that because he was caught exposing himself to women and the service did not take it seriously.
 

Whitehall 1212

Verified Law Enforcement and SAR (UK)
Joined
Aug 29, 2019
Messages
529
Reaction score
3,962
There may not have been abductions and murders by police but there have been arrests for sexual assault by police. It is obvious to most women that police are not different to other men who will take the opportunity to sexually assault if it presents itself and they have a chance of getting away with it.

Do you know, I really hope you are wrong! I never had any cause for concern about my colleagues but I know that there have been publicised cases recently, which have made for very disturbing reading.

Unfortunately, when it comes to such offenders, they gravitate to positions of trust and then abuse it to target their victims.

Vetting and particularly ongoing vetting including flagging from credit reference agencies/insurance companies to changes/claims/incidents needs to be introduced.

All persons employed in designated positions of trust should be recorded on a system which links into the Police National Database so that should they come to police notice they are cross-matched to their employment and any concerns can be escalated for risk assessment/further action.
 
Last edited:

Kaykedi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2017
Messages
624
Reaction score
3,239
This tragic case is an absolute disgrace for LE!
How could such a weirdo sneak into their ranks??
Oh, and him cockily showing police belt with handcuffs in public as an UNDERCOVER!!!! officer.
As I understand *undercover* means not to draw attention.
But, as English is a foreign language for me, maybe I misunderstood.
I hear your comment regarding how did a weirdo sneak into the police.
It makes me really angry and frustrated to say that I know FOR A FACT there are quite a number of male officers in the police that are mysogynistic, and, verbally inappropriate towards female colleagues. I'm referring to sexual comments, and, suggestions, on a daily basis. The comments I've been told about are absolutely VILE.
I have suggested (many times) to take the individual/s to complaint level, but, I've been informed that "no, that cannot be done", your "ticket will be marked", "your name will be mud", you'll be passed off as "an uptight, frigid woman" , who "can't take a joke" , or," she's probably a lesbian", and," I knew there was something wrong with her the first time I saw her". It is widely known that, as a woman, you will never progress in your career if you do try to complain... UNBELIEVABLE. But, true.
Which is why I'm sad to say I'm not surprised WC got into the force.
JMO

P. S. Your English is amazing!
 
Last edited:

Whitehall 1212

Verified Law Enforcement and SAR (UK)
Joined
Aug 29, 2019
Messages
529
Reaction score
3,962
Great to see you back here @Whitehall 1212. I was new to WS when Sarah went missing and really appreciated the insider's perspective you and @Angleterre brought to the threads. :)

Thanks for your kind words Juicy Lucy. I dip in when I can, usually when a UK case is high profile.
 

Willowy

Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2021
Messages
22
Reaction score
80
What came out yesterday is incomprehensible. Everything we've heard makes it sound like he was pushing the boundaries of what he could get away with? A fragile ego and a sense of entitlement.

He will get a whole life sentence; the nature of the crime, the calculated premeditation, the destruction of evidence and attempts to cover his tracks, the gross abuse of position, the ludicrous lies he told that wasted police time, the continued withholding of important details, the impact on Sarah's family and friends, and the danger he obviously still poses. The message must also be clear to the public that malicious, rapist, murdering police officers will not be tolerated.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top