GUILTY UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London, Clapham Common area, 3 Mar 2021 *Life sentence* #17

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Stella123

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Like the comment at the end

““Why don’t you first talk about the need to vet police candidates better, weed out the bad ones and the ones who turn a blind eye, change the culture within the force?”.

His remarks wouldn’t have been so bad of he’d said “everyone” instead of just women. Yes people are aware abd more cautious since this but only because trust in the Police has been eroded by the kidnap. They do need to do something so people feel more confident about Police.
 

Stella123

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Like the comment at the end

““Why don’t you first talk about the need to vet police candidates better, weed out the bad ones and the ones who turn a blind eye, change the culture within the force?”.

His remarks wouldn’t have been so bad of he’d said “everyone” instead of just women. Yes people are aware abd more cautious since this but only because trust in the Police has been eroded by the kidnap. They do need to do something so people feel more confident about Police.
The Met Police’s official suggestion that lone women who have the audacity to be in public should, if in doubt, “flag down a bus” if they are not sure about the credentials of an apparently arresting officer, is to my mind a new low in my respect for policing since I moved to London some 17 years ago.

Metropolitan Police: Our response to issues raised by the crimes of Wayne Couzens

On a practical level, every London-dweller knows buses do not stop outside of designated stops and sometimes don’t even stop there. Quite how random bus drivers are meant to police the police is not clear.

The problem is not, and has never been, women’s behaviour or reactions to men, but consistently, male violence.

WC felt emboldened by his previous behaviour going unchallenged. Blah blah “shouldn’t have had the badge” blah blah bad apple blah blah. He had the badge, he had the authority, he used this to rape and murder a member of the public in one of the most terrifying ways I can imagine.

The Met Police deserves and must experience a HUGE reckoning.

“Quite how random bus drivers are meant to police the police is not clear. ”

Absolutely. Ridiculous!
 

Sarahlou

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The Met Police’s official suggestion that lone women who have the audacity to be in public should, if in doubt, “flag down a bus” if they are not sure about the credentials of an apparently arresting officer, is to my mind a new low in my respect for policing since I moved to London some 17 years ago.

Metropolitan Police: Our response to issues raised by the crimes of Wayne Couzens

On a practical level, every London-dweller knows buses do not stop outside of designated stops and sometimes don’t even stop there. Quite how random bus drivers are meant to police the police is not clear.

The problem is not, and has never been, women’s behaviour or reactions to men, but consistently, male violence.

WC felt emboldened by his previous behaviour going unchallenged. Blah blah “shouldn’t have had the badge” blah blah bad apple blah blah. He had the badge, he had the authority, he used this to rape and murder a member of the public in one of the most terrifying ways I can imagine.

The Met Police deserves and must experience a HUGE reckoning.

Flag down a bus!! I honestly don't even know what to say anymore..
 

Stella123

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Complete PR disaster. If it wasn’t bad enough already. Crass.

The Met did do an absolutely brilliant job of bringing him to trial and proving he did it. They need to be saying the right things now. And publishing an action plan for the future.

My hope is that after WC got a whole life sentence it may deter other Police from crimes against women at least. The Judge sent out a clear message that it is much more serious when it’s a Police officer and stress etc no excuse.
 

Moll

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Agreed, an extraordinary comment.
In fairness to the police themselves this man is a Conservative politician in North Yorkshire, not a police officer.
 

DFR3217

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I think WC has definitely committed other sex crimes before. Going from flashing to murder at the age of 48 is too much of an escalation. We know he used prostitutes; men who use prostitutes are significantly more likely to commit rape. It would be easy for him to rape a prostitute, because juries often just don’t believe sex workers can be raped. He seemed to be familiar with those brothels that have trafficked Romanian sex slaves, and I would argue using those girls is inherently rape. It wouldn’t surprise me if he’s raped non-pristitutes too.
WC was accused of indecent exposure 3 days before he murdered SE, I see he was also accused of it in 2015, but Kent police didn't investigate properly. I wonder if there's a pattern, if he attacked anyone else might he had done it a few days after that episode of indecent exposure. They seem to be quite similar, him driving in his car with no trousers on. Just speculation, but just made me wonder.
 

DFR3217

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I don't know if anyone else has posted this, but I saw this earlier, and Libby Squire's mum has talked about the need for tougher measures for lower level sex offender crimes such as flashing. I was wondering earlier what would have happened if Kent police had pursued WC over the indecent exposure allegations, and apparently he might have just got a caution. I wonder what the right response to these sorts of crimes is?
Libby Squire's mum calls for tougher sex offender measures
 

Stella123

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I can’t remember the link but seem to remember that with the 2015 incident, although it was reported he couldn’t be clearly identified by the person who reported it. But even so sounds a bit like sweeping it under the carpet.

Another article yesterday I think - that someone linked said the woman who reported the Macdonalds flashing said he’d done it a few times before but everyone thought it was a bit of a joke - she was upset so reported it. Again I can’t find the link again - sorry!

But does suggest he’s been doing it before. Maybe part of those thrips to London the month before he abducted SE.
 

Skigh

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Police KNEW a Wayne Couzens was accused of flashing but failed to identify him as a Met officer | Daily Mail Online

McDonald's worker who was flashed by Wayne Couzens today blasted police for 'not acting quickly enough' after they were handed CCTV of him at the drive-thru three days before Sarah Everard's murder - as it emerged officers knew his name but failed to identify him as one of their officers until after the tragedy.

The woman, who did not want to be named, said that two incidents of Couzens exposing himself took place in February as he arrived in his car late at night at a drive-thru on the A20 near Swanley in Kent with his trousers down. Police were told of the allegations on February 28 although the incidents took place earlier that month.

Speaking exclusively to MailOnline, she fumed: 'The police took our statements and took away CCTV. If they had taken this more seriously, they could easily have figured out that he was a policeman who had committed these crimes. The police had three days to stop him but didn't. It could have stopped him from doing a lot worse.'
 

Stella123

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I don't know if anyone else has posted this, but I saw this earlier, and Libby Squire's mum has talked about the need for tougher measures for lower level sex offender crimes such as flashing. I was wondering earlier what would have happened if Kent police had pursued WC over the indecent exposure allegations, and apparently he might have just got a caution. I wonder what the right response to these sorts of crimes is?
Libby Squire's mum calls for tougher sex offender measures

I think it could need an act of Parliament before anything serious is done about it. Because it is the kind of thing people joke about - some idiot dropping his trousers. They see him as a sad comedy figure. Not understanding the mentality behind it. I was flashed at as a 17 year old walking to a friend‘a house from a bus stop and I was terrified (and also a bit traumatised- being very naive at that age too). I ran and didn’t realise I’d actually wet myself till I stopped running. Yet my friends laughed as well. I did report it to the Police and was told oh that old guy - he’s harmless - been doing it for years. He was a caretaker at an all girls college! Hmm. People who don’t experience it see it as a joke. Those who do experience it feel invaded.
 

Crazy Mama

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It’s heartbreaking to think how terrified she would have been. The journey to Dover, helpless and handcuffed and he would have had the car locked. If she had been screaming and pleading with him, it would have irritated him. Does anyone think that he gave her some kind of tranquilliser or drug to make her sleep after he got her in the car?
I think that her remains were tested and no positive results. I can’t recall exactly.
 

squish

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That is appalling victim blaming. Somehow men always manage to make it the woman’s fault for their own rapes and murders. She shouldn’t have been so ignorant of the law to get in his car according to him. Does he really think that if she’d been less compliant, WC wouldn’t have just manhandled her into the car? He was comfortable enough in the realisticness of his false arrest to do it in full view of a busy road. Plus, he wasn’t going to let her go after all of that, it would have left a witness to tell on him when he got his next victim.

If they spent less time policing the social media looking for wrongthink, and making stickers on lampposts national news, they would have more time to deal with real crimes like flashing.
 

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Newthoughts

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Like the comment at the end

““Why don’t you first talk about the need to vet police candidates better, weed out the bad ones and the ones who turn a blind eye, change the culture within the force?”.

His remarks wouldn’t have been so bad of he’d said “everyone” instead of just women. Yes people are aware abd more cautious since this but only because trust in the Police has been eroded by the kidnap. They do need to do something so people feel more confident about Police.


“Quite how random bus drivers are meant to police the police is not clear. ”

Absolutely. Ridiculous!
It has enraged me.

Perhaps, just perhaps, his advice to familiarize yourself with the law would be better directed at rapists and murderers? Just a thought.
 

infinit

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The Met Police’s official suggestion that lone women who have the audacity to be in public should, if in doubt, “flag down a bus” if they are not sure about the credentials of an apparently arresting officer, is to my mind a new low in my respect for policing since I moved to London some 17 years ago.

Metropolitan Police: Our response to issues raised by the crimes of Wayne Couzens

On a practical level, every London-dweller knows buses do not stop outside of designated stops and sometimes don’t even stop there. Quite how random bus drivers are meant to police the police is not clear.

The problem is not, and has never been, women’s behaviour or reactions to men, but consistently, male violence.

WC felt emboldened by his previous behaviour going unchallenged. Blah blah “shouldn’t have had the badge” blah blah bad apple blah blah. He had the badge, he had the authority, he used this to rape and murder a member of the public in one of the most terrifying ways I can imagine.

The Met Police deserves and must experience a HUGE reckoning.

It's a silly response, I agree. Although I've found pretty much everything in the media the last few days exasperating. There are roughly 150,000 Police Officer's in the UK. Based off the 600 homicides last year in the UK and naively assuming each was a seperate individual and only 1, that's roughly a murderer per every 115k people each year. If any other section of society you'd expect atleast 1 murder carried out per year by a group the size of the UK Police. There is no magical way to vet someone with 100% certainty unfortunatly and there never will be. Developed Vetting, the highest and most intense vetting in the UK is not infallible even though it's extremely resource intensive to carry out and does go to the level of examining *advertiser censored* history and online activity etc.

Statistically based off 2019 ONS data, a male is roughly 320% more likely to be murdered by a complete stranger than a woman. Homicides against women are overwhemingly carried out by their partner, ex-partner, family member or a acquaintance, far more than men, and that is where the huge problem is. Some elements of the media and certain people are attempting to create hysteria where it's not required when actually there are very legit issues that deserve that spotlight.
 

Newthoughts

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I don't know if anyone else has posted this, but I saw this earlier, and Libby Squire's mum has talked about the need for tougher measures for lower level sex offender crimes such as flashing. I was wondering earlier what would have happened if Kent police had pursued WC over the indecent exposure allegations, and apparently he might have just got a caution. I wonder what the right response to these sorts of crimes is?
Libby Squire's mum calls for tougher sex offender measures
Libby Squires was also raped and murdered by a man who had spent a considerable amount of time exposing himself to young women (and also watching lots of *advertiser censored*). Despite lots of evidence collected - those crimes weren't investigated. As the case progressed it became obvious that a small amount of policing could have caught him early on. Lots of info was there.

WC exposed himself days before he murdered SE. It was reported but despite CCTV it hadn't been investigated at that point. In my opinion - if the tragedy of SE hasn't happened - it probably still wouldn't have been investigated beyond interviewing staff to tick a box. Again if it was on CCTV it would have been easy to catch him.

I think too often it is seen as a minor, joke crime. Too low level to devote many resources to. If it had been treated as a precursor to rape perhaps those and many other young women would be alive

I heard all about treating it more seriously two years ago. Yet here we are. Another life lost cos a willy waving bloke is just a bit of a joke. Every police officer that thinks that should be made to listen to impact statements of Sarah and Libby's families on a loop until they understand!
 
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