GUILTY UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London, Clapham Common area, 3 Mar 2021 *Life sentence* #17

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squish

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It's a silly response, I agree. Although I've found pretty much everything in the media the last few days exasperating. There are roughly 150,000 Police Officer's in the UK. Based off the 600 homicides last year in the UK and naively assuming each was a seperate individual and only 1, that's roughly a murderer per every 115k people each year. If any other section of society you'd expect atleast 1 murder carried out per year by a group the size of the UK Police. There is no magical way to vet someone with 100% certainty unfortunatly and there never will be. Developed Vetting, the highest and most intense vetting in the UK is not infallible even though it's extremely resource intensive to carry out and does go to the level of examining *advertiser censored* history and online activity etc.

Statistically based off 2019 ONS data, a male is roughly 320% more likely to be murdered by a complete stranger than a woman. Homicides against women are overwhemingly carried out by their partner, ex-partner, family member or a acquaintance, far more than men, and that is where the huge problem is. Some elements of the media and certain people are attempting to create hysteria where it's not required when actually there are very legit issues that deserve that spotlight.

That’s a fair comment. I did think myself the media are fanning the flames. I think the violent response of the Met at the vigil and protest for Sarah was indicative of a far more serious problem within the police, whereas WC was a lone wolf who fell through the cracks.

I think the fact that they ignored his flashing is more indicative of the fact the police don’t bother to investigate “minor” crimes at all - and some of those minor crimes are far more serious than flashing. (For example, in my town, a serious hit and run, and two violent assaults on middle aged women by male strangers.) If anything, that is what needs to change: more focus on crime and less focus on enforcing social engineering. Especially, sex crimes need to be treated more seriously. (While I’m at it the appallingly low conviction rate for rape needs to increase, and so do sentences for rapists).

Police also need to be trained and dissuaded from unnecessarily manhandling arrestees, which is something WC apparently did to one woman.
 

squish

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It's a silly response, I agree. Although I've found pretty much everything in the media the last few days exasperating. There are roughly 150,000 Police Officer's in the UK. Based off the 600 homicides last year in the UK and naively assuming each was a seperate individual and only 1, that's roughly a murderer per every 115k people each year. If any other section of society you'd expect atleast 1 murder carried out per year by a group the size of the UK Police. There is no magical way to vet someone with 100% certainty unfortunatly and there never will be. Developed Vetting, the highest and most intense vetting in the UK is not infallible even though it's extremely resource intensive to carry out and does go to the level of examining *advertiser censored* history and online activity etc.

Statistically based off 2019 ONS data, a male is roughly 320% more likely to be murdered by a complete stranger than a woman. Homicides against women are overwhemingly carried out by their partner, ex-partner, family member or a acquaintance, far more than men, and that is where the huge problem is. Some elements of the media and certain people are attempting to create hysteria where it's not required when actually there are very legit issues that deserve that spotlight.

That’s a fair comment. I did think myself the media are fanning the flames. I think the violent response of the Met at the vigil and protest for Sarah was indicative of a far more serious problem within the police, whereas WC was a lone wolf who fell through the cracks.

I think the fact that they ignored his flashing is more indicative of the fact the police don’t bother to investigate “minor” crimes at all - and some of those minor crimes are far more serious than flashing. (For example, in my town, a serious hit and run, and two violent assaults on middle aged women by male strangers.) If anything, that is what needs to change: more focus on crime and less focus on enforcing social engineering. Especially, sex crimes need to be treated more seriously. (While I’m at it the appallingly low conviction rate for rape needs to increase, and so do sentences for rapists).

Police also need to be trained and dissuaded from unnecessarily manhandling arrestees, which is something WC apparently did to one woman.

Edit: another idea would be to monitor the sex of arrestees of each officer, to ensure they aren’t disproportionately targeting females. This was something WC allegedly did, and it would flag up officers who like to abuse their powers over women.
 

Italia

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Thanks for finding that. It clearly says he hooked up with an escort and took her to a B&B and paid for sex - about a month before he kidnapped SE. And then the flashings. He was out of control - spending money he didn’t have on escorts. Presumably so he could do his “kinky stuff” (re a quote about his handcuffs by some acquaintance earlier - sorry can’t remember which link).

yeah the escort was from a big website where you can just put your preferences in and it will bring up loads of different women, all sorts on there
 

CptShadow

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I really think the wife is lying, from her YouTube video of him screeching in the background and her children acknowledging his anger like it’s an everyday occurrence. (I wish I could find the video). I think he was an angry, controlling dad and husband, and she’s too embarrassed to admit it.

It's possible - but I saw that video (I think it was actually the kids' channel although OC probably set it up for them) and it didn't actually seem that extreme to me. I certainly didn't hear him 'screeching'. There is a point where he (at a distance) says "Oh for f----'s sake" (or something similar). It sounds like he tripped on something or dropped it. His son does reference this saying something like "it's just my dad getting angry" but he was laughing as he said it. To be honest, that's not that unusual, is it?

What was more chilling to me was how normal everything seemed. In another video, his kids are eating ice cream in the kitchen and he's clearly in there busying about off camera, chatting to them. He asks them if they're enjoying it. In another, we see him lifting his daughter onto a climbing frame in a playpark. It's all chillingly ordinary. Very much like his call to the vet after the murder.

I hope his time inside is every bit as difficult as his worst nightmares would suggest it would be.

R.I.P. Sarah.
 

infinit

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That’s a fair comment. I did think myself the media are fanning the flames. I think the violent response of the Met at the vigil and protest for Sarah was indicative of a far more serious problem within the police, whereas WC was a lone wolf who fell through the cracks.

I think the fact that they ignored his flashing is more indicative of the fact the police don’t bother to investigate “minor” crimes at all - and some of those minor crimes are far more serious than flashing. (For example, in my town, a serious hit and run, and two violent assaults on middle aged women by male strangers.) If anything, that is what needs to change: more focus on crime and less focus on enforcing social engineering. Especially, sex crimes need to be treated more seriously. (While I’m at it the appallingly low conviction rate for rape needs to increase, and so do sentences for rapists).

Police also need to be trained and dissuaded from unnecessarily manhandling arrestees, which is something WC apparently did to one woman.

Yeah I completely agree. The Police turned up to a noise complaint on my street because there was a childs birthday party at 5pm on a Sunday in a garden yet groups have set fire to mopeds etc on the park and nothing for hours.

I think the sad reality when it comes to sexual offenses is, they are swamped. If you look at the Crime Survey for England and Wales, the amount of people who have reported when surveyed having been the victim of an assault has stayed relatively static. Yet in 2005 there were 60,924 sexual offences reported to Police while in 202o there were 162,936. Which is obviously fantastic that they're now being reported, yet the Police have less people resource than in 2005. It doesn't really take Einstein to figure out the problem!
 

JayWill

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It's a silly response, I agree. Although I've found pretty much everything in the media the last few days exasperating. There are roughly 150,000 Police Officer's in the UK. Based off the 600 homicides last year in the UK and naively assuming each was a seperate individual and only 1, that's roughly a murderer per every 115k people each year. If any other section of society you'd expect atleast 1 murder carried out per year by a group the size of the UK Police. There is no magical way to vet someone with 100% certainty unfortunatly and there never will be. Developed Vetting, the highest and most intense vetting in the UK is not infallible even though it's extremely resource intensive to carry out and does go to the level of examining *advertiser censored* history and online activity etc.

Statistically based off 2019 ONS data, a male is roughly 320% more likely to be murdered by a complete stranger than a woman. Homicides against women are overwhemingly carried out by their partner, ex-partner, family member or a acquaintance, far more than men, and that is where the huge problem is. Some elements of the media and certain people are attempting to create hysteria where it's not required when actually there are very legit issues that deserve that spotlight.
Another word especially created for women. Hystera the Greek word for uterus as only women can become hysterical.
 

MancGuy Uk

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Libby Squires was also raped and murdered by a man who had spent a considerable amount of time exposing himself to young women (and also watching lots of *advertiser censored*). Despite lots of evidence collected - those crimes weren't investigated. As the case progressed it became obvious that a small amount of policing could have caught him early on. Lots of info was there.

WC exposed himself days before he murdered SE. It was reported but despite CCTV it hadn't been investigated at that point. In my opinion - if the tragedy of SE hasn't happened - it probably still wouldn't have been investigated beyond interviewing staff to tick a box. Again if it was on CCTV it would have been easy to catch him.

I think too often it is seen as a minor, joke crime. Too low level to devote many resources to. If it had been treated as a precursor to rape perhaps those and many other young women would be alive

I heard all about treating it more seriously two years ago. Yet here we are. Another life lost cos a willy waving bloke is just a bit of a joke. Every police officer that thinks that should be made to listen to impact statements of Sarah and Libby's families on a loop until they understand!

absolutely true they need to start taking these crimes seriously I just hope we are not here in 2 years time discussing another missing person case that turns out to be a another murder by a individual who has a list of these previous red flags
 

Willowy

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Does anyone know about his role as an actor extra.
He says in the actual advert
"I have seven years of military experience and currently work as a police officer. I keep fit and regularly attend my martial arts club. I have a manner of skills I can bring to the acting role". :eek:
Evil Wayne Couzens bragged of martial arts skills and wore wig in actor profile

He wasn't an actor. StarNow is a site where wannabes make a profile and hope to get talent spotted. It became mostly used by press looking for models, or case studies for real life stories (I used to use it a lot for this purpose) because it's full of people who just want to be famous/in the media. Quite telling of his personality.
 

Italia

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Another couple of locations I remember being searched: the breakers yard and bettinger park and a place next to a skate park?
 

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Rusty Braincells

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It's a silly response, I agree. Although I've found pretty much everything in the media the last few days exasperating. There are roughly 150,000 Police Officer's in the UK. Based off the 600 homicides last year in the UK and naively assuming each was a seperate individual and only 1, that's roughly a murderer per every 115k people each year. If any other section of society you'd expect atleast 1 murder carried out per year by a group the size of the UK Police. There is no magical way to vet someone with 100% certainty unfortunatly and there never will be. Developed Vetting, the highest and most intense vetting in the UK is not infallible even though it's extremely resource intensive to carry out and does go to the level of examining *advertiser censored* history and online activity etc.

Statistically based off 2019 ONS data, a male is roughly 320% more likely to be murdered by a complete stranger than a woman. Homicides against women are overwhemingly carried out by their partner, ex-partner, family member or a acquaintance, far more than men, and that is where the huge problem is. Some elements of the media and certain people are attempting to create hysteria where it's not required when actually there are very legit issues that deserve that spotlight.

With respect, I don’t think this is the thread for whataboutery about the male murder rate or the fact that of course the vast majority of police officers don’t commit murder and the use of the word “hysteria” doesn’t help your point.

There were serious failings in WC still being in the police force, there are issues with women’s safety in a modern, prosperous democracy, and the Met Police’s response to tell women to challenge plain clothes officers is absolutely ludicrous. They should focus on reviewing internal procedures first and foremost. WC was not employed or tolerated in a vacuum.
 

Stella123

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It's a silly response, I agree. Although I've found pretty much everything in the media the last few days exasperating. There are roughly 150,000 Police Officer's in the UK. Based off the 600 homicides last year in the UK and naively assuming each was a seperate individual and only 1, that's roughly a murderer per every 115k people each year. If any other section of society you'd expect atleast 1 murder carried out per year by a group the size of the UK Police. There is no magical way to vet someone with 100% certainty unfortunatly and there never will be. Developed Vetting, the highest and most intense vetting in the UK is not infallible even though it's extremely resource intensive to carry out and does go to the level of examining *advertiser censored* history and online activity etc.

Statistically based off 2019 ONS data, a male is roughly 320% more likely to be murdered by a complete stranger than a woman. Homicides against women are overwhemingly carried out by their partner, ex-partner, family member or a acquaintance, far more than men, and that is where the huge problem is. Some elements of the media and certain people are attempting to create hysteria where it's not required when actually there are very legit issues that deserve that spotlight.

They should do psychological or psychometric tests as part of vetting.
 

Stella123

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I was wondering about his brother too. A tough time for him and especially being in the Police too - he might feel it rubs off on him too - being related. I am sure they are giving him support. But it makes you wonder if he knew more about his history than others. Probably not. No idea what my sister got up to in her youth!
 

Stella123

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With respect, I don’t think this is the thread for whataboutery about the male murder rate or the fact that of course the vast majority of police officers don’t commit murder and the use of the word “hysteria” doesn’t help your point.

There were serious failings in WC still being in the police force, there are issues with women’s safety in a modern, prosperous democracy, and the Met Police’s response to tell women to challenge plain clothes officers is absolutely ludicrous. They should focus on reviewing internal procedures first and foremost. WC was not employed or tolerated in a vacuum.

Agree. Quite a few men and children killed in 2021 as well. This is more about an individual who was in a position of trust snd supposed to help/save people. He has given the Police a bad name full stop.

It sounds like training is needed, as well as policy changes - that a serious approach to flashing is the flasher is likely to become a murderer. But this is a problem with a lot of authorities and professions - they don’t see their role as pre-empting serious crime - only solving it. So whose job is it to pre-empt? If flashers are dealt with promptly and seriously - what do they do with them? A court decision to order therapy or something? Would that work?
 

JayWill

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Agree. Quite a few men and children killed in 2021 as well. This is more about an individual who was in a position of trust snd supposed to help/save people. He has given the Police a bad name full stop.

It sounds like training is needed, as well as policy changes - that a serious approach to flashing is the flasher is likely to become a murderer. But this is a problem with a lot of authorities and professions - they don’t see their role as pre-empting serious crime - only solving it. So whose job is it to pre-empt? If flashers are dealt with promptly and seriously - what do they do with them? A court decision to order therapy or something? Would that work?
Not only murder, but I would guess that it also leads to rapes, more often than murders.
 
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