Found Deceased UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London - Clapham Common area, 3 March 2021 *Arrests* #10

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BBM - that's exactly what we're all theorising about but as he was off duty he wasn't pulling her over, it's a semantic issue maybe but whatever he did it couldn't be described by a term that applies to on duty officers

I suggest we agree to differ though :)

If an off duty police officer shows their warrant card and declares they are a police officer, they are then on duty. They don't have to be in uniform or on shift to be on duty.
 
I think we may all be reading into the both car doors open thing a bit too much. We don’t know how long the footage of this is. If it was taken from a moving bus it may only be a split second. I don’t know why he had the hazard lights on but my guess is possibly habit because he had stopped the car in an area that is red route and you shouldn’t stop. It could have been an unconscious reaction and may explain why they weren’t on in the subsequent bus footage.

I suppose it depends if he stopped on Poynders road or Rodenhurst. Poynders would require hazard lights because it’s busier but Rodenhurdt not so much. I happen to think the hazard lights is significant and there being no reason to draw attention to himself so is likely part of a ploy to get her to sit in the car.
 
I keep wondering if I would get in a policeman’s car if he showed me a warrant card. Id like to think in the back of my mind I’d know that a lone policeman wouldn’t ask you into car but would take details and ask you to report to a police station as soon as reasonably possible but in the time it would take me to get over my confusion and think that through, it could well be too late. I don’t think we’ll ever know but the Met might be advised to publicise and issue some guidance on the issue.

I'm a bloke and I wouldn't put myself in a vulnerable position with someone who just flashes a warrant card, I don't even know what a real one looks like never mind a fake one. Even a lone policeman in uniform I would be more than wary.
 
Thank you if you have that handy as I only two the two front doors open which would go towards my theory that she got in willingly.

Found it:

'His charge sheet alleges he "unlawfully and by force took or carried away Sarah Everard against her will".' - it's from the Daily Mirror's account of court proceedings today. The fact it's in quotation marks suggests it's a direct transcription of the charge sheet. As a reminder, UK definition of kidnap is "to take by force or by fraud" - the fact the charge sheet specifically states she was taken "by force" seems to me to rule out that she was taken by fraud - ie, she wasn't coerced or tricked into getting into the car - she was physically forced into it.

This makes sense to me. He's a bulky, muscular guy, and she's a slight woman - he'd have no need to come up with some detailed plan about how to convince her to get in the car - much easier, and quicker, just to physically force her in there. As someone else has pointed out, it'd be over in seconds. As they say, the simplest explanations are usually the correct ones.

To me that fully answers the question of how she got in the car - he put her there.

Link: Police officer accused of abducting and murdering Sarah Everard appears in court
 
Whether she lived alone or not, support bubble or not, it is not against any rules to be walking outside at any time.


As I have proven already you can legally be stopped and questioned if the police believe you are breaking lock down laws. Prove me wrong if you can as you can’t. The rules are quite clear on this matter.
 
Am I correct that the bus camera that caught the footage of the car with the two door open would have been in the front of the bus, facing the way the driver faces - correct?

She is walking east on Poynder and it seems most logical that she is on the north side of the street. I'm not really seeing too many homes that would appear to have doorbell cams on the north side, they tend to be more on the south side. And it would be difficult to have a really clear view of her from across the street, especially with scattered passing cars. I guess it would be her green jacket, dark pants, and green shoes that might be more identifiable.

It appears most likely he is also traveling east on Poynder, which would mean he is traveling parallel (or behind her). There is a wide driveway without a curb exactly at the Poyner Court bin enclosure that was intensely searched this week, and he could have fully pulled the car out of the street onto that driveway, not in the traffic lane.

A bus going east down Poynder would catch the vehicle from behind, and the license plate would be possible to read, as well as the two open doors. She would have been to the left of the vehicle, and camera might have been able to see the top of her green jacket.

If the bus was going west, the opposite way, it would be farther from the car, and it might have been a bit more difficult to be sure the passenger door was open.

On the opposite side of the street, there is no curb-cut or driveway to divert the vehicle into without impinging on the street. Both open doors would probably impeded traffic, including a following bus.

I think that whatever happened did happen at that driveway and bin enclosure on the north side of the street.

So why did LE keep going back to Agnes Riley park across the street, at least 3 times before doing the big search across the street?
 
Well, yes they should, seeing as 60% of victims of violent crime are men.

This is not a them vs us situation.

ALL people need to be safe from violence.

Thats' me done for tonight.

ah yes, but who’s committing those crimes against the 60% of male victims? Other men.

If the common denominator in so many crimes was a profession (eg policing) or even a race, I feel like people would be much quicker to name the problem.

The vast, vast majority of all violent crime is committed by men, and we have zero policies, processes, educational programmes or tools designed to actually try and address that fact.
 
I think that is the thing, there would be no legitimate reason to stop her under normal circumstances, but in a lockdown he could have gotten away with a ruse that he could, showed his badge - that would make her stop while her brain processes the situation and he had a chance to bundle her into his car.
But then he's holding the badge, and he'd hardly want to drop that while he grabs her. And she's watching him, so not taken by surprise.

To me, it's more likely she was grabbed just as she had walked past, and had her back to him.

The builders bag could have sat open on the back seat: throw her on it and pull tight.

The side door open because he's doing something inside, on that side of the car.
 
in my mind unmarked police cars are used for undercover crimes or to catch motorists speeding... Hardly think walking alone would require an undercover investigation and I would never expect to be stopped by an undercover police officer for anything other than a serious crime eg drug dealing. Hence why it doesn’t make sense for WC to stop SE under pretense of breaking lockdown rules

In London you get all kinds of unmarked / uncover police. I have friends who have worked like this - usually around the time a big event is on or they have intel on something happening.

I used to install large video screens in shopping centres - I dont need to go into big details but we triggered an alarm going into the wrong service yard and within minutes I was pinned to the floor by 2 officers in plain clothes. I always remember this because most attending officers were in plain clothes. Similar time we also drove down one of the restricted roads (with full authority to do so) and the car that pulled us over was unmarked and plain clothed officers that showed their badge.

Its not uncommon to see them.
 
Most of social media claiming it was a peaceful gathering until the police decided to start dispersing people. No matter who was in the wrong, the images of male police officers being physically aggressive towards women at a gathering to mark violence against a woman by a male police officer are shocking.
I think Cressida Dick will lose her job over this.
 
Now that I think about it, another thing that could have occurred is that he deliberately drove into the kerb near her and she stopped to see if he was ok. Could explain the interest in the forensics on the kerb. He could also then be apologetic and offer a lift home. Just MOO
 
SARAH EVERARD DID NOT GET INTO CAR BY FREE WILL:

"unlawfully and by force took or carried away Sarah Everard against her will" - those are the CPS' words.

If he 'tricked' her into the car, it wouldn't use the word force, because the kidnapping charge can differentiate "by fraud" or "by force".

Police officer accused of abducting and murdering Sarah Everard appears in court
That’s a really good reminder of the language used. Thank you. Changes my speculation about possible use of something like a taser in the car. Perhaps if there is doorcam footage (edited to add that am not sure there was door cam footage as haven’t seen it mentioned again) this might show she did try to get help and was pulled away.
 
I'll repost part of Sarah's friend's words:

If the suspect police officer in custody is eventually tried and found guilty of her murder, then I will hold him alone responsible. I will not be blaming ‘men’ or ‘the police’ for the actions of one individual.

This is not what Sarah would have wanted

With respect to Sarah's friend, and to you, I disagree. Of course the person who murdered SE is the only one responsible for it, that goes without saying. But the culture in which that murderer lives, the culture and society in which women don't feel safe to walk the streets, or go for a night out, or walk to their cars alone, or take their dogs for a walk after dark, or walk to the end of their drive at 10pm to put the bins out, or turn down a stranger's advances, or to be impolite to a strange man, or to travel on public transport alone, or to trust somebody who says they're a policeman - that's a different matter entirely.
 
What's pissed me off is some of these women dressed it up as "Sarah's vigil" when in fact it was just an excuse to attack men/police. I'm pretty sure Sarah would be mortified to have a name put to this event tonight. The media is equally to blame.

Totally inappropriate.
Far too soon.
Not thought through.
Probably made things even worse.
Slow hand clap....

What was totally inappropriate, was the police's handling of a peaceful vigil in Sarah’s memory.
 
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