Found Deceased UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London - Clapham Common area, 3 March 2021 *Arrests* #12

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JumpingFrog

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MOO...The tweet from the press re court hearing said what had happened to SE was "scary".
IMOO...the flashing hazards suggest to me to be staged (to look to others on the road/pavement that someone was momentarily parked up to offload/load the car from the adjacent flats).
Forensics and UV light...the charge of "abduction" (by force?)...the "two figures" on camera...I think accused was laying in the shadows, watching for onlookers, grabbed and incapacitated and bundled (maybe the boot). Just my understanding of wordings...
 

mrjitty

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I hope a parent not charged with a serious crime would be allowed to stay with their children. How awful it must be for those kids taken out of their home and may even be beds in the middle of the night.

She is not charged with anything so she will be back with the kids. They will also get the home back once forensics are finished.
 

gdzoul95

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Jmo
If a struggle had been witnessed by passing cars someone would of come forward by now. I doubt she was chased by the suspect and then dragged back to the car and bundled in, someone would of seen something, even a split second of someone chasing a woman would of been remember by someone now after all the coverage surely?
This wasn't a quite side street she was walking along. She has been caught on plenty of cctv up until she met the suspect.

I agree. I have walked home many times from the Poynders road; It’s not a quiet street at all, and she was in bright clothing. Somebody would of noticed a struggle on Poynders Road surely. Makes me think IMO more that he walked or followed her round to the back of the flats on Poynders road - JMO, maybe he called her for help on the side of the road, put his hazard lights on and opened the passenger door, possibly exposed himself to her, she could of used her phone to take a photo of him or call someone (maybe why he disregarded her phone?) which made him panic and get out the drivers side leaving both doors open to follow her round to the back of the flats? But this is JMO. I’m just struggling to imagine how she was placed in the car without anybody seeing, unless he moved the car to the back of the block of flats. He is a monster whatever way he went about this.
 

asyousay

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MOO...The tweet from the press re court hearing said what had happened to SE was "scary".
IMOO...the flashing hazards suggest to me to be staged (to look to others on the road/pavement that someone was momentarily parked up to offload/load the car from the adjacent flats).
Forensics and UV light...the charge of "abduction" (by force?)...the "two figures" on camera...I think accused was laying in the shadows, watching for onlookers, grabbed and incapacitated and bundled (maybe the boot). Just my understanding of wordings...


This doesn’t make any sense to me. This is a busy main main road. How much time do you exactly think he had?


First of all you don’t stick your hazard lights on when you going to jump somebody as the hazard lights would give it away. This was not on a quiet side road. We also know that the a Camera picked up 2 people by the car. Where does it say the second person was incapacitated?


Logic would say - he pulled over with his hazards on then he engaged with her in some form. He didn’t pull over with his hazards on then run out the car into a bush as quite clearly she would of seen that , he is not exactly small is he? It’s a well lit London road with cars going up and down it. He also wouldn’t be able to park up to far in front of her incase she turned off or went into the flats as he didn’t know she lived there.


Moo
 

Commoner

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Normally I'd agree. But I imagine LE are panicking a bit about this case. Maybe they'd rather throw around a questionable arrest than run the risk of losing time with her (both time in the house while they make arrangements for her, and time interviewing her, just on the off chance she's knows something).



MOO.

I think this is unlikely. Whether or not he's later found guilty, at that stage police had strong suspicion that a Met officer was involved in a serious and repugnant crime and IMO they will have been doing everything by the book to ensure a potential later prosecution does not stumble or even fail on procedural points
 

mrjitty

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This doesn’t make any sense to me. This is a busy main main road. How much time do you exactly think he had?

Also I don't think you can leave your vehicle in traffic with the right side door open for long!

First of all you don’t stick your hazard lights on when you going to jump somebody as the hazard lights would give it away. This was not on a quiet side road. We also know that the a Camera picked up 2 people by the car. Where does it say the second person was incapacitated?


Logic would say - he pulled over with his hazards on then he engaged with her in some form. He didn’t pull over with his hazards on then run out the car into a bush as quite clearly she would of seen that , he is not exactly small is he? It’s a well lit London road with cars going up and down it. He also wouldn’t be able to park up to far in front of her incase she turned off or went into the flats as he didn’t know she lived there.


Moo

Agree - seems logical that the accused pulled up and challenged her
 

Emmalt

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This shortened version leaves out a quirk in the wording, and I was wondering if it's important

"Minutes after Ms Everard’s last confirmed appearance in camera footage from 3 March, the night of her disappearance, the court heard that a bus camera captured two figures on Poynders Road and a white Vauxhall Astra with its hazard lights flashing.
Another bus camera captured the same car with both front doors open.
The registration of the vehicle – later confirmed to be a car hired in Dover – was captured as it left London towards Kent"

a) only the two figures were definitely on Poynders Road
b) buses can come along frequently, but it's normally a few minutes between each - so how long was the car stationary, and where exactly was it?
c) how wide angle is the lens of a bus cam?
d) was the VRN captured for the first time as it left London, or was it captured by buscams and tracked out of London (or a bit of both)?
I've tried looking at the tfl on poynders road for the timing of her disappearance and I can get to 9.30pm and then 9.40pm... not 9.35. We obvs don't know which part of poynders but at the 9.40 time there is a number 50 bus coming down the road. Quite eerie to think at that 9.30 all was ok and 9.40 she was forced into a strangers car.. 10 mins. So scary. Would be good to be able to see the footage on going as opposed to every 5 mins for 10 second clips
 

Cloudybea

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Again obviously just my opinion, please delete if not allowed.

JMO, but as EC was charged at the same time as WC, and it appears that the thing that led them to the accused was the hire car; to me it seems likely that the accused booked it in her name. Lots of places allow someone else who can prove they live at the same address to pick something up. Once CCTV from the bus has been seen and it was clear it was just the accused allegedly, perhaps they were dropped?

Again, just a theory. But thinking about timings etc seems it could have been the case.
 

JumpingFrog

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This doesn’t make any sense to me. This is a busy main main road. How much time do you exactly think he had?


First of all you don’t stick your hazard lights on when you going to jump somebody as the hazard lights would give it away. This was not on a quiet side road. We also know that the a Camera picked up 2 people by the car. Where does it say the second person was incapacitated?


Logic would say - he pulled over with his hazards on then he engaged with her in some form. He didn’t pull over with his hazards on then run out the car into a bush as quite clearly she would of seen that , he is not exactly small is he? It’s a well lit London road with cars going up and down it. He also wouldn’t be able to park up to far in front of her incase she turned off or went into the flats as he didn’t know she lived there.


Moo

I just wondered if the accused staged it as my theory before SE was near (so she couldn't have known someone was lurking). Given that the road is busy, if an (off duty plain clothed?) individual was "questioning" a member of public on the pavement for e.g., surely a person (not just the cameras) saw this exchange? JMO...perhaps the abduction was an escalation from the IE and the accused was waiting for the next woman? MOO...Only speculation. Absolutely puzzling and horrifying, whatever happened.
 

Emmalt

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Jmo
If a struggle had been witnessed by passing cars someone would of come forward by now. I doubt she was chased by the suspect and then dragged back to the car and bundled in, someone would of seen something, even a split second of someone chasing a woman would of been remember by someone now after all the coverage surely?
This wasn't a quite side street she was walking along. She has been caught on plenty of cctv up until she met the suspect.
Someone may have come forward if they saw this and it may not have gone public.

Maybe suspect asked her to sit in car whilst he took details.. or to borrow phone.. and just sped off. I just can't work out what is happening here with hazards then doors open. It's really confusing me
 

merrypason

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I am still struggling to understand the accused’s movements on the day of her kidnap.

At court they disclosed he finished his shift at 7am on 3rd March and was then supposed to be on leave till 8th March. Yet MSM reported he also did a relief shift from 2-8pm on 3rd March.

So what was he doing between 7am - 2pm on 3rd March (if MSM is accurate)? Surely he didn’t drive back to Kent and then back to London after an all nighter. I thought a 11hour rest was mandated between shifts for the Met?

And if MSM wasn’t accurate and he did finish at 7am and didn’t return for a 2pm shift, then why was he back in London that evening? With a hired car? Did he really come back all the way just to assault someone?? That’s a long way to come all the way to Clapham specifically to do that!

I’m also wondering what the motorway cameras captured on his ride all the way back to Kent. Theres a lot of cameras all the way. Does anyone know if the cameras make it possible to see a passenger in the car, in either the passenger or back seat? Because if she was in the car, how did he manage to keep her quiet - if feels like he must have knocked her out with a chemical. He wouldn’t have time to tie her up or bind her, and someone on the roads/motorway would have noticed her in that state in the car.

JMO
 

asyousay

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I just wondered if the accused staged it as my theory before SE was near (so she couldn't have known someone was lurking). Given that the road is busy, if an (off duty plain clothed?) individual was "questioning" a member of public on the pavement for e.g., surely a person (not just the cameras) saw this exchange? JMO...perhaps the abduction was an escalation from the IE and the accused was waiting for the next woman? MOO...Only speculation. Absolutely puzzling and horrifying, whatever happened.



The streets are pretty deserted though because of covid. So I don’t think many people were out that time of night. It doesn’t seem like from the little we heard on Saturday that people saw a exchange between them.



I go with normally the simplest is the right one. He drove past her and saw her in the review mirror and decided to pull over and do something sinister to her. She was alone and vulnerable and the streets are pretty much deserted and the sicko took his chance. MOO
 

Emmalt

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JMO - there does seem to be plenty of video evidence, and in addition to the driver of each bus, there might have been passengers whom might have seen something. When would the police have gained access to the footage, was there a delay?
There was a delay with the buses cctv/dashcams I believe.. i have seen it reported somewhere. As the depot is closed at weekends they had to wait until Monday 8th.. which explains why everything moved so fast after that time. .. if someone can find that report I'd be grateful
 

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brownbread

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Regarding how she was kidnapped:

MSM reporting of the charge sheet says she was ‘kidnapped by force’. My own reading of the crime of kidnap is that it is ‘kidnap (by force or fraud)’ - it’s not two different crimes. So it’s possible that “kidnap by force’ is just slightly sloppy reporting of the charge sheet, I think.

Even if the charge sheet does read ‘kidnap by force’, it doesn’t mean she was necessarily forcibly abducted from the street. Kidnap by force can occur during what started as a ‘normal’ car journey if the driver prevents the passenger getting out - you don’t have to have been kidnapped *into* a vehicle.

We don’t know from what has been revealed from the buscams whether there is any evidence of force. There has been MSM reporting of police sources speculating that the accused may have used warrant card / covid laws to stop her, but this likely impossible for anyone to know unless the accused has revealed this.

My only other thought about what the evidence may have revealed that we don’t know is whether the evidence we know about would have been sufficient for an arrest on suspicion of kidnap. Would it be enough that SE was seen near a vehicle and then never have arrived at her home to accuse the driver of that vehicle of kidnap?
 

Commoner

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the court heard that a bus camera captured two figures on Poynders Road and a white Vauxhall Astra with its hazard lights flashing.

Sarah Everard's body was found in builder's bag and identified with dental records, court hears

It doesn't say the camera caught 2 figures by the car.

It also doesn't say the car was on Poynders Road. That's why I asked inter alia in a previous post if anyone knows how wide angle bus cams are

And also, now I think about , where on the bus they are sited - are they positioned over the doors looking sideways over the pavement, to capture images of those getting on/off, and potentially also capturing stretches of pavement?
 

merrypason

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Regarding how she was kidnapped:

MSM reporting of the charge sheet says she was ‘kidnapped by force’. My own reading of the crime of kidnap is that it is ‘kidnap (by force or fraud)’ - it’s not two different crimes. So it’s possible that “kidnap by force’ is just slightly sloppy reporting of the charge sheet, I think.

Even if the charge sheet does read ‘kidnap by force’, it doesn’t mean she was necessarily forcibly abducted from the street. Kidnap by force can occur during what started as a ‘normal’ car journey if the driver prevents the passenger getting out - you don’t have to have been kidnapped *into* a vehicle.

We don’t know from what has been revealed from the buscams whether there is any evidence of force. There has been MSM reporting of police sources speculating that the accused may have used warrant card / covid laws to stop her, but this likely impossible for anyone to know unless the accused has revealed this.

My only other thought about what the evidence may have revealed that we don’t know is whether the evidence we know about would have been sufficient for an arrest on suspicion of kidnap. Would it be enough that SE was seen near a vehicle and then never have arrived at her home to accuse the driver of that vehicle of kidnap?


My understanding is that for the driver of that car to be arrested for kidnap, there would be need to be evidence of an interaction between them that saw her deviate off her standard course. So just standing by the car wouldn’t be enough, they’d need to see evidence that she and the accused had had some engagement. Even if he for example, told her there were roadworks ahead so she should take another route.
 

Happybunny86

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I don't know if this fits with the two people on CCTV with both car doors open as there is mention of earlier footage of two people but doesn't specify this is Sarah and WC.
However I wondered if WC tried to stage some kind of incident. The only time I've ever seen two police car door flung and left open is when they are in pursuit, coupled with my husband saying he thought most people would be more suspicious of a police officer operating alone. Could he have have made it look like something was underway and for her own safety Sarah should get in the car?
 
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