UK UK - Sheila Le Grys, 25, North Walsham, Norfolk, 7 Dec 1963

Discussion in '1960's Missing' started by Al Ka, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. StarrChance

    StarrChance Well-Known Member

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    I also saw the Ancestry with the name Shelia White, however when you look at the record it appears a Shelia White married a Le Grys (doesn’t seem to show first name)
    There is a Frederick Le Grys public family tree on Ancestry, it has a photo of him. It states that he married Shelia White and she died in Nigeria. Stranger things have happened!
    I think we need a marriage certificate to be sure of the second marriage. Life is getting in the way of sleuthing but will continue in a few days.
     
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  2. jessie

    jessie Well-Known Member

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    I can't supply the certificate, but have these details for the persons married. This 1973 marriage is to a Sheila A White - the 1955 marriage is to a Sheila M I believe.

    Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
    Marriages Mar 1973 (>99%)

    LE-GRYS FREDERICK W B WHITE NORWICH O 4B 1933 [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
    Marriages Mar 1973 (>99%)

    WHITE SHEILA A LE-GRYS NORWICH O 4B 1933 [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
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  3. jessie

    jessie Well-Known Member

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    Needed to enter details in 2 posts sorry. Just showing details of the 1955 marriage.

    Surname
    First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
    Marriages Mar 1955 (>99%)

    LE GRYS Frederick W B RICKETT Edmonton 5e 1034 [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
    Marriages Mar 1955 (>99%)

    RICKETT Sheila M LE GRYS Edmonton 5e 1034 [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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  4. Al Ka

    Al Ka Well-Known Member

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    Wow, I have searched and have not seen that photo or mention of his wife death in Nigeria on Ancestry. Would you be so kind to post a link to that here once you find a time? So we keep all what we find for future evidence/reference here. I will try to search for it too.

    In this other ancestry link about marriage it does actually show initials of couple and while we are not certain it is the same Fred, it does have his initials. I have not found any other person with all 4 initials the same as our Fred. So even though not yet confirmed we can so far assume it is him.

    Name
    Frederick W B Le-grys
    Spouse
    Sheila A White

    (2nd couple in the link)
    Frederick Le Grys - Ancestry.com
     
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  5. jessie

    jessie Well-Known Member

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    Sheila M. would only have been 17 when she married in 1955 (working back from aged 25 when missing in Dec 1963). Very young to get married, would have needed parents' consent of course. Left 3 young children allegedly, youngest less than 2 years old when she disappeared.
    I have been searching for old local newspaper reports or any police details from the time but no luck so far, though there must have been cause to consider homicide.
    Sorry I can't add anything positive atm.

    A 'Presumption of Death' can be applied for when a person has been missing for 7 years :-

    https://www.gov.uk/get-declaration-presumed-death
    You can make a claim for a ‘declaration of presumed death’ from the High Court if someone you know in England and Wales has been missing for:
    • 7 years or more
    • less than 7 years and you think they’ve died, for example they went missing during a natural disaster
    A missing person is not automatically presumed dead.

    You must make a claim for a declaration of presumed death if you want to do certain things, for example deal with their estate.
     
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  6. StarrChance

    StarrChance Well-Known Member

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    Haven’t tried to link from Ancestry public trees before...

    Ancestry - Sign In
     
  7. StarrChance

    StarrChance Well-Known Member

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    Sorry posted twice
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
  8. StarrChance

    StarrChance Well-Known Member

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    Great information, can I ask where you found it?
     
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  9. Al Ka

    Al Ka Well-Known Member

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    Yes, let's post link always when we find anything. I have not even noticed there was not link to marriage details even though I have found similar but without year details.

    StarrChance I did try yesterday to search of the photo you mentioned. Unfortunately even public files do not open for me anymore. I think there is limited amount of views you can do free there or something :(.

    Anyway, search continues.
     
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  10. Al Ka

    Al Ka Well-Known Member

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    I am aware of 7 year rule. Not sure in which years it has started though. Families can apply to declare missing person death, due to settling missing person affairs (mortgages, banks etc), however it is up to coroner of each county/borough to agree or disagree. In many cases in UK it was refused. I have seen one case recently that was refused even after person being missing for over 20 years.
     
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  11. jessie

    jessie Well-Known Member

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  12. jessie

    jessie Well-Known Member

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    That is really interesting @ Al Ka. Can I ask what was the case you know of that was refused?

    I cannot find a Death certificate for Sheila M. I brought up the 7 year rule only as this also Dissolutes a marriage. I am curious as to how F WB Le Grys described his previous marriage when he remarried in 1973? As a widower, as divorced?
    Expect only the full certificate would tell.
     
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  13. StarrChance

    StarrChance Well-Known Member

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    It’s funny that Shelia’s mother married a Frederick (Rickett), she then married a Frederick (Tuttle) and Shelia herself married a Frederick, must have been a popular name!
    Frederick Le Grys married again in 1980 to a Helen M Doughty.
     
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  14. jessie

    jessie Well-Known Member

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    Well spotted StarrC ! Great researching
     
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  15. Al Ka

    Al Ka Well-Known Member

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    I can't remember name of the family in the last case it was refused. I know it was fairly recent review and refusal. In last 2-3 month I think. I will try to search for it.

    Due to this issue many families are petitioning for many years already to change the laws for the longer missing people. Or actually to make a law as there is not one for the missing. Families are in limbo and actually in legal loophole. They can't arrange anything, children affairs of missing parents, mortgages, inheritance, to close bank accounts, credit cards (as it has to be done in person) etc .
     
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  16. Al Ka

    Al Ka Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for finding another extra info. I heard he remarried again, I just did not when and who. Great find.
     
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  17. jessie

    jessie Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if you have heard of the Suzy Lamplugh case? She went missing in 1986. Her father worked hard to have certain changes made to the Law for just the reasons you mention, which I think will come into effect sometime this year.

    There is a pdf with details if you are interested: https://consult.justice.gov.uk/digi...dianshipmissingpersonsact2017consultation.pdf
     
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  18. Al Ka

    Al Ka Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I am aware, thank you. Suzy Lamplugh's case is the reason that main and the biggest charity for missing in UK started to operate - Missing People.

    I see often debates on this topic from families and circulated petitions. Thank you for posting it.

    I have tried to search for the case which was recently refused by coroner to be declared dead. Unfortunately, so far no luck. I know many articles online get rewritten or taken down or maybe it is still out there somewhere.

    Off topic but few days ago Natalie Putt, missing since 2003 has been declared dead. She is missing for 16 years. In Nov of last year Bruce Gapper missing since 1999 was declared dead after 19 years. So it indeed might be difficult process through legalities.

    (Reminding myself not to go off topic again :) and get back to Sheila's case)
     
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  19. StarrChance

    StarrChance Well-Known Member

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    Not sure where else to go with this. I know one rumour was that she left with another pilot...
    I just don’t really see this happening, it’s true women do leave their children but unusual and to my thinking the pilots seemed to know one another, you would think that someone would have known more information if that was the case.
    I would like to know more about the 2nd Sheila death, hopefully the granddaughter looking for information could reach out on the pilot site to ask what they remember?
     
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  20. Al Ka

    Al Ka Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I have mentioned here family rumour that she run away with pilot and very true, pilots do know each other. Maybe not in those years, but nowaydays other pilots could shed any light into this. It sounds like rumour was on Fred's side of family and I think childred did grow up with him. It does not seem there was much if any communication afterword with Sheila's part of family.

    I wonder if due to this rumour missing file was not done for her at that time and case was not investigated straight away. Or if they (probably children) started to ask questions only years or decades later. Unfortunately valuable time was lost like in many other cases.

    From document in 2nd post in this thread, it is clear that police in their files classified this case as possible homicide. There must have some reason for that.

    I wonder which part of UK she was from. I see their wedding was in Edmonton, which points on map somewhere around London. From my brief research it also seem that he had family ties around there and Kensington, London too.

    I can't find yet any location for her or her parents.

    With regards to 2nd Sheila, 2nd wife - I have seen lots of discussions about Nigeria and different bases around there, including photos from '78 in Warri, on pilot board. Way they describe it, it seems dangerous and corrupt place before and even now. Lots of official paperwork in investigations are done but than papework often disappears. Also lots of bases were attacked by locals who are very angry about their own poverty and their oils being pumped away by rich foreigners. Machette and gun attacks were not uncommon.

    Unfortunately I don't believe we could truly know for sure or get any official confirmation what happened to her (2nd Sheila). But there should be some obituary somewhere and also some paperwork if her body was repatriated to UK.

    Only source for some extra answers would be again pilot board - to find out if there was a raid or perhaps something else.

    Just to mention, I have seen one photo from Warri '78 where there were 3 people and one of them was blond, well, white woman. I had eerie feeling that it could be Sheila (as place and year matched). Most of all other photos were always just men and it seemed women/families did not travel with them at work placements abroad.
     
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