Discussion in 'Trials' started by Theomumx14, Oct 22, 2021.
LIVE: Star Hobson murder trial day 26 - Frankie Smith still on witness stand
Thank you, following both Star and Arthur's trials. The lockdown/social work have a lot of questions to answer!
My local news has a report of a two year old dying and two people being arrested for neglect and manslaughter in Essex, very little information available so far
Two arrested on suspicion of child neglect after child, 2, dies
That poor wee angel will hopefully get their own thread once the suspects are named.
I'm not sure if there are more cases than usual, or just me being more aware of it....
The only reason they refused to seek medical help for her was to protect themselves. They are both as bad as each other, very selfish. I don't believe for one second FS had any concerns about Star. Denying every single thing just makes her look like a liar. Biting her finger, causing no harm when she ripped the ticket up... Imagine showing more upset over a ticket than your own child that you carried and gave birth to. I just can't get my head around people like this.
I can’t make up my mind whether I believe FS or if I think she’s just trying to save her own skin.
I don't either, but she is clearly a very callous and selfish person at best - she admits she wanted to go out drinking night after night and therefore handed Star over to SB - now, she claims that at the time she didn't realise all those bruises, wounds, limping, staggering, and misery from the poor child were due to 'abuse', but most mothers wouldn't let such a pathetic, vulnerable mite out of their SIGHT let along to someone she (by her own texts - 'she doesn't get bruised like this when she's with me') had at the very LEAST suspicions of SB's behaviour towards the child.
Are they in court today?
I’ve had a manic two days but will check and link now if I find it!
Sorry for the delay! Todays link
LIVE: Star Hobson murder trial day 27 – Frankie Smith continues to be questioned
I’m in the same boat as you regarding FS, I find myself becoming increasingly frustrated with her answers. Although if it is true that she has issues regarding her ability to process life and is “delayed”, could it be this issues that is presenting on the stand. I don’t know…. I’m still on the fence.
If FS is as dumb as she is making out she should never have been allowed to care for Star. She only agrees that the things she was doing and allowed to happen were wrong after it is pointed out to her how inappropriate they were. If Star hadn't died she would have continued on with her behaviour and Star would have had a life of agony from broken bones and contusions. She was using Star as a pawn between her and S. MOO
Until today, when she seems almost normal, I think Frankie Smith is doing an excellent job of making herself look like a complete simpleton. People on other websites have speculated if she is learning disabled. She is definitely thick, but she is exaggerating it. In the transcripts of police interviews, FS spoke in much longer sentences, with more detail and a greater variety of words. Normal, basically. In court, she comes across as if she can barely string a sentence together. "I don't know" "Not at the time" "No." ad infinitum. She is not giving anything away at all. Her defense team have done a brilliant job if they have coached her to say as little as possible, and to just unceremoniously admit any examples of terrible motherhood that aren't tantamount to causing the death of a child.
For what it's worth though, I don't think that FS is outright sadistic and psychopathic like Savannah Brockhill. I think Frankie loved her baby somewhat, but is incredibly selfish and childish and has low empathy, plus completely lacking parenting ability. By "selfish" I mean it doesn't even occur to her to think about other people's feelings, including her baby. She put's herself first at all times, including when she puts SB first, because SB was what she wanted.
Her scaring her baby reminds me (unfortunately), of myself when I was a child and used to scare my beloved cat with the hoover because she was terrified of it, just for my own amusement. Despite having a phobia myself, despite loving my cat and not wanting to ever hurt her, my empathy was just not developed enough to realise that it was totally wrong and cruel of me.
SB I think is a true psychopath and specifically sought out a much younger (pretty sure Frankie was only 18 when they met) stupider, financially vulnerable girl to control. FS is much more attractive than flabby, plain SB. I can only imagine that SB has that psychopathic charisma/superficial charm going on. Because she doesn't seem to have much else going for her. Also I'm wondering if her aggression was attractive, in the same way that schoolgirls are often attracted to the hardest boys in their class. FS was immature enough to still be impressed by that sort of thing.
I wish we had full transcripts of SB's Anglo-Romani recorded phone calls, because different things are highlighted in different court updates. A lot seems to be missing. Some of the words used I believe would be familiar to many non-gypsies, and would be shocking if people saw the non-translated version, such as "muller" (to beat severely).
From SB's translated conversations, on this link: LIVE: Star Hobson murder trial - Day 15
In the phone calls between Savannah and her sister, Savannah seems to be confessing to murdering Star, and is severely worried about what might be caught on any (as yet unknown) CCTV cameras that might be at the recycling plant, two weeks before Star died. In a later recorded phone call, she now knows there's CCTV, and she seems very specifically worried about the 13th September when she had Star at the recycling plant, because she mentions on the 25th of October she'd been in prison for 4 weeks, and it was 2 weeks before that. That takes us exactly to the 13th of September, when she was indeed recorded hitting Star 21 times. She said she did it inside and outside of the car. In an earlier call she seems to be alluding to attacking Star all over the recycling plant. I think there are many more attacks that weren't captured on CCTV.
SB also admits she's terrified as the police have her phone, and at the recycling plant she was googling what the beating could have done to Star. She really doesn't want to go to trial, for this reason, and would rather take a plea deal. She seems to be under the impression that plea deals work like they do in the US, rather than the minor sentence reductions that are given in this country for pleading guilty. SB's sister advises her to wait and see what evidence they've got before doing that.
SB is asking her sister to clean her car because the "spirit of the dead baby" is in the car. This I'm sure is a euphemism for blood. Because the sister soon did get Savannah's car valeted. Despite this, some of Star's blood was still found. Savannah said she "done something to the mouth/face that day at the park". She says "they will say she's beating up the little "dog" (code for Star I think), it's on camera".
The sister asks SB if the police know she worked at the recycling plant yet, to which SB says she had to tell them. SB's sister seems at one point to suggest of there is anyone SB could talk to at her place of work regarding the CCTV. She seems to be suggesting if there's a possibility of asking if there is someone who can get rid of any recordings for her. When SB is referring back to considering pleading guilty rather than going to trial for murder, the sister advises her to wait and see what they've got. From this and the car being valeted, I think SB's sister should be being charged with tampering with evidence/assisting an offender etc.
I really hope this is enough for SB to go down for murder. IMO FS is not guilty of murder, but of causing or allowing the death of a child.
@squish you mentioned the looks of both Savanna and Frankie. Where did you see a photo of them? Have you got a link to it please?
Horrible thought: I think SB will absolutely thrive in prison. She seems easily able to intimidate people, loves to dominate and to beat people up. I don't believe the idea that nonces, child killers etc get a hard time in prison, I think people just tell themselves that to feel like justice will be done. Weak/vulnerable people and ex-police are the only ones that seem to actually get a hard time inside. SB will get questioned initially but then it will be yesterday's news. And then she'll be in her element.
On post #7 on this link: Savanna Brockhill and Frankie Smith #3
There are many photos of Frankie and some of Savannah with various people. The second pic and the last pic show Frankie and Savannah together. (In both pics Savannah is the one smiling with teeth showing).
^^^^ @squish. .Thanks for the link. Interesting photos.
LIVE: Star Hobson murder trial - Day 28
Sorry late going through some issues and my 2 year old and waste of space dad
Lots and lots of discussion about Frankie's alleged toilet break at the exact time of the fatal assault on her child. It must be awkward those questions coming from a male. The prosecution against FS are making a humungous deal about discrepancies in her accounts of going to the toilet. I understand why, because if she can be shown to be lying, there is doubt cast on whether SB acted alone, or even if she did it at all.
BUt for what it's worth, it comes across to me like FS is telling the truth. She may have embellished the account of her loo break for dramatic efffect to convey her urgency to the police, what with the claiming she jumped up and didn't wipe. She might also have been doing things quickly on autopilot. I know I couldn't remember the exact order I did specific things in my toilet break.
Also, I think there was a lot of time fannying around, not being particularly urgent, both while Star was in the process of dying, and after the paramedics got there. It's perfectly possible that one of the pair put the used pad into the bin/bag of used pads, just as a completely normal bit of tidying. There were other small children still running around.
I don't think it's a big deal.
Psych evaluations coming now. I've been waiting for these.