UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #2

[Crusader21]

I don’t think it’s a bit of a stretch at all, it’s as valid as the other two, and sadly the one I don’t want to be correct.
If it is correct as AL said “you’ll never find her, no body will”.

Indeed. We've the possibility then of SL driving the / a male along Fulham Palace Road at around 2.45pm, never to be seen again.

Her remains could be anywhere ....

 

[Terryb808]

Yep, that's the only reason I can think of for these calls, if genuine - someone wanting to work out by when she might be missed. If not genuine, they support a narrative wherein she never went to the PoW - but mysterious people knew she intended to and must have intercepted her.



Strictly speaking it's less valid. While a business issue with this couple looks plausible given that SJL had apparently welshed on a project with them and he then went bankrupt, we still need to show that either of them was near SJL that day. The problem with that is that we don't know where she actually went. There is evidence she intended to go or went to 37SR or to the pub, but none that indicates she had to go to Stevenage Road, or was meeting anyone there, or indeed meeting anyone at all.

Her car being found there isn't evidence of this, given that it seems likely someone else drove it there. The seat position suggests this, and so does her possessions being left behind. The driver might have delayed the finding of her car by taking these out of it, but a male would attract attention if he walked off carrying a woman's hat and purse.

She apparently had a cancelled appointment with PSS that day, but there's no evidence that it was in fact kept, nor is there any that places the builder husband anywhere near her that day either. If SJL could have been meeting the couple, she could have been meeting anyone at all, on the same evidence, i.e. none, unfortunately.

The trouble with this case is that the absence of officially-endorsed evidence for anything except a visit to 37SR means that any solution you like can be projected onto it. As a result, people have speculated that "Mr Kipper" was Jewish (because a kippah is a Jewish prayer hat), was Fred West because John West because kippers, was the Suffolk Strangler because he'd possibly met SJL, was JC because he might have met SJL, and even that he was Jimmy Savile, because Jimmy Savile was evil.

Part of the reason I favour DV's theory is that SJL was an outstandingly good-looking woman beset by admirers. I have trouble with her simply vanishing unnoticed by anyone; people noticed her everywhere she went. Unless she went from her car into the cellar of a pub, I'd have expected someone to notice her out and about in the streets.

Yes, following the timeline it goes to the PoW, and if closed that day at lunchtime, then as you say no one would have seen her.
Being realistic there’s no evidence she went to SR, Stevenage Road or the PoW, all we know is she left the office (and probably) reached her car in Whittingstall Road.
After that there’s absolutely nothing.
Which is why we need to come up with a theory based on maybe.
While JC appears to be not in the frame, his MO involved car jacking his victims. When done correctly it leaves no trace, he used this several times before he was first jailed.
The local police had no witnesses and could not pin this on him.
Again it’s a long shot, but as valid as the mystery couple.

 

[Terryb808]

Yep, that's the only reason I can think of for these calls, if genuine - someone wanting to work out by when she might be missed. If not genuine, they support a narrative wherein she never went to the PoW - but mysterious people knew she intended to and must have intercepted her.



Strictly speaking it's less valid. While a business issue with this couple looks plausible given that SJL had apparently welshed on a project with them and he then went bankrupt, we still need to show that either of them was near SJL that day. The problem with that is that we don't know where she actually went. There is evidence she intended to go or went to 37SR or to the pub, but none that indicates she had to go to Stevenage Road, or was meeting anyone there, or indeed meeting anyone at all.

Her car being found there isn't evidence of this, given that it seems likely someone else drove it there. The seat position suggests this, and so does her possessions being left behind. The driver might have delayed the finding of her car by taking these out of it, but a male would attract attention if he walked off carrying a woman's hat and purse.

She apparently had a cancelled appointment with PSS that day, but there's no evidence that it was in fact kept, nor is there any that places the builder husband anywhere near her that day either. If SJL could have been meeting the couple, she could have been meeting anyone at all, on the same evidence, i.e. none, unfortunately.

The trouble with this case is that the absence of officially-endorsed evidence for anything except a visit to 37SR means that any solution you like can be projected onto it. As a result, people have speculated that "Mr Kipper" was Jewish (because a kippah is a Jewish prayer hat), was Fred West because John West because kippers, was the Suffolk Strangler because he'd possibly met SJL, was JC because he might have met SJL, and even that he was Jimmy Savile, because Jimmy Savile was evil.

Part of the reason I favour DV's theory is that SJL was an outstandingly good-looking woman beset by admirers. I have trouble with her simply vanishing unnoticed by anyone; people noticed her everywhere she went. Unless she went from her car into the cellar of a pub, I'd have expected someone to notice her out and about in the streets.

Yes, following the timeline it goes to the PoW, and if closed that day at lunchtime, then as you say no one would have seen her.
Being realistic there’s no evidence she went to SR, Stevenage Road or the PoW, all we know is she left the office (and probably) reached her car in Whittingstall Road.
After that there’s absolutely nothing.
Which is why we need to come up with a theory based on maybe.
While JC appears to be not in the frame, his MO involved car jacking his victims. When done correctly it leaves no trace, he used this several times before he was first jailed.
The local police had no witnesses and could not pin this on him.
Again it’s a long shot, but as valid as the mystery couple.

 

[asyousay]

1) We have car jacked at Whittingstall Road

2) She did go to SR and something happened

3) went to POW


If it is option A then the it won’t be solved.

 

[Terryb808]

1) We have car jacked at Whittingstall Road

2) She did go to SR and something happened

3) went to POW


If it is option A then the it won’t be solved.

Agree with all 3, and yes options 1 & 2 are worst case, PoW best for solving the case.

 

[WestLondoner]

How about a poll of what we think?

What happened?

Please only vote once...!

 

[TimFisher1965]

How about a poll of what we think?

What happened?

Please only vote once...!

3 definitely for me

 

[WestLondoner]

Well that poll site's a bit rubbish, there doesn't seem to be a way of finding out the results.....

 

[Terryb808]

How about a poll of what we think?

What happened?

Please only vote once...!

Okay, I'll go with 3, fits the timeline theory.

 

[Terryb808]

Well that poll site's a bit rubbish, there doesn't seem to be a way of finding out the results.....

Didn't check this, knowing the result would certainly help.

 

[Crusader21]

3 for me as well ....

 

[Terryb808]

This survey would be something DV might be interested in?

 

[asyousay]

How about a poll of what we think?

What happened?

Please only vote once...!

how do we know the result?

 

[WestLondoner]

how do we know the result?

I wish I knew!

 

[Bickles]

3 for me

 

[WestLondoner]

Rereading DV this afternoon, he mentions that WJ initially thought the car she saw was silver, not white. Her claim of when she supposedly saw SJL's car was based on her seeing it and then walking to the bank that day to pay coppers into her kids' bank accounts. The plod thought this detail so important they checked with the bank when she was there doing this, and it was 12.49. This means she certainly saw "SJL"'s car in Stevenage Road at a time when it was actually still parked in Whittingstall.

You have to wonder why any attention was paid to this "sighting" at all.

 

[asyousay]

Rereading DV this afternoon, he mentions that WJ initially thought the car she saw was silver, not white. Her claim of when she supposedly saw SJL's car was based on her seeing it and then walking to the bank that day to pay coppers into her kids' bank accounts. The plod thought this detail so important they checked with the bank when she was there doing this, and it was 12.49. This means she certainly saw "SJL"'s car in Stevenage Road at a time when it was actually still parked in Whittingstall.

You have to wonder why any attention was paid to this "sighting" at all.

It seems like the met completely mishandled the case and didn’t a lot of things correctly.
MOO

 

[Terryb808]

It seems like the met completely mishandled the case and didn’t a lot of things correctly.
MOO

Agree with you, they haven’t stopped today, they are still plodding on in the same old way and ignoring possible new leads from DV.

 

[WestLondoner]

So it seems. At minimum you'd think they'd search the PoW, if just to eliminate it. It was one of several places SJL clearly intended to go that day. They searched all the others - 37SR, her flat, even 123 Stevenage where WJ lived. So why not the PoW?

They can't just shrug and say We can't think why harm could have come to her there. That's not good enough. If they searched it and found her, that's when they start wondering how harm came to her there.

As DV writes,

I wanted to know how Suzy’s property came to have been lost there, who came into contact with it and exactly who was at the pub during those two days....the police had made absolutely no effort to understand any of this at the time, and there were no real records aside from what CV, and perhaps KF, his ex, had told the police....the pub could even have been closed because of the handover and the stocktake. Did Suzy visit the pub to collect her lost property during a period when the venue was closed to the general public?

All the police know about what happened at the PoW is what CV told them. He's obviously going to say nothing happened, whether it did or not. I don't follow why they're happy with this.

The plod apparently now believe that there was a second viewing and that it took place in Stevenage Road. There appears to be literally zero evidence of this.

 

[Terryb808]

So it seems. At minimum you'd think they'd search the PoW, if just to eliminate it. It was one of several places SJL clearly intended to go that day. They searched all the others - 37SR, her flat, even 123 Stevenage where WJ lived. So why not the PoW?

They can't just shrug and say We can't think why harm could have come to her there. That's not good enough. If they searched it and found her, that's when they start wondering how harm came to her there.

As DV writes,

I wanted to know how Suzy’s property came to have been lost there, who came into contact with it and exactly who was at the pub during those two days....the police had made absolutely no effort to understand any of this at the time, and there were no real records aside from what CV, and perhaps KF, his ex, had told the police....the pub could even have been closed because of the handover and the stocktake. Did Suzy visit the pub to collect her lost property during a period when the venue was closed to the general public?

All the police know about what happened at the PoW is what CV told them. He's obviously going to say nothing happened, whether it did or not. I don't follow why they're happy with this.

The plod apparently now believe that there was a second viewing and that it took place in Stevenage Road. There appears to be literally zero evidence of this.

They seem to have a thing about anything DV comes up with. Apparently saying he needed to find a golden thread.
As you say a second viewing in Stevenage Road has no golden thread either.
Also how can you have a second viewing when it’s pretty obvious SJL didn’t do the first one.
As pointed out within this thread WJ thought the car she saw parked at approximately 12.30 was silver not white.
This being the case SJL’s car appeared later, I think WJ said she saw it on her return (sometime shortly after 3pm).
If she’s correct this dovetails with the CV narrative and the James Galway man & the taxi.
There’s more circumstantial evidence here than for a mythical second viewing with the not existent M Kipper.