UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #3

[Whitehall 1212]

These sightings are of no value because they came in fourteen years after the fact and after 11 years of press and police speculation that Cannan dunnit. There is simply no way that you suddenly remember something with complete recall of the day, date and time fourteen years later, having forgotten it for fourteen years in between.

If you spent 11, 14 or 36 years telling the public JC kidnapped Shergar, you would be getting a trickle of witnesses who reported having seen JC acting suspiciously with a horse. In fact, I am personally confident that the Mr Kipper sketch looks like Shergar. I am also personally confident he looks like Lod Lucan. Now there's a thought.

They are not of no value if some detail corroborates information known only to the police.

Whilst fourteen years is a long time, I can still recall events from over twenty years ago. It all depends on the specific situation and the reason to remember.

 

[Crusader21]

I agree. Positively identifying someone (after seeing their pic on tv appeals etc), from 14 years is really stretching it!

 

[EddietheEagle]

We should search the Birmingham Mail for articles about house rape from 1979/1980

More original source material would be helpful. Documentary makers would have undoubtably obtained their factual information from some, more basic provenance, possibly/probably police or press.

Did this sequence of rapes end when Canaan was caught for something else or perhaps coincide at a point when he moved away? Maybe he simply evolved his MO and moved on, for whatever reason.

What I find hard to believe is the inference (from the assertion that rape investigation was so poor) that there was no evidence stored to either implicate or point away from Canaan when and if, subjected to more sophisticated technical analysis at a later date.

Does anyone know where Suzy Lamplugh played tennis? Putney tennis club possibly? Or was it just a social meet up at say, the then shale courts in Bishops Park? Again, the sources to the various assertions about playng tennis seem vague.

Another loose end, potentially more significant in my view, is Suzy's diary entry above the fatal appointment. Why would she be involved in biking a contract? Estate agents don't issue contracts. Surely, this is solicitors' work. And why does one diary entry replace the other which is crossed out? Was this an earlier intended meeting point? Did any of her office colleagues thrown any light on these two other diary entries?

 

[asyousay]

I wonder how much work was done to look into her background. The fact her own father said she seemed to be living beyond her means and her property was for sale. It makes you wonder what was going in her personal life besides dumping her boyfriend that weekend we don’t know much.


MOO

 

[Pinkizzy]

More original source material would be helpful. Documentary makers would have undoubtably obtained their factual information from some, more basic provenance, possibly/probably police or press.

Did this sequence of rapes end when Canaan was caught for something else or perhaps coincide at a point when he moved away? Maybe he simply evolved his MO and moved on, for whatever reason.

What I find hard to believe is the inference (from the assertion that rape investigation was so poor) that there was no evidence stored to either implicate or point away from Canaan when and if, subjected to more sophisticated technical analysis at a later date.

Does anyone know where Suzy Lamplugh played tennis? Putney tennis club possibly? Or was it just a social meet up at say, the then shale courts in Bishops Park? Again, the sources to the various assertions about playng tennis seem vague.

Another loose end, potentially more significant in my view, is Suzy's diary entry above the fatal appointment. Why would she be involved in biking a contract? Estate agents don't issue contracts. Surely, this is solicitors' work. And why does one diary entry replace the other which is crossed out? Was this an earlier intended meeting point? Did any of her office colleagues thrown any light on these two other diary entries?

I guess she offloaded the property (Wyfold Rd) to another negotiator or an office junior

 

[Cherwell]

I guess she offloaded the property (Wyfold Rd) to another negotiator or an office junior

Or perhaps the client cancelled the appointment.

 

[EddietheEagle]

And that of course, makes it entirely plausble that she and Canaan were already known to one another.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

I guess she offloaded the property (Wyfold Rd) to another negotiator or an office junior

We have no idea why Wyfold Road was written at the top of the page nor why it was scribbled out.

We could give thought to Wardo Road written below it with the instruction to "take contract" or "bike contract" slightly offset and think that it also applied to Wyfold too but that had been completed.

The straight answer is....we don't know and guessing the detail is never helpful, there has to be some evidential material support it.

 

[EddietheEagle]

We have no idea why Wyfold Road was written at the top of the page nor why it was scribbled out.

We could give thought to Wardo Road written below it with the instruction to "take contract" or "bike contract" slightly offset and think that it also applied to Wyfold too but that had been completed.

The straight answer is....we don't know and guessing the detail is never helpful, there has to be some evidential material support it.

That is precisely where the information obtained from office colleagues comes into play. The interpretation of those entries should have been asked of them, her senior manager in particular, perhaps. Did Andrew Stephen throw any light on this?

There seems to be a paucity of information in the public domain stemming from any questioning of those colleagues. Did a 'Sarah' from the office 'phone the pub in the afternoon enquiring of Suzy's whereabouts, the unnamed Australian receptionist perhaps? That would potentially tidy up one of those loose ends that left such an 'uneasy feeling' in detectives' minds.

 

[EddietheEagle]

I don't understand why the other half of that conundrum regarding the unexplained 'phone calls somehow inextricably regards Suzy Lamplugh. Someone, ostensibly a policeman, calls a pub in the afternoon. So what? Where are the facts to implicate Suzy Lamplugh in that call? The acting landlord provides no qualifying information to indicate the policeman, so-called, was enquiring about Suzy Lamplugh, or no information that we know about anyway. He might have been calling about a lost dog.

 

[EddietheEagle]

Not so. The word bike is formed with three separate strokes of her pen. The letter 'B' one, the letter 'i' and half the 'k' two, then the other half of the 'k' and the 'e' with a final flourish. She then dots the 'i'.

An enlarged picture helps:-

Suzy Lamplugh murder police dig up old back garden of suspect’s mother

EXCLUSIVE: Miss Lamplugh, 25, disappeared in 1986 after showing a 'Mr Kipper' around a house in Fulham and her brother Richard says they want the chance to bury her 32 years on.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Not so. The word bike is formed with three separate strokes of her pen. The letter 'B' one, the letter 'i' and half the 'k' two, then the other half of the 'k' and the 'e' with a final flourish. She then dots the 'i'.

An enlarged picture helps:-

Suzy Lamplugh murder police dig up old back garden of suspect’s mother

EXCLUSIVE: Miss Lamplugh, 25, disappeared in 1986 after showing a 'Mr Kipper' around a house in Fulham and her brother Richard says they want the chance to bury her 32 years on.

www.dailymail.co.uk

That is not my assessment. Compare the formation of the letters 't' in 'Wright' and 'a' in 'Waldemar'.

However, it would be usual to have access to the source document or baseline handwriting style from SJL, for handwriting comparison analysis.

Legitimacy: Handwriting analysis in False Instruments module.....Fraud and Economic Crime Investigation.

 

[EddietheEagle]

That is not my assessment. Compare the formation of the letters 't' in 'Wright' and 'a' in 'Waldemar'.

However, it would be usual to have access to the source document or baseline handwriting style from SJL, for handwriting comparison analysis.

Legitimacy: Handwriting analysis in False Instruments module.....Fraud and Economic Crime Investigation.

The two 't's in "Wright" and "contract" are both similar as are the three 'a's in "Waldemar" and "contract". Minor differences in flourish stem from preceding and postceding leters and whether the writing is continuous or not at that point i.e. whether a letter is fully joined up, haf so or otherwise.

The matter is correct or not on its merits i.e. what is written there on the paper. Office practice is essentially irrelevant to the question.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

The two 't's in "Wright" and "contract" are both similar as are the three 'a's in "Waldemar" and "contract". Minor differences in flourish stem from preceding and postceding leters and whether the writing is continuous or not at that point i.e. whether a letter is fully joined up, haf so or otherwise.

The matter is correct or not on its merits i.e. what is written there on the paper. Office practice is essentially irrelevant to the question.

Do you have specialist knowledge/experience of handwriting analysis?

Believe what it is you want to see. I'll stick with what I know.

 

[Cluesleuth]

I wonder how many of the details on the original index cards were misread when they were entered onto HOLMES?

 

[Whitehall 1212]

I wonder how many of the details on the original index cards were misread when they were entered onto HOLMES?

I hope none although human fallibility of course plays a part, although recognition of that hopefully enables safeguards in the system.

Computer systems: Garbage in, garbage out

 

[Pinkizzy]

Does it matter whether it is "bike" or "take"? The office junior would take the contract anyway and SJL would focus on selling other properties or running an errand.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Does it matter whether it is "bike" or "take"? The office junior would take the contract anyway and SJL would focus on selling other properties or running an errand.

It matters because it may relate to 6d Wyfold Avenue, which could/should have been an address of interest.

No one yet has been able to identify anything in MMS that relates to that scribbled out entry in the diary and it's precise reason for:

1. Being there
2. Being scribbled through

No guesswork required.....hard, solid in print MSM only.

 

[Cherwell]

It matters because it may relate to 6d Wyfold Avenue, which could/should have been an address of interest.
No one yet has been able to identify anything in MMS that relates to that scribbled out entry in the diary and it's precise reason for:
1. Being there
2. Being scribbled through

No guesswork required.....hard, solid in print MSM only.

That will be because the police never disclosed any information about it. Do you think they investigated it?
Maybe it turned out to be a cancelled appointment and therefore not significant.

Guesswork and speculation is all we can do. It's honest. I'm afraid I don't regard MSM as gold standard. Much of what they report is inaccurate or plain wrong.

 

[Pinkizzy]

It matters because it may relate to 6d Wyfold Avenue, which could/should have been an address of interest.

No one yet has been able to identify anything in MMS that relates to that scribbled out entry in the diary and it's precise reason for:

1. Being there
2. Being scribbled through

No guesswork required.....hard, solid in print MSM only.

Have you checked old copies of the Fulham Chronicle for info on 6d Wyfold Av?