UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #5

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a witness seen JC looking through the window of sturgis on a sunday. the office would not be open on a sunday,yet DCI jim dickie believes these BS statements.

Anyways. People looking in estate agents windows of a Sunday afternoon. Who'd a thunk? Or was Sturgis the only estate agent in history of time not to have property details on every square inch of window space?
 
He's supposed to have got away with killing SJL according to some quarters, but yet later he was either too stupid or cocky to hang on to stuff linking him to SB,
Yes, the ineptitude is breathtaking. He went out committing crimes in a vehicle containing a replica gun, lengths of rope, and the tax disc from SB's car. If he'd been pulled over just for having a defective brake light, he'd be off to jail for life. All this just 18 months on from the perfect crime taking SJL, supposedly.

Still, there's that bloke who fourteen years later remembered seeing Cannan's car at lunchtime on Monday 28th July. And that other bloke who fourteen years later remembered seeing him looking in a shop window. With that quality of evidence arrayed against him, the case isn't really in doubt :rolleyes:

It's a pity these people weren't around Stafford. I really wonder what happened to my Brothers In Arms tape. I lost that from the car sometime in '86. If these witnesses lived near me they'd be able to remember where I'd put it.
 
I'm beginning to think that any Crimewatch reconstruction, say asking for witnesses who saw a man with a hat walking down the street 15 years ago, can actually produce those required witnesses?! .....

Then psychology experts can list the (valid) reasons why folks come forward after such high-level prompting.
 
I'm beginning to think that any Crimewatch reconstruction, say asking for witnesses who saw a man with a hat walking down the street 15 years ago, can actually produce those required witnesses?! .....

Then psychology experts can list the (valid) reasons why folks come forward after such high-level prompting.
Absolutely. If Crimewatch said they were looking for a man in a ginger wig wearing striped trousers, long red shoes and a red nose seen in Fulham 37 years ago, carrying SJL under his arm, the sightings would flood in.
 
I do wonder whether other explanations for the seat of the car being so far back have been explored? As a female driver it is not uncommon, having parked, to shove my seat back to change shoes, do my shoes up etc. I don't think it has ever been mentioned that SL took another pair of (maybe) smarter shoes with her for the appointment, but she may have needed to fiddle with the ones she was wearing etc.

As with about 99% of this case, this is just another piece of conjecture, I appreciate!!!
good point regarding seat pushed back.
 
So here's my hypothesis as to what happened.

SJL slept with others while she was with AL, including while he was on holiday. When he got back, instead of the expected ecstatic reunion sex he was looking forward to on the Friday, she blanked him. He did not see her on Friday, nor on the Saturday (when she possibly copped off with someone else), nor on Sunday when she went to the coast (he followed) and back (he followed) without him. This is not how you conduct yourself towards your sole bloke whom you've not seen for 2 weeks. He got the firm elbow on Sunday evening at the PoW, after she had pointedly ignored him all weekend.

Her anxiety to get the diary back was because if the pub somehow had it, it meant AL did not, as it contained stuff she did not need him to know. The items were lost there on the Sunday, not Friday, otherwise it could not have been CV who found it.

AL's self-contradictory accounts of the last weekend (telling a TV doc he and SJL went to the PoW on Friday, telling DV he'd never been there) were to save face; to suggest that he and SJL were still a thing (a recent split would be troublesome to explain to LE given she had just disappeared); and fortuitously, to support the impression of SJL that also happened to suit DL.

On Monday SJL initially arranged to go to the PoW after work. Then a 6pm second-viewing request came in. This was more important, so she rang the pub back and postponed the pickup to just "later". CV's recollections a year later of calls to the pub that afternoon are misrecollections of various conversations he had the following day.

When she left the office, she did not go to 37SR. No trace of her (e.g. her fingerprints) has been confirmed to have been found there. If she went inside with her killer, he could perhaps have avoided touching anything, but someone had to open doors and touch handles and switches. There's no sign she did.

So, as she never went inside 37SR, the woman exiting it via the front door whom HR saw cannot have been her. That identification, and the other "sightings" of her there, originated entirely with the police, or with people coached via TV to echo the police account. HR actually saw SF and MG, who went in and out some hours later, using the keys that SJL did not take. Although he never claimed he had seen SJL, HR's grossly misleading account provided him with years of excitement and attention, provided it kept changing according to what he was being asked to confirm. So the good-looking late-20s Mr Kipper he first described became a podgy 44-year-old Belgian diamond dealer when HR was later shown a photo of one. The sketch of "Mr Kipper" is most likely just a generic 80s yuppie estate agent, such as her boss.

Instead, she went elsewhere by arrangement, with someone she knew (i.e. the BW sighting in FPR is quite likely correct). She was led inside a nearby property - perhaps on the pretence that a sale instruction might be up for grabs - where she was attacked and at some point killed.

The property was one of which the killer had free run - a rented house or ground-floor flat, perhaps abutting waste ground; maybe a house the killer had bought and was converting into flats. The killer next ditched her car at about 4pm; the sightings of her car outside 123SR before then are all spurious. He then went back to that property. She may still have been alive at this point. She is probably under a floor or a patio somewhere in west London; Ladbroke Grove, Shepherds Bush - somewhere like that. If you take up the floorboards of a house built 100 years or more ago, you will find a space under the floor, and then the dirt it was built on, a couple of feet below. Some such houses have hatches let into the floor so you can inspect water pipes etc underneath without taking up the floor.

The property passed soon after into others' hands, its condition unremarkable. The current occupants know nothing.

The initial police inquiry failed because it focused on identifying everyone SJL knew who was in Fulham that afternoon. This did not work for three simple reasons. One, they did not remotely identify everyone she knew, due to how she compartmentalised her acquaintances. Two, she herself wasn't in Fulham that afternoon. Three, they had asserted - in advance of knowing the facts - that she went to Shorrolds. Consequently, anyone who might have thought they had seen her anywhere else would have been put off reporting this, because it couldn't have been her.

The second inquiry failed because its ToR were to implicate or exonerate Cannan, to which end JD solicited sightings by the public of Cannan, fourteen years ex post. Its approach was to repeat the previous investigation, with Cannan lobbed in as a suspect. Once it reached the same conclusion about everyone in Fulham as the first investigation, and having prompted a lot of spurious coached "sightings" of Cannan, that only left Cannan, so QED; he must have done it. This, of course, fails the Ronald McDonald test (but is consistent with contemporary police procedure, e.g. Rachel Nickell, Jill Dando). Cannan had nothing to do with it, which is why zero evidence against him has ever emerged.

I have no idea who the killer was. It was someone she knew well enough to go off with alone, who had access to empty property she would enter without demur, who needed to kill her, and who he knew in advance he was going to do so and planned accordingly. The motive for killing her could be her knowledge of some sort of property fraud; his jealousy of not being the only man she was sleeping with; rage at the money she'd cost him by welshing on a deal (if there's a TS connection); or simply a need to avoid prosecution after raping her.

Purely MOO but aligns with or explains pretty well all the known facts...
 
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So here's my hypothesis as to what happened.

SJL slept with others while she was with AL, including while he was on holiday. When he got back, instead of the expected ecstatic reunion sex he was looking forward to on the Friday, she blanked him. He did not see her on Friday, nor on the Saturday (when she possibly copped off with someone else), nor on Sunday when she went to the coast (he followed) and back (he followed) without him. This is not how you conduct yourself towards your sole bloke whom you've not seen for 2 weeks. He got the firm elbow on Sunday evening at the PoW, after she had pointedly ignored him all weekend.

Her anxiety to get the diary back was because if the pub somehow had it, it meant AL did not, as it contained stuff she did not need him to know. The items were lost there on the Sunday, not Friday, otherwise it could not have been CV who found it.

AL's self-contradictory accounts of the last weekend (telling a TV doc he and SJL went to the PoW on Friday, telling DV he'd never been there) were to save face; to suggest that he and SJL were still a thing (a recent split would be troublesome to explain to LE given she had just disappeared); and fortuitously, to support the impression of SJL that also happened to suit DL.

On Monday SJL initially arranged to go to the PoW after work. Then a 6pm second-viewing request came in. This was more important, so she rang the pub back and postponed the pickup to just "later". CV's recollections a year later of calls to the pub that afternoon are misrecollections of various conversations he had the following day.

When she left the office, she did not go to 37SR. No trace of her (e.g. her fingerprints) has been confirmed to have been found there. If she went inside with her killer, he could perhaps have avoided touching anything, but someone had to open doors and touch handles and switches. There's no sign she did.

So, as she never went inside 37SR, the woman exiting it via the front door whom HR saw cannot have been her. That identification, and the other "sightings" of her there, originated entirely with the police, or with people coached via TV to echo the police account. HR actually saw SF and MG, who went in and out some hours later, using the keys that SJL did not take. Although he never claimed he had seen SJL, HR's grossly misleading account provided him with years of excitement and attention, provided it kept changing according to what he was being asked to confirm. So the good-looking late-20s Mr Kipper he first described became a podgy 44-year-old Belgian diamond dealer when HR was later shown a photo of one. The sketch of "Mr Kipper" is most likely just a generic 80s yuppie estate agent, such as her boss.

Instead, she went elsewhere by arrangement, with someone she knew (i.e. the BW sighting in FPR is quite likely correct). She was led inside a nearby property - perhaps on the pretence that a sale instruction might be up for grabs - where she was attacked and at some point killed.

The property was one of which the killer had free run - a rented house or ground-floor flat, perhaps abutting waste ground; maybe a house the killer had bought and was converting into flats. The killer next ditched her car at about 4pm; the sightings of her car outside 123SR before then are all spurious. He then went back to that property. She may still have been alive at this point. She is probably under a floor or a patio somewhere in west London; Ladbroke Grove, Shepherds Bush - somewhere like that. If you take up the floorboards of a house built 100 years or more ago, you will find a space under the floor, and then the dirt it was built on, a couple of feet below. Some such houses have hatches let into the floor so you can inspect water pipes etc underneath without taking up the floor.

The property passed soon after into others' hands, its condition unremarkable. The current occupants know nothing.

The initial police inquiry failed because it focused on identifying everyone SJL knew who was in Fulham that afternoon. This did not work for three simple reasons. One, they did not remotely identify everyone she knew, due to how she compartmentalised her acquaintances. Two, she herself wasn't in Fulham that afternoon. Three, they had asserted - in advance of knowing the facts - that she went to Shorrolds. Consequently, anyone who might have thought they had seen her anywhere else would have been put off reporting this, because it couldn't have been her.

The second inquiry failed because its ToR were to implicate or exonerate Cannan, to which end JD solicited sightings by the public of Cannan, fourteen years ex post. Its approach was to repeat the previous investigation, with Cannan lobbed in as a suspect. Once it reached the same conclusion about everyone in Fulham as the first investigation, and having prompted a lot of spurious coached "sightings" of Cannan, that only left Cannan, so QED; he must have done it. This, of course, fails the Ronald McDonald test (but is consistent with contemporary police procedure, e.g. Rachel Nickell, Jill Dando). Cannan had nothing to do with it, which is why zero evidence against him has ever emerged.

I have no idea who the killer was. It was someone she knew well enough to go off with alone, who had access to empty property she would enter without demur, who needed to kill her, and who he knew in advance he was going to do so and planned accordingly. The motive for killing her could be her knowledge of some sort of property fraud; his jealousy of not being the only man she was sleeping with; rage at the money she'd cost him by welshing on a deal (if there's a TS connection); or simply a need to avoid prosecution after raping her.

Purely MOO but aligns with or explains pretty well all the known facts...
Well summarised, what is interesting is it’s similarities to the 1943 murder of the women in the tree.
When I say similarities I mean that if JC actually did it, he had at least 12 months before the police started to look for evidence of his involvement.
In the women in the tree case, she was not discovered for at least 18 months, this gave the police a big headache because of the elapsed time.
No witnesses, and 80 years later despite much effort, no victim ID.
Again, like JC the police eventually found a suspect and like JC this suspect was highlighted some 12 years later. In this case all the police files have been released to the public. But as you can imagine they don’t help.
The SJL case is now 37 years old, with those involved getting older and in some cases passing away.
By the time (if ever) the case files are released, anyone with enough knowledge to actually crack this case will have no chance.
Maybe that’s the LE goal, give no one else a chance when they failed?
 

This might be an interesting watch, it certainly has some parallels to the Suzy Lamplugh case.

One in particular is something #WestLondoner has highlighted and that’s if the police tell the public where their focus is (in Suzy’s case Shorrolds Road), then the public think what they saw elsewhere must be wrong.
Sadly like some other cases it appears the police know who’s responsible, but they’re never going to be brought to justice and Nicola’s family will never see closure.
All in all, very sad.
 
SJL was seen with a man on Stevenage Road and in Bishops Park.
 
SJL was seen with a man on Stevenage Road and in Bishops Park.
My thoughts on this are that no one outside of the Fulham area would have responded.

For example Putney or Acton, DV and the Prince of Wales narrative, JC and Wormwood Scrubs for the Mets narrative.
 
Yes, the police were very interested in "sightings" in the areas where they had witnesses they believed. Sightings elsewhere, even when made by people who actually knew SJL, were dismissed, as were sightings in the right area by people describing the wrong suspect. Jesus Inchada, the Spanish schoolteacher, described someone different to HR's Mr Kipper, and other Shorrolds witnesses again talked about two Fiestas and two men in a dark car. None of these sightings is ever mentioned in TV documentaries so the casual viewer has no idea how cherry-picked the Kipper sightings really were.
 
Yes, the police were very interested in "sightings" in the areas where they had witnesses they believed. Sightings elsewhere, even when made by people who actually knew SJL, were dismissed, as were sightings in the right area by people describing the wrong suspect. Jesus Inchada, the Spanish schoolteacher, described someone different to HR's Mr Kipper, and other Shorrolds witnesses again talked about two Fiestas and two men in a dark car. None of these sightings is ever mentioned in TV documentaries so the casual viewer has no idea how cherry-picked the Kipper sightings really were.
Yes, they did cherry pick, early on they bought into the Shorrolds Road Mr Kipper and focused on this.
In the unlikely event that they actually caught Mr Kipper they needed as many independent witnesses as possible (to satisfy the CPS).
The lack of these witnesses must have been a big reason the CPS didn’t go to court with John Cannan. This and the fact that he’d already been condemned by the media.
Regardless of any guilt, any trial would have failed.
RT highlighted the two Fiesta’s, and EH the men in the large dark coloured saloon. There must have been something suspicious about these two men for an old lady to have actually noticed them.
Of interest is the fact that John Cannan’s friend who owned the red Ford Sierra lived just 5 minutes from Shorrolds Road. Another one of the many coincidences.
 
I'm interested in whether the friend resembled any of the witness descriptions, and who his other criminal associates were besides Cannan. How many other rapists was he mates with?
 
History Repeats Itself

In the case of Suzy Lamplugh it certainly appears the history has a habit of repeating itself.
Diane Jones was murdered in 1982, her lifestyle was similar to Suzy in that she liked men and was promiscuous.
Suzy Lamplugh was murdered in 1986, four years to the month after Diane Jones. And if we believe the media, she was also promiscuous.
Then in 2009 Claudia Lawrence disappeared and certainly murdered, again if the media is correct, she was also promiscuous.

Seems their lifestyle choice came with a heavy price attached. Websleuths has a page of all three, Diane Jones case is interesting because it seems open and shut. However, there’s another suspect in her case that goes almost unnoticed.

So is it history repeating or a case of an inevitable outcome based on the lifestyle choice?
 
Maybe they were just more extrovert ladies and therefore come into contact with more people and so have more chance of meeting a bad ‘un.
 
Maybe they were just more extrovert ladies and therefore come into contact with more people and so have more chance of meeting a bad ‘un.
They inevitably did meet a bad un, I think Suzy was most definitely an extrovert, Diane Jones was a woman with problems and this one way or another resulted in her death.
Claudia Lawrence I can’t make my mind up on, if you believe all the media stories (and I know you can’t) she had a complex lifestyle.
When you look at the facts, lifestyle plays a big part.
 
They inevitably did meet a bad un, I think Suzy was most definitely an extrovert, Diane Jones was a woman with problems and this one way or another resulted in her death.
Claudia Lawrence I can’t make my mind up on, if you believe all the media stories (and I know you can’t) she had a complex lifestyle.
When you look at the facts, lifestyle plays a big part.

I think it's possible leaning towards victim blaming to speak towards lifestyle -but- at the same time one can clearly see there are 'vulnerability factors'.

Most women who are murdered are killed by their partner. If a woman is having multiple secretive relationships, that puts them at higher risk of being murdered by a partner or some form of liaison that no-one knows of, also raised even more due to possible jealousy. So, having multiple relationships and being secretive are two huge vulnerability factors.

Other people are murdered over business deals gone wrong or by financially exploitative crooks. So being involved in estate agency, possibly having secret negotiations not declared to one's employer, potentially investing in a business plan with someone gone wrong. More vulnerability factors relating to money, shady business, and being secretive.

Multiple romantic / sexual relationships + secretive + involved in big money financial arrangements + secretive.

Maybe drinking a lot and / or using / buying any type of drug (ie knowingly interacting with criminals) would add extra vulnerabilities. As well as being out and about socialising, maybe in bars, pubs, clubs where one doesn't necessarily know the other people in the environment - more vulnerability factors could be 'simply coming to the attention of a wrong'un' as said above.

JMO MOO
 
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