UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 July 1986

[Pinkizzy]

Too many unreliable witnesses are linked to this case.

 

[Terryb808]

I have no link; it was stated in DV's book.

Unfortunately as stated in DV’s book JC’s alibi wasn’t confirmed, and both his mother & sister have since passed away.
If this was checked out at the time somewhere buried in the files will be a police report. However, given that JC is the Mets prime suspect I can’t see anyone looking for it. What goes against JC is his tendency to deliberately misquote fact and mix up days when he’s being questioned.
His nickname in prison is “billy liar”, can’t confirm this, but it’s been put about social media for a while now.
All in all 35 years after the event time is running out to solve this as DV has said a few times.

 

[WiseOwl]

Too many unreliable witnesses are linked to this case.

Witnesses are notoriously unreliable, no matter how sincere they mean to be. Also the original investigation was nowhere near as thorough as it could have been.

Most of the posters on this thread have been asking questions that should have been asked 35 years ago.

Then again, hindsight is a wonderful thing!

 

[Terryb808]

Witnesses are notoriously unreliable, no matter how sincere they mean to be. Also the original investigation was nowhere near as thorough as it could have been.

Most of the posters on this thread have been asking questions that should have been asked 35 years ago.

Then again, hindsight is a wonderful thing!

Agree, however, I learned a long time ago that when you question someone you have to check what they say yourself. You can’t take it as fact because as you say witnesses are unreliable.
Yes hindsight is great, however, a lot of what posters are saying definitely should have been done at the time.
Long before DV released his book he said “just follow the timeline”. If you do this it leads to the PoW and the landlord. Two Met officers were concerned about what the landlord had said, but no one listened to them.
While it may have gone nowhere, it should have been followed up.
What went on the office on the Monday morning was also overlooked, this should have been studied rather than taking it as a fact that Mr Kipper was real.

 

[Crusader21]

Thanks Terry. We've also in to that mix, Diana Lamplugh.

An absolutely awful predicament for any mother to find themselves in. But did Diana's influence impede and hinder the police investigation?

The fact that she questioned Wendy James before the police did is a good example of how she was.

Also was Diana used, manipulated by others to point finger at Canaan? Meaning that the case was evolving to fit the Canaan narrative rather than to find out what actually happened that day?

 

[Terryb808]

DV proved that Wendy Jones was far from reliable about when SL’s car actually appears in Stevenage Road. Others in this thread have pointed out that all Sturgis job cars were white, so it’s possible that Barbara Whitfield spotted one of the other Sturgis cars.
Apparently JC’s sister was convinced he killed SL and maintained this stance all through her life. So it’s unlikely she would have provided him with an alibi.
If you add this to JC’s method of picking another entirely unrelated days events and using them for the day he needs an alibi for and you’re left with the conclusion that he actually doesn’t have one for Monday 28th July.
I can see why the Met are fixated on JC, his MO make him a perfect suspect. Starker, car jacking in broad daylight, rape in broad daylight and murder, all with no real alibi.

 

[Pinkizzy]

JCs lack of alibi means the police cannot prove or disprove it. It also makes him look guilty of SLs murder

 

[Terryb808]

JCs lack of alibi means the police cannot prove or disprove it. It also makes him look guilty of SLs murder

Well if you look at it from the Mets point of view he’s a very good suspect. Especially if during his 6 months on the pre-release scheme he murdered Sandra Court, he deserves the prime suspect status.

 

[WiseOwl]

For those who have watched the Crimewatch episode from October 1986 which includes Suzy's disappearance, does anyone think that Suzy's manager at Sturgis Mark Gurdon bears a resemblance to John Cannan?

I wondered if some of the earlier reports of a man looking like Cannan seen in Shorrolds road and also outside the estate agents were in fact Gurdon? After all he did go to Shorrolds road at 4.30 on the afternoon Suzy disappeared to see if she might be there - is it possible one or two eyewitnesses described him?

In later years when the police were reviewing the case and looking back at the eyewitness descriptions of the man seen in Shorrolds Road, could they be looking at descriptions not of Cannan but of Gurdon instead?

Check him out at 24.20 on the show:

 

[Terryb808]

For those who have watched the Crimewatch episode from October 1986 which includes Suzy's disappearance, does anyone think that Suzy's manager at Sturgis Mark Gurdon bears a resemblance to John Cannan?

I wondered if some of the earlier reports of a man looking like Cannan seen in Shorrolds road and also outside the estate agents were in fact Gurdon? After all he did go to Shorrolds road at 4.30 on the afternoon Suzy disappeared to see if she might be there - is it possible one or two eyewitnesses described him?

In later years when the police were reviewing the case and looking back at the eyewitness descriptions of the man seen in Shorrolds Road, could they be looking at descriptions not of Cannan but of Gurdon instead?

Check him out at 24.20 on the show:

Good call, would explain why Harry Riglin said later the police got the photo fit all wrong. I wonder if it was him did he took a female with him?

 

[WiseOwl]

Good call, would explain why Harry Riglin said later the police got the photo fit all wrong. I wonder if it was him did he took a female with him?

It's interesting you say that as in the reconstruction on Crimewatch it showed Mark Gurdon and another man (presumably Nigel Hindle) going to Shorrolds Road to see if Suzy was still at the property. However I wonder if it was actually the secretary Stephanie Flower who went with Gurdon that afternoon?

Another odd thing is that there were reports of sightings of a man and a women outside 37 Shorrolds road around lunchtime, yet there is no reports of anyone seeing the estate agents apparently knocking the door, peering through the windows and (presumably) shouting Suzy's name around 4.30 that afternoon.

Surely this should of attracted more attention than a couple merely standing outside the property?

 

[Crusader21]

Wise owl, a few people have said over the years that Gurdon resembled the photofit.

Very interesting suggestion that it may have been him (and Stephanie Flower) at 4.30 ish, that Harry Riglin saw and recounted to the police.

 

[Terryb808]

Wise owl, a few people have said over the years that Gurdon resembled the photofit.

Very interesting suggestion that it may have been him (and Stephanie Flower) at 4.30 ish, that Harry Riglin saw and recounted to the police.

This would mean that it wasn’t PSS & TS outside 37 Shorrolds Road that Harry Riglin saw and gets over the question of how they knew SL was going to Shorrolds. Plus as you previously mentioned “why meet there and not at a pub or restaurant”.

 

[Terryb808]

If WiseOwl is correct then 37 Shorrolds is completely out and the entire police Mr Kipper narrative is wrong and has been a costly mistake.
This leaves us with our two possibilities.

1. Suzy went to the PoW pub.
2. She was car jacked in Whittingstall Road when she got to her car.

DV obviously thinks it’s option 1, but with JC being such a list option 2 is equally possible.

 

[Crusader21]

If WiseOwl is correct then 37 Shorrolds is completely out and the entire police Mr Kipper narrative is wrong and has been a costly mistake.
This leaves us with our two possibilities.

1. Suzy went to the PoW pub.
2. She was car jacked in Whittingstall Road when she got to her car.

DV obviously thinks it’s option 1, but with JC being such a list option 2 is equally possible.

That would be the only two senarios that I can realistically see happening. I'd be 60/40 probability wise ....

Also Terry, most followers of this case wouldn't have a clue who 'PSS and TS' are! For those who don't, they are mentioned in the 1988 Stephens book as a couple who were Suzy's friends, especially the female half of the two.

And there's a 'school of thought' that the 'blonde lady' and 'good looking well-dressed man' seen at No37, was this couple and not Suzy and 'Mr Kipper' ....

 

[Terryb808]

That would be the only two senarios that I can realistically see happening. I'd be 60/40 probability wise ....

Also Terry, most followers of this case wouldn't have a clue who 'PSS and TS' are! For those who don't, they are mentioned in the 1988 Stephens book as a couple who were Suzy's friends, especially the female half of the two.

And there's a 'school of thought' that the 'blonde lady' and 'good looking well-dressed man' seen at No37, was this couple and not Suzy and 'Mr Kipper' ....

I did think that most would not know who they were and as you say they’re mentioned in the Stephen book. Again a lot of people will not have a copy of this book as it’s out of print.
You know why we can’t mention names and have to use initials, our last thread was zapped completely, probably because of the names mentioned in the thread.
So it’s important to stick to initials, apologies if you are all aware of this, just thought I’d mention it.
This is an excellent thread and it would be a shame to loose it.

 

[Bohobird]

This would mean that it wasn’t PSS & TS outside 37 Shorrolds Road that Harry Riglin saw and gets over the question of how they knew SL was going to Shorrolds. Plus as you previously mentioned “why meet there and not at a pub or restaurant”.

Who’s Ts? Sorry for not knowing

 

[Bohobird]

Who’s Ts? Sorry for not knowing

Whoops just read you can only put initials ‍

 

[Officer Dibble]

For those who have watched the Crimewatch episode from October 1986 which includes Suzy's disappearance, does anyone think that Suzy's manager at Sturgis Mark Gurdon bears a resemblance to John Cannan?

I wondered if some of the earlier reports of a man looking like Cannan seen in Shorrolds road and also outside the estate agents were in fact Gurdon? After all he did go to Shorrolds road at 4.30 on the afternoon Suzy disappeared to see if she might be there - is it possible one or two eyewitnesses described him?

In later years when the police were reviewing the case and looking back at the eyewitness descriptions of the man seen in Shorrolds Road, could they be looking at descriptions not of Cannan but of Gurdon instead?

Check him out at 24.20 on the show:

Good point. He could look similar if not up close. That could well have been a red herring sighting.

 

[Crusader21]

Someone previously mentioned along the lines of it's extremely unlikely that the acting landlord would have attacked Suzy on his first day in sole charge of the pub.

I wonder however did he know her when he was training up in the Prince of Wales. However, Adam said it wasn't a place he (and maybe Suzy) frequented.

Did the acting landlord perhaps visit Sturgis? Maybe with a view at looking to rent a flat in the locality? Was he on their books / a client perhaps of Suzy's?