UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #2

Discussion in 'Recently Sentenced and Beyond' started by nursebeeme, Aug 10, 2012.

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  1. nursebeeme

    nursebeeme Registered User

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    New Thread for Tia. Please Continue Here:

    Welcome to all new members and guests who are reading here. Please remember that all links posted here must be main stream media. This can include msm tweets and facebook. Any rumors need to stay away as that is not how we roll here.
     
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  3. Jackalyn

    Jackalyn New Member

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  4. soozieqtips

    soozieqtips Owned by a cat...

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    I'm still awake with a raging tooth abscess and can't sleep :-(

    The Standard has updated its timeline:

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/tia-sharp-developments-as-they-unfold-8014761.html

    I'd forgotten that Hazell had a biological daughter, but 'didn't see her'. No mention of her age or the mother or anything, but I expect we'll hear something from her later. I bet she's thinking what a lucky escape she had (if it turns out that Hazell was involved in Tia's death).

    It made me think of something I read recently where a woman got involved with a seemingly charming man who had children, but didn't see them... claiming that his ex-wife made it difficult - and then it was discovered he was a paedophile and had served time in prison. Was Hazell trying to recreate the family life he'd lost? And why did he lose it?

    His dad maintained that he'd 'really turned his life around and that family meant everything to him' - which just goes to show how easily it is to be fooled if you want to be fooled.

    Finally, I wonder how often Gran did overnight shifts at the carer's home where she worked, while leaving Tia alone with Hazell.
     
  5. nursebeeme

    nursebeeme Registered User

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    Have we ever heard if Grandma checked on Tia when she got home from work in the morning or did she just go to bed?

    I am thinking something happened Thursday night while she was at work myself.

    Suzi, I hope your tooth is feeling better!
     
  6. Foxymona

    Foxymona New Member

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    shocked reading this in the news- how is it possible her body was in the house the past week? Feel awful for the family :(
     
  7. shefner

    shefner Websleuth Member

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    I agree, Foxymona....didn't the officers check the house initially? Is it possible the body was moved? I really don't understand.
     
  8. Crazy Mama

    Crazy Mama New Member

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    I thought thaT the grandma got in after 2pm, and by then Tia had already left to Whitgift to buy her flip-flops (of course, we now know that she didn't).
     
  9. Foxymona

    Foxymona New Member

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    They checked the house THREE times- with dogs- speculation the poor child was in the attic- and as it's terraced housing maybe in the attic of the neighbour's house... I'm so angry about this. there is no reason a young girl should have to die because of some complete ******* that they all apparently trusted. How must the parents feel after sticking up for him recently... and Tia's grandmother? I hope they throw the book at him. They won't though...
     
  10. cluciano63

    cluciano63 Active Member

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    If indeed she was there all the time, and they should be able to tell, LE will take a lot of heat for this. It is not the first time this has happened, but it is never acceptable. When the victim is a child, all bets should be off as far as searching, IMO. Apologies can be made later. Any family that objects to a thorough search should be investigated even more. What I cannot imagine is, knowing police are searching the house, knowing her body is there (someone knew, at least.) How on earth do you manage to get through that without confessing? You have to be a monster. And then when LE leaves, not having found her...you just leave her there? And go about your business?

    My mind is boggled.
     
  11. nursebeeme

    nursebeeme Registered User

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    From the links I read the first check was done of the bedroom with just officers... they then brought in "sniffer dogs" on wednesday (after they could not find her on 800 hours of video they reviewed or in woods, trashcans, etc along the route that Hazel told them she took)... sniffer dogs are most likely not HRD dogs

    Today they brought in the HRD dogs and found her. (third search of the house)
     
  12. shefner

    shefner Websleuth Member

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    Gosh....this is just heartbreaking. Heartbreaking.
     
  13. cocomod

    cocomod Active Member

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    A little bit of the same thing happened with little Carnel. However the family stated in that case that the dogs kept indicating that he never left the house, but they continued to search elsewhere anyway. It is hard to understand, but mistakes are made; and I am glad that they were found and that the perp is caught.
     
  14. nursebeeme

    nursebeeme Registered User

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  15. Leilei

    Leilei Blue Star Mom Times Two

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    I've been following this, but haven't commented until now. I am just floored by this whole thing. A body, in the same house where there were interviews held, where law enforcement and canines investigated, a step-grandfather arrested while supposedly buying booze, after media interviews and conflicting stories, yet asking people if they'd seen Tia, mother (and former gf of the POI) nowhere to be found (was she found?), and Grandma seemingly clueless to all of the above? Plus those awful FB rumors... lord have mercy, what a tragic, horrible mess.

    What on earth happened in that house? And how long was it going on? Who knew, and if they did know, why was nothing done? And why was this body (presumably Tia) not found during the first couple of days? I just don't know who to look at, who to blame. If this was a "family matter", then I will note this as one of the worst cases I've followed here. I don't want to bash law enforcement, but, really? Small house, not much hiding room... ugh, my head is just spinning and my heart is hurting for this lovely young lady.

    Hoping for more information soon. Bless you, Tia... if this is indeed you, I hope that whoever is responsible is given the max over in the UK. If it isn't Tia, well, I hope the same. Just awful :(
     
  16. nursebeeme

    nursebeeme Registered User

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    there was once a case of a missing man in the US... he was last seen in his store.. (sorry I cannot recall the exact case but give me a bit for some recall for a link)... dogs searched for him, people searched for him, and he was later found inside the ceiling tiles of the store and he had committed suicide. Not saying that this is case.. just pointing out the fact that if a body is hidden (earlier link I posted said they took in ladders and there was speculation the body was recovered from the loft) that the earlier search dogs, the sniffer or tracking dogs, would not have traced a fresh and live scent up there.. only HRD dogs would have tracked that scent if he hid the body.
     
  17. Dion

    Dion New Member

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    This puts me in mind of the Annie Le case. She was a medical student who was killed by a lab technician. The surveillance cameras showed her going into the lab, but not coming back out. However, when they searched the lab, they found no sign of her. It wasn't until some time later that they eventually found her body crammed into a vent.

    So, if a person is small, they can fit into a seemingly very small space.

    The daily mail reported the following (regarding the grandmother's house):

    This raises the possibility of SH removing some bricks to temporarily store Tia's body in the attic space next door. I hope not, as I would imagine that it would really freak the neighbours out, if they thought that she was actually in their house all that time.
     
  18. Jackalyn

    Jackalyn New Member

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    This does remind me of the Rachel Nickell case - maybe just because I did see her body taken out of the house and also it happened actually in a street close to where I lived. Again the body was not found on the first search. It makes me wonder if there is not some kind of procedure for searches that means what is done on the first search is not as thorough. In that case the body was also there and it was also found but after other searches. John Tanner, the boyfriend and then murderer also gave public interviews.

    My guess is that it is costly to do a forensic sweep and it takes time to gather together those who can do it. That could mean that the police suspected the body was there and that is why they kept going back but there was a delay to set up the forensic search.

    it would also give time for inconsistencies in a story to emerge -as did happen. It would be hard to get those without public statements so to speak. I actually wonder if the delay was strategic- though how they let Hazell out of sight is just beyond belief.

    However we must bear in mind that actually given there is a 24 hour period they can keep Hazell for questioning and tha is not up yet (they could not get an extension,) Hazell has not yet been charged as far as we know.

    Was the body there all along? I am not sure.

    It would be possible to move a body by removing some of the wall or it may even be a situation where the walls are very thin. Those houses are cheap built and I can see a situation where the body was moved. Unlikely, I guess, but I am just saying it is possible. I suspect that the ' determining how long the body has been there ' statements made by police is because they are wondering how they could have missed it. This is a tiny house and badly built and to be honest there is not a lot of space to hide a body in them - to my mind it has to have been in the roof. I do not understand why this possiblility would not be investigated as a matter of course.

    Hazell was found by an 11 year old whose own stepfather knew him as a drinking buddy. He was crying and asking her to find Tia. I cannot find the link but it looks like he went back to a place near where he fishes. He also went into a hairdresser asking them to find Tia. I wonder how drunk he really was? Knowing the body might be found it is a way of trying to prove you are innocent to go somewhere and ask for someone to find the person the police are looking for?

    I hate to say it but there may not be an arrest as yet. You can only arrest when there is proof linking a to b. I don't know if Hazell's lies prove as yet he did more than like about whether she was alive or dead. It is not a foregone conclusion he killed her, but it is a foregone conclusion that he knows who did. Who killed Tia would need to be established by forensic evidence. That Hazell clearly lied does not prove he was the one who killed Tia. Hopefully they will formally charge someone soon, but don't be surprised if they do not. (I guess they can charge him over his false statements but I am not sure that charge would keep him in jail.)

    Oh poor girl. RIP little one.
     
  19. laserdisc10

    laserdisc10 New Member

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    FOUR searches according to the Guardian and other news sources

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/aug/10/tia-sharp-body-stuart-hazell


    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...after-fourth-search-reveals-body-8030809.html


    Britain's famous for its murder mysteries: Sherlock Holmes, any version. Midsomer Murders. Poirot. Miss Marple. Inspector Lynley. Frost. Morse

    but even Keystone Cops or Dad's Army would put to shame the handling of Tia's case by British policing, 2012 version, imo

    Were police stationed around the house during and between the many searches? If not, why not? Why the complacency? Why the lack of basic professionalism? What if Tia had been kidnapped and kidnappers were casing the house - or had put items or messages on the doorstep? What if Tia had been kidnapped but escaped and had struggled to return to the house? What if kidnappers/rapists etc. had dumped her body on her grandmother's doorstep? Police should have been stationed at the house from the moment they entered the case, imo

    If no police stationed front and rear of the house, is it surprising SH was able to simple depart the premises, requiring a several hour search for him and warnings relayed to the public not to approach him (dangerous, obviously, in the police's estimation)

    Instead of conducting a thorough search at the outset, police instead were spread over parks and neighbouring regions, were detailed to search garbage and were photographed dramatically arriving in uniformed groups like Ghengis Khan's invading armies with headlines such as Shannon's Team Search for Tia

    Police were used to distribute phamplets bearing an outdated likeness of the missing child, when all along, her body sat just feet above 'expert' police search teams' heads

    A fiasco of sobering proportions, imo, which will justifiably embarrass British policing all the way from top to bottom. Only this utter and total humiliation might have the impetus to force a complete restructure and examination of the British police force -- one that's obviously WAY overdue

    We're just 'members of the public'. We're not experts in forensics or strategy. We don't profess to be. But when we lose our keys or wallets, what do we do - do we distribute pamphlets carrying outdated photos of our lost keys? Do we do a quick whiz around our room, parade around looking officious before heading out to a square kilometre of parkland and call in search-teams from distant States or counties?

    No. We systematically search the immediate location from top to bottom. And then we very often do that again -to rule out any possibility our keys or wallet may be where they usually are -- in our cases that's usually our homes or vehicles

    Only when we have exhausted ALL possibility our lost item is in the immediate location do we proceed to conduct searches beyond the immediate perimeter. But we ordinary members of the public begin with square-one and then work outwards. And at least eight times out of ten, we're successful

    If police had adopted the same logical, dilligent attitudes and actions with regard to Tia, a media circus would have been avoided. Worried parents for miles around would have been spared anxiety. Vital forensic evidence within the house would have been preserved. A suspected killer would not have been provided opportunity to roam around for a week, nor would he have been able to simply walk away from what is now a contaminated, week-old crime scene

    [Disclaimer: I'm British, UK-born, from a several hundred year old (minimum) British family-tree, although I don't reside in the UK at the moment, so I do feel entitled to criticise the manner in which this case had been handled by a policing service paid in part by my large, extended family of tax-payers in the UK, in case anyone feels inclined to 'take offence' at my comments. Members of my family (now deceased) were old-fashioned Bobbies who walked the beat with nothing more than a truncheon through rain, fog and anything else thrown at them. They must be disgusted by the charade of policing we've witnessed. They would have performed better their first day on the job]

    Let's hope the police don't compound their incompetence by attempting to suggest that Tia's killer/s moved her body all over a difficult to traverse common loft-space separated as it is by 'partial' fire-walls, only to return Tia's week old corpse to a position above her grandmother's home -- all of this above the heads of immediate neighbours living below and (because of high unemployment) who were probably at home, all day and all night, and familiar with every creak of their homes keeping in mind also that the police required to fetch a ladder to enter the crawl-space.

    Did SH keep a ladder handy? Was he observed by family-members, neighbours or police to continually carry a ladder into the house? Did family members or police see a ladder inside the home? Did Tia's grandmother observe SH and/or others entering the crawl-space to 'move the body around'. Did SH enter other homes in the terrace with a ladder and disappear into their crawl-spaces? Were tiles on the roofs disturbed? Did neighbours advise police they'd heard noises in the crawl-spaces above their heads, etc? If so and police did not investigate, it serves as yet another level of incompetence
     
  20. Inge Jones

    Inge Jones New Member

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    Several people have raised the point that the body may have been moved between loft spaces, which is perfectly possible in one type of continuous loft design. However, if this was the case it still leaves two questions:

    1) The police should have noticed the loft was continuous, and worked out that the body may be anywhere in it, so searched the whole accessible area.

    2) If the body had been in a different part of the loft before, why would it have been moved later to be over the very house where it could be found more easily?

    I feel quite confident it could not have been brought into that row of houses at any point subsequent to the girl being reported missing, as there were too many eyes on the house and family from that point onwards, so the only thing that could have happened after this was the body moving along the attic space, or being taken into different spots in the Sharp/Hazell home.

    My hunch is that the police are hoping they can come up with a good reason why looking in the loft sooner would not have discovered her sooner. And since they needed to bring a ladder in, in order to access the loft (there would have been no reason to bring one otherwise) and they have not been observed bringing a ladder in before yesterday, I would deduce that the police had *not* looked in the loft *at all* previously!
     
  21. nursebeeme

    nursebeeme Registered User

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    I don't think the guy went next door.. I think he used his own house or rather the house he was staying in.. He most likely had plans to move the body but the media attention foiled his plans.

    :moo:
     
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