UK - Wayne Couzens (convicted killer of Sarah Everard)

jackal67

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Well I personally did not contribute to the huge input of sleuths in this case but I recall in live time there were sleuths accessing the public CCTV, traffic camera footage, and bus camera footage using methods that I have no idea about and previously had been unaware we could even do. The doorbell stuff and initial street footage of SE had come to nothing because it only showed SE disappearing into thin air. I'm not saying the police weren't working on the same stuff, naturally.
Yes I remember sleuths on here having cctv footage that looked like a girl struggling in a car. I believe they posted it on the SE thread and trying to trace the car make. If I remember correctly the footage they had accessed was suddenly unavailable.
 

Pinkizzy

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Yes I remember sleuths on here having cctv footage that looked like a girl struggling in a car. I believe they posted it on the SE thread and trying to trace the car make. If I remember correctly the footage they had accessed was suddenly unavailable.
It was a link from London Traffic Cameras - Live TfL JamCam Feeds

I guess WC was moved on to another force after each sexual offense
 

jackal67

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He was completely cocky and had methodically purchased the items required to conduct a murder and disposal of a body with narry a care in the world. That speaks to his over confidence and having done it many times before and got away with it. Previous victims would not be alive to tell the police. JMO MOO
yes obviously if they had been murdered but I was thinking more of previous rape victims or indecent exposure cases. Ex girlfriends etc who may have come forward after he was caught?
 

jackal67

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Pinkizzy

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Shocking really. Also hadn't he been exposing himself a few days before SE was abducted and murdered ? Was he just extremely lucky to keep getting away with it ? Seems such reckless behaviour to me.
Had he been charged for these offences and found guilty in court? If not, they are allegations and should be another forces problem
 

Observe_dont_Absorb

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yes obviously if they had been murdered but I was thinking more of previous rape victims or indecent exposure cases. Ex girlfriends etc who may have come forward after he was caught?

I think some people came forward and spoke about his ways of being back in the day when he worked as a mechanic for his father. IIRC this prompted suggestion at the time that the underground tunnels and areas accessible from the workshops should be ripped apart. I don't see that has happened but might be wrong.
 

Officer Dibble

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I still cannot get my head around the fact that a serving policeman was caught for indecent exposure so many times and nothing happened to him. MOO

Today on twitter British Transport Police in Essex (BTPEssex) have taken a bold step in showing a photo of a man they say abused himself on a public train in UK. The comments below the tweet are shocking. Its all haha - mostly from men, but also some women think its funny. My point in posting this is to say the UK Police are taking these types of crime seriously now yet the public still need educating its not funny haha, it should be taken seriously.
 

Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc

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Shocking really. Also hadn't he been exposing himself a few days before SE was abducted and murdered ? Was he just extremely lucky to keep getting away with it ? Seems such reckless behaviour to me.
As someone said earlier, and also JMO, they look after their own.
And another poster (I am sorry, I am terrible with the multipost quoting), mentioned it seems he was relocated elsewhere, after the charges/complaints were known.
Why?
 

Terryb808

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As someone said earlier, and also JMO, they look after their own.
And another poster (I am sorry, I am terrible with the multipost quoting), mentioned it seems he was relocated elsewhere, after the charges/complaints were known.
Why?
I think it’s called “sweeping it under the carpet”, but I could be wrong.
 

Officer Dibble

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Don't think he was very bright tbh considering he was a policeman. He got caught pretty quickly. I would hope they have checked his DNA on the national database to see if it matches any previous crimes. Also the case had mass publicity so would hope people had come forward and spoken to police if they had been victims of him or knew about any previous offending by him.
Yes but we all know there aren't enough resources for police to follow up when people come forward. Often they are dismissed or never hear from the Police again. Just my opinion. My own opinion.
 

Officer Dibble

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sriraaacha

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I'd be pretty surprised tbh if he has any other victims. This man literally bought/ordered items to carry out a murder (online history), then went on to use a hire car for this... if I remember correctly it was just hours before he drove up to London (where there would obviously be CCTV footage of him picking it up), then decided to stop in the middle of a busy main road during the evening. Surely anybody would know there would be a bunch of CCTV from various places, not to mention cars, people and houses around? He drove around other parts of London for hours until he made his decision to stop there. Then he disposed of her body in his own land then took his family there. Then when the police interviewed him he came across so shady, dishonest and inexperienced.

There is nothing smart about this guy and imo it really seems like all the flashing lead up to Sarah's murder, which is often how it goes. It's just a shame his previous actions were never taken more seriously.
 

Observe_dont_Absorb

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I'd be pretty surprised tbh if he has any other victims. This man literally bought/ordered items to carry out a murder (online history), then went on to use a hire car for this... if I remember correctly it was just hours before he drove up to London (where there would obviously be CCTV footage of him picking it up), then decided to stop in the middle of a busy main road during the evening. Surely anybody would know there would be a bunch of CCTV from various places, not to mention cars, people and houses around? He drove around other parts of London for hours until he made his decision to stop there. Then he disposed of her body in his own land then took his family there. Then when the police interviewed him he came across so shady, dishonest and inexperienced.

There is nothing smart about this guy and imo it really seems like all the flashing lead up to Sarah's murder, which is often how it goes. It's just a shame his previous actions were never taken more seriously.

He thought he was never going to be caught. There hardly was cctv of him, he wasn't to know the passing bus would have rear cctv, her body was extremely hard to find, then was almost unidentifiable, and to this day her phone has never been found. He was acting like a man who doesn't care because he was assured he was getting away with it. That's my opinion.
 

sriraaacha

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He thought he was never going to be caught. There hardly was cctv of him, he wasn't to know the passing bus would have rear cctv, her body was extremely hard to find, then was almost unidentifiable, and to this day her phone has never been found. He was acting like a man who doesn't care because he was assured he was getting away with it. That's my opinion.
But that proves my point that he isn't smart. It doesn't mean he's gotten away with it in the past and believed he would again. Possible of course, just imo unlikely to be the case. In addition to the fact he was an actual policeman and this is exactly the sort of thing the police investigate. There is CCTV everywhere nowadays so you'd have to be a fool not to consider that it would be somewhere along a busy main road.
 

Terryb808

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But that proves my point that he isn't smart. It doesn't mean he's gotten away with it in the past and believed he would again. Possible of course, just imo unlikely to be the case. In addition to the fact he was an actual policeman and this is exactly the sort of thing the police investigate. There is CCTV everywhere nowadays so you'd have to be a fool not to consider that it would be somewhere along a busy main road.
Over confidence based on the fact he’s got away with previous (less serious) offences. However, murder pushes him over the line and I can’t believe any police force would attempt to brush this under the carpet.

Acting quickly to secure CCTV footage was clearly the key to solving the SE case.

IMO he either researched in detail what happens at a serious crime scene and prepared himself to eradicate any actual evidence. From the press coverage he did this very well and without the CCTV footage there would likely have not been enough evidence for a prosecution.

If this isn’t his first murder and he’s used the same MO regarding deposition, sadly they’re not going to be solved.
 

Officer Dibble

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Today on twitter British Transport Police in Essex (BTPEssex) have taken a bold step in showing a photo of a man they say abused himself on a public train in UK. The comments below the tweet are shocking. Its all haha - mostly from men, but also some women think its funny. My point in posting this is to say the UK Police are taking these types of crime seriously now yet the public still need educating its not funny haha, it should be taken seriously.
Just to add to this I saw a report where he wasn't just abusing himself but by a woman when he did this. I hope he is caught. I'm please Police are taking it seriously. JMO
 

Observe_dont_Absorb

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Over confidence based on the fact he’s got away with previous (less serious) offences. However, murder pushes him over the line and I can’t believe any police force would attempt to brush this under the carpet.

Acting quickly to secure CCTV footage was clearly the key to solving the SE case.

IMO he either researched in detail what happens at a serious crime scene and prepared himself to eradicate any actual evidence. From the press coverage he did this very well and without the CCTV footage there would likely have not been enough evidence for a prosecution.

If this isn’t his first murder and he’s used the same MO regarding deposition, sadly they’re not going to be solved.

That's my sense of it. He was overly confident from getting away with things already IMO.

He was well aware of how detection is undertaken and he thought he had a watertight system. He pretty much did, he almost left no trace and I don't believe he knew the bus had rear CCTV. Also there's the compulsion aspect of it and that in this instance he had been maybe slightly more reckless -or- picked up someone who was going to be swiftly missed, whereas in the past he had maybe taken easier prey - streetwalkers / homeless / addicts - and it was maybe due to covid regulations that he went that bit further?

Also he very systematically purchased items and even the condoms and hairbands - what the heck are hairbands for? to hold condoms in place? to tie her hair back? and why? who would even think of that unless they'd been doing it before? we still don't know what he did to SE and where. Or what likely areas that he could have been operating in were, in relation to his journey to work and back, or other periods of time where he had claimed to be at work and actually wasn't.
 

LammyTheRobot

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I followed this case very, very closely, and gave technical advice to the Met and Sussex in support of their work. I work on software and computer systems that process huge datasets, and also produce some geographical insights to private sector and government.

Some geographical reference points I have in my notes, which may be useful to your research, are:

- The very small number of locations outside of London itself that the Met's PaDP unit protects, including Windsor Castle, Chevening House in Kent, the NATO Summit in Watford in 2019, and possibly Hanslope Park near Milton Keynes (though this is primarily protected by Thames Valley Police).

- The Met trains its armed officers at its premises in Gravesend, Kent, so presumably WC would have spent a fair amount of time there.

- The Civil Nuclear Constabulary's training centre is in Oxfordshire - Abingdon - and WC would presumably have spent quite a bit of time there (he was CNC from 2011-2018). From memory researching the CNC, I recall that it wasn't unusual for someone permanently appointed at one location to regularly spend time at other locations, so their other locations (particularly Sizewell) would be interesting. They also run rail-based long-distance heavily guarded journeys, and the odd sea-based guarded journey, which WC may or may not have been involved with, as well as acting as armed response to non-nuclear/police requests in local areas when needed.

- I think it's not a stretch to say WC's "range" covers most of the Kent/Sussex/Essex coasts, and also Oxfordshire, non-coastal Kent, non-coastal Sussex, and the Thames Valley areas around Windsor, Watford, and possibly Hanslope Park. This range would have been +/- active over the years, with obvious concentration at certain times (e.g. more Kent & Sussex coast earlier on, Oxfordshire for the CNC, then the southern commuter-town belt around London, then London itself).

- I'm pretty sure his time at the TA included Brighton barracks and that WC lived in Brighton for a time.

The motorways provide a great way of plotting this supposed range, and I'm attaching a graphic that was drawn up by a professional geo-profiler as part of my work, which several police forces have. The darker areas are the strongest areas of interest, based on number of connections over the years with those areas. So a dark spot would be somewhere WC had a long, repeat connection to, etc.

Honestly I'm quite surprised there haven't yet been any specific cases connected to him to emerge. I feel he probably was a serial killer, based on the "efficiency" with which he carried out the Everard attack, and the proximity of her murder to his home; I could of course be wrong but statistically I don't think so. It's unusual for a "commuting"-type serial offender to commute to find targets, and then return those targets close to home.

Good luck @Sleuthresearcher!
 

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Joshw2022

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Even if specific victims don't come forward, it would be interesting to know whether there was any increased offending in the specific areas where Couzens lived and worked, if his specific addresses are known. I.e., in the time that Couzens lived in a certain area was there an increase in reports of indecent exposure or voyeurism compared to the years previously. Maybe a FOI request to the relevant forces could demonstrate this.

Also, just to pick up on one point mentioned in the threads about police not dealing with his earlier offending because they were protecting their own...in my experience that's not the case. It's likely they didn't have any evidence that it was Couzens, that the investigations simply took far too long or that they were filed without being investigated as they were seen as low level offences.

As a police officer I can say there's nothing we hate more than a corrupt cop. They have no place in the police. Any decent cop will tell you that, and would go above and beyond to get one of our own locked up if this was the case. Couzens is HATED by police officers for what he did, but also because of how his vile actions affected confidence in all police officers. I do know that many investigations are filed due to being 'low level' or unlikely to lead to a prosecution simply because we don't have enough officers. Its no excuse and it's not right, I'm just making the point that it's much more complex than police looking after their own...
 
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