Unarmed 19 Year Old Killed by Police - Family Sues for $120 Million

Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by gitana1, Apr 17, 2012.

  1. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    This happened in Los Angeles a week ago. The kid ran a stop light and refused to stop when the police tried to pull him over.

    Then, he called 911, told the dispatcher that he had a gun and was not afraid to use it on the police.

    He drove dangerously and erratically before being t-boned by a police car. Here's the video of what happened next:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/17/abdul-arians-family-files-lawsuit_n_1431508.html (Scroll down to second video).

    Another angle:
    [video=youtube;XlyDsc3PMhY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlyDsc3PMhY&feature=related[/video]

    Here's a real clear one:
    Police Chase ends with deadly freeway shooting - April 11, 2012 - YouTube

    The police fired over 90 rounds. The family is suing for $120 million. Their attorney said it was the worst tragedy in L.A. history and that the police CLEARLY used excessive force.

    Here's the kids FB page: http://www.facebook.com/abdul.arian/friends

    Arian was not armed. He was a police explorer for a while but was kicked out of the program, I believe.

    He drove a police-looking vehicle and was paranoid that police were after him because of his car.

    What do you all think?
     
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  3. JBean

    JBean Retired WS Administrator

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    1million per shot. (but it turned out there were only 90 so not sure if they will adjust the suit)
    I have been following this and it almost appeared as a suicide by cop at the time.
    I am waiting for LE to release the 911 tape. The lawyer for the family said we have only heard 7 seconds of a 12 minute call and that it just isn't enough to draw conclusions.
    But I don;t think the lawyer has heard it yet.
    My understanding is that this kid was a wannabe cop- and as such would be well aware what to do when you are surrounded by LE-standing with outstretched arms holding something unrecognizable in their direction would not be it.

    I am anxious for more info.Either way I feel real bad for the family.


    ETA: The couple in the blue car were more than grateful that he was shot because they thought he was going to shoot them.
     
  4. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    I see you listen to KFI! So do I. I think the police were concerned when this kid, who appeared and said he was armed, approached that vehicle with innocent bystanders in it, as well. For all they knew he could have murdered that couple.

    I bet the kid had undiagnosed, recently developed paranoid schizophrenia.
     
  5. JBean

    JBean Retired WS Administrator

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    I am a KFI commuter :)
    I hadn't thought about mental illness, but that is a good point. Even bipolar I would explain a lot. He clearly had something going on- I assumed he had some sort of breakdown and at that age could be anything that could throw them inot deep despair.
    My gf's son jumped off an overpass bridge last January onto the 5 in San Clemente and it was obviously pretty shocking to them that he would do something so...final... when he was upset. Heartbreaking.
    This is kind of what I had in mind when I saw this unfold. He called his mother and I wonder what he said to her? Surely she must know what was going on to some degree.

    I feel really bad for them because if LE shot up one of my kids I would go crazy. As a rule I think the LE around SoCal are overly aggressive-but when that boy raised his hands with something in them I thought oh. my. gosh.

    After listening to the lawyer yesterday I wonder if he was going to take a photo and post it on instagram. What a nightmare.

    I also heard on KFI today that the family thinks that when they heard his name they profiled him and that sealed his fate. LA is such a melting pot I don't mean to sound naive but I don't think that is what happened here.
     
  6. em1025

    em1025 New Member

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    Regardless of the 911 tapes, the video clearly shows the person pointing something at police and it looks as if he is in a shooting stance.

    He had a choice to stop. He also had a choice to get down on the ground with his hands up.

    I thought it was pretty much common knowledge that if you point a weapon at police then something is going to happen. Add a car chase into that and him running toward a vehicle with innocent people in it.
     
  7. em1025

    em1025 New Member

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    I don't think that's what happened either. He sealed his own fate by his actions.
     
  8. Nova

    Nova Active Member

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    I've been very outspoken in opposition to Florida's SYG law and George Zimmerman's apparent actions in the Sanford case.

    HOWEVER, if you tell police you are armed or if you brandish a weapon (or something that looks like a weapon) at them, then I think you have committed suicide. "Excessive force" should not be measured in number of gun shots; the number of gun shots is largely determined by the number of officers on the scene. "Excessive force" can only be measured by the perceived threat, and this kid called 911 and told them he had a gun!

    It's a very sad incident (I do think mental illness was involved), but unless LE knew something that isn't reported in the links above, I think this was a "good shoot" (and it almost kills me to type those words).

    (Confidential to gitana1 and Jbean: I was a KFI commuter for years until I moved around Mt. San Jacinto to Palm Springs. The signal can't make it through the rock. I can't tell you much my view of the world improved without John & Ken & Co. telling me how awful people are everyday.)
     
  9. Charlie09

    Charlie09 Former Member

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    Holy Crap, I totally agree with Nova on something.
     
  10. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    I agree with you. I think the cops had no choice. I'm very sad for the family but the timing of getting a lawyer and filing a suit, all right before they buried him, bothers me.

    I also feel, looking at his FB, that there may have been some signs. Are they in denial?

    As for Jon and Ken, I like them for some things, like when they go after murder suspects or rapists, yet I don't agree with a lot of what they say politically. But, overall, I enjoy listening to them. There aren't many good radio programs at that time of the day!
     
  11. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    I saw their protest on the news tonight, with all of the signs, calling out the police, and it seemed really 'forced' , imo. Like their lawyer wanted this to look like a 120 million dollar case and gain national momentum. But it is hard for them to overcome the kids 911 call.

    One of his cousins was interviewed on the news, and he said that the kid called 911 and told them he had a gun because he was afraid of them and they were chasing him, and he didn't want to get shot, so he told them he was armed. ????

    That seems like the opposite thing to do. Wouldnt you call 911 and say, Hey , I am not armed, and I want to stop, let's end this peacefully?
     
  12. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    Right. And then when you see the video, he's in a shooting stance pointing both hands at the officers as if he's holding a gun. Some reporters watching thought they were seeing a shoot out. It was dark and there were innocent bystanders parked nearby, that Abdul ran to. He also said he was going to use that gun on the officers. And you better believe that info was relayed to the officers in pursuit, within seconds. The officers had to think fast and decisively. I can't blame them. They must feel horrible right now.
     
  13. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    One other thing. Shame on the lawyer for taking that case so quickly. They just lost their son. They are not thinking clearly. That lawyer must know he has an un-winable case. Yet he forges ahead anyhow. He should have told them to wait, at least until after the funeral, to even think about a lawsuit.
     
  14. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    I think they feel horrible now too, especially if the kid had mental health issues and needed help.

    I am afraid they are going to try and make this a civil rights case blaming the cops for racial profiling because of his middle eastern name. That is what the lawyer said on the news tonight.

    And he said it was clear from the 911 call that he told them his name, and the shooting was a response to them hearing his name. And I am thinking, wasn't it really a response to him saying he had a gun and was prepared to use it? And him getting out in 'shooting' stance on the highway?
     
  15. Nova

    Nova Active Member

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    Had to happen eventually. Law of averages and all that. :)

    (I'm perfectly happy to wear the badge of "liberal" or "progressive", but contrary to mythology, that doesn't make me blind to reality. I know the police do a dangerous job (more dangerous than it should be thanks to ill-conceived policies such as the "War on Drugs") and they have to be able to defend themselves and others.)
     
  16. stilettos

    stilettos Former Member

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    :rocker: Great post!
     
  17. Donjeta

    Donjeta Adji Desir, missing from Florida

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    It sounds like he brought it on himself (could it have been a suicide by cop?) but why did the police fire over 90 rounds? It seems like serious overkill unless they're very bad shots.
     
  18. Nova

    Nova Active Member

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    I am not a police officer. However I believe they are taught to avoid using lethal force when possible, but to use maximum lethal force once it becomes necessary.

    That's what I meant about the number of rounds. I think once one policeman begins shooting, they ALL begin shooting and continue to do so until their guns are empty or the target goes down.

    That's what I meant when I said that the number of rounds doesn't really tell us anything except the approximate number of police officers present at the time.

    Of course, it sounds bad when reported: "90 Rounds Fired at One Man"!

    But in fact any other policy would put both the police and bystanders at risk. If your partner starts shooting, you join in; it could be fatal for both of you if you wait to see how his gun battle turns out. And you empty your gun because you have no way of knowing how many rounds will be required (unless and until, as I said, the suspect drops his weapon or hits the deck).

    This is my understanding of police shootings. I should point out again that I am not a member of LE.
     
  19. Quiche

    Quiche New Member

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    Idk, there was an awful lot of communication going on for him to be shot down like that. Why wasn't there a dog (or two) to take him down?


    I imagine the folks in that other car were a little surprised that 90 rounds also surrounded them!


    I've seen a lot of chases, and never seen a person shot down like that. Those odds make me think there may have been a better way to go than to kill him dead. jmo


    :cool:
     
  20. teedie2

    teedie2 Well-Known Member

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    The deceased's conversation consisted of threats against LEOs. That has to be taken seriously by LE. They don't go to work every day to make themselves voluntary sacrifices by waiting to see if someone really has a gun or not and if they plan to use it as they are threatening.

    The young man wasn't thinking clearly, for sure. It is a shame, but what else could LEO have done?

    moo
     
  21. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    The communication was between dispatch and the kid, not the officers tailing him. They get coded messages from dispatch, or relayed messages that are not word for word.

    I heard that the folks in the car were relieved that the police shot him. They were scared shipless when Abdul ran at their car. And although many shots did not hit Abdul, none hit their car or came close, I think.

    As far as using dogs goes, this happened quickly. They t-boned the car, Abdul ran out the other side and almost immediately took a gun stance as he ran towards a car with innocent bystanders in it.

    Listen, this is horrible. And I have protested police brutality on several occasions. Vigorously protested. But this was not a case of excessive force, IMO. I really believe they had no other choice. When you try to pull someone over, they run and drive exceedingly dangerously, you get a message from dispatch that he is armed and willing to use the gun on LE and then he exits the car in a shooting stance, pointing an object at officers while running towards civilians, you have to think fast and save lives. There is no time to think about alternate methods.

    I think this kid was mentally ill and I think the cops had no choice.

    Two other things. First, most of the 90 rounds did not hit Abdul. He was a moving target and did not go down quickly, either because he was pumped, or whatever. Second, some may say the cops should have backed off and let him run. But they had no idea who was driving that car and why the driver was running. Imagine if the police had backed off so and there had been a kidnapped child in that car.

    I feel for the officers involved. My heart hurts for Abdul's family. I cannot imagine their pain. I just think this was a case of tragic circumstances, not screw-ups, or profiling or anything else, on the part of LE.

    RIP Abdul Arian. May the next life be sweeter than this one.
     

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