Urine stains on JonBenet's longjohns

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by aussiesheila, Jul 28, 2006.

  1. aussiesheila

    aussiesheila Inactive

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    The longjohns JonBenet was wearing that night had a large areas of urine staining on them as though from a complete voiding of her bladder. These stains were in the crotch area and down the fronts of the legs. With this in mind some people have theorized that she was lying on her stomach when this happened. If so, where is the corresponding stain in the house from the overflow? It was not in her bed, that was dry.

    IMO there would have been a urine stain somewhere down on the basement floor. I am sure I read somewhere ages ago that there was one but have been unable to re-locate where I saw it. I have been putting off posting this thread waiting until I did but now I am sick of it.

    So here goes guys - shoot me down in flames (I'm sure you don't need any encouragement though). And if there is someone out there who doesn't think my theory is total crap and who has read about a carpet stain, please help me.

    I think JonBenet was kneeling on the floor there on her hands and knees, beside a little rabbit in a box that Santa had brought to the house and placed there as a 'special surprise' for her that night. I think that while she was leaning over the box stroking the rabbit, another pedophile put a noose around the rabbit's neck and strangled it right before her eyes.

    I don't know what the reponse is called but I'm sure there must be a name for it, and it occurs when a person is stricken with terror and the bladder (and sometimes the bowel as well) is involuntarily voided/evacuated. I think this is what happened to JonBenet. At that point I think a similar noose was placed around her neck and she was instructed 'do as you are told or your noose will be tightened the same way'. I think it was at this point that the molestation began.
     
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  3. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    Aussie, this isn't my theory, but I will share it anyway.
    There was some discussion a long time ago that there "could have been a santa" (not McReynolds) at the last pageant who handed out gifts. The pageant prizes were bears, and according to Patsy Jonbenet was given an angel bear, or she had chosen an angel bear. When the "mystery" bear appeared on her bed, as you recall, a nationwide search began trying to source it. It was sourced to that last pageant, shown in a picture, laid on a table, as one of the bears available as gifts. However, Patsy insists this was NOT the bear Jonbenet received. This led to some speculation that the person who murdered Jonbenet brought that bear to Jonbenet the night she was killed, and had taken that bear from the pageant table. More interesting is that some suggest the earrings Jonbenet had on were missing, with one found in the street and another attached to a small pouch the bear was holding. Once the BPD found the source of the bear they again dropped the ball, concluding that Patsy was mistaken. There are a lot of toys in my house , as I'm sure there are in the houses of most children, and I KNOW the source of each of them. I can't imagine Patsy was in error.
     
  4. Nuisanceposter

    Nuisanceposter Remembering Little Miss Christmas

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    Yeah, Patsy stoned on tranqs knew exactly where each bear came from but still had no idea if her daughter bathed Christmas Day. Patsy's prone to exaggeration. I have a hard time believing almost anything she said.

    Aussiesheila, for JonBenet's sake, I truly hope that did not happen to her. I've always figured her longjohns got urine-stained when she died of strangulation and her bladder let go. I think she lying face down on the floor so the killer could tighten the cord without looking at her face, and I think the killer already thought she was dead at the time.
     
  5. Paradox

    Paradox Former Member

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  6. tumble

    tumble New Member

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  7. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

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    "I think JonBenet was kneeling on the floor there on her hands and knees, beside a little rabbit in a box that Santa had brought to the house and placed there as a 'special surprise' for her that night. I think that while she was leaning over the box stroking the rabbit, another pedophile put a noose around the rabbit's neck and strangled it right before her eyes.

    I don't know what the reponse is called but I'm sure there must be a name for it, and it occurs when a person is stricken with terror and the bladder (and sometimes the bowel as well) is involuntarily voided/evacuated. I think this is what happened to JonBenet. At that point I think a similar noose was placed around her neck and she was instructed 'do as you are told or your noose will be tightened the same way'. I think it was at this point that the molestation began."

    I don't know, aussiesheila. Your idea seems plausible, but there's one thing that doesn't wash: another pair of pants was found soiled in JB's bathroom.

    This is a transcript of the discussion about it:

    PATSY: This is JonBenet's floor, her pants.

    HANEY: They are kind of inside out.

    PATSY: Right.

    HANEY: It appears they are stained.

    PATSY: Right. She was learning to wipe herself. Sometimes she would do such a great job.

    So it looked like she'd already done it once that night.

    "However, Patsy insists this was NOT the bear Jonbenet received. This led to some speculation that the person who murdered Jonbenet brought that bear to Jonbenet the night she was killed, and had taken that bear from the pageant table. More interesting is that some suggest the earrings Jonbenet had on were missing, with one found in the street and another attached to a small pouch the bear was holding. Once the BPD found the source of the bear they again dropped the ball, concluding that Patsy was mistaken. There are a lot of toys in my house , as I'm sure there are in the houses of most children, and I KNOW the source of each of them. I can't imagine Patsy was in error."

    Sissi, I think they found out that the bear HAD been in the house for some time. Can't remember exactly who said it. I'll go over my notes and find it.

    "Patsy's prone to exaggeration. I have a hard time believing almost anything she said."

    That's a nice way of putting it, NP.

    "I've always figured her longjohns got urine-stained when she died of strangulation and her bladder let go. I think she lying face down on the floor so the killer could tighten the cord without looking at her face, and I think the killer already thought she was dead at the time."

    I agree with that if for no other reason than the cord was quite clearly tied onto her body (her hair in it tells me that) and it was tied behind her. The person couldn't even look her in the face when they killed her! That tells me a great deal!
     
  8. icedtea4me

    icedtea4me New Member

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    My sentiments exactly!


    -Tea
     
  9. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    Super Dave,
    The pants that were found on the floor, with the stained undies were the ones she had worn while playing Christmas day. She removed them when she dressed to go to the Whites. There's nothing , absolutely nothing of any value in them to connect to the crime.

    No, the after the bear was found to be a possible pageant gift the police were satisfied, never following up on the obvious questions.

    Did they look for someone like this??

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14072870/from/ET/
     
  10. Britt

    Britt New Member

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    Nobody knows when the pants ended up on the bathroom floor. Patsy may have put JB to bed dressed for the next morning for a quick early a.m. exit, and JB may have worn her play pants to bed. Maybe even the red sweater, per Patsy's initial statement. And then around midnight or whenever, she soiled the pants and Patsy attacked her.
     
  11. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    There were others questioned, this is what she had on while playing on Christmas day. They were NOT soiled, she had a little mark in them .
     
  12. Britt

    Britt New Member

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    And she could've had them on again after coming home from the Whites, in prep for an early morning trip. No one knows when they ended up on the floor.

    Soiled or marked, in the interviews they are called "stained," and it's enough to be visible in the photo and warrant questioning about it.
     
  13. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    There are enough strange elements to this crime, we know she wore velvet to the Whites and was dressed later in longjohns. No one put her in dirty clothes.
     
  14. Britt

    Britt New Member

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    Maybe they weren't dirty when she put them back on.

    What's wrong with re-wearing clothes? It was good enough for Patsy, eh?
     
  15. Nuisanceposter

    Nuisanceposter Remembering Little Miss Christmas

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    Yes. They followed the evidence, sissi. They checked all the leads and tips, spent hundreds of hours chasing down guys just like that. There were no break-ins at the Ramsey house and there just wasn't enough evidence connecting a man like that to this crime. Sadly, most of the evidence led investigators right back to the Ramseys - things like their inconsistent stories, and Patsy's handwriting, and a complete lack of any evidence left behind indicating anyone other than a Ramsey was involved.
     
  16. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

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    That about sums it up. I remember one guy in North Carolina that they checked out. Really creeped them out. I think they would have been pleased to stick it on him.

    "The pants that were found on the floor, with the stained undies were the ones she had worn while playing Christmas day. She removed them when she dressed to go to the Whites. There's nothing , absolutely nothing of any value in them to connect to the crime."

    Maybe not to the day, but they might have connected in another way.
     
  17. narlacat

    narlacat Former Member

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    If it had been JBR's earring, we would have heard about it.


    You can't imagine Patsy being in error, come on....she couldn't remember if her child had a bath that day or what her child ate, what makes you think she could remember anything correctly, let alone what toys her children had.
     
  18. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

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    She couldn't even recognize the captions in the photo album! (I know BlueCrab's going to haunt me for that one!)
     
  19. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    2 Q. We are going to assume the fact
    3 that she did not take a bath because you

    4 previously stated that. Would she change her

    5 underwear if she didn't take a bath on

    6 Christmas Day?

    Why do you believe she didn't remember?
     
  20. IrishMist

    IrishMist You can't control the wind - but you can adjust yo

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    This is from the 1997 police interview with Patsy:

    TT: During the early morning hours, the morning hours before the kids got there, did everybody go and get dressed I take it?

    PR: At some point in the day, yeah.

    TT: Okay. Uh, everybody take showers and baths and everything to get cleaned up for the day.

    PR: I don’t remember. Doubt if the kids did. I don’t remember.

    TT: Okay.

    PR: They’re not interested in baths usually.

    TT: Okay. So everybody just got dressed and then kids started coming over to the house?

    PR: Right.

    Bold emphasis mine
     
  21. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    PR: They’re not interested in baths usually.

    TT: Okay. So everybody just got dressed and then kids started coming over to the house?

    PR: Right.


    Did everybody take showers, meaning all four of them...she didn't remember if she or john did, but doubted the kids did.
     

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