GUILTY UT - Brian Mitchell & Wanda Barzee for kidnapping, Salt Lake City, 5 June 2002

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therunner said:
Hey does everybody with Websleuths believe everybody is guilty. This poor guy is dead and was lock up because of bad police work. What if that was you. People here have too much time on there hands.

I'm here trying to help a poor family whoses daughter was murdered. I need your help but hey get a life.
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TWO people .....TWO feel he was up to SOMETHING in this thread.
I'd appreciate it if you did not paint all W/s'ers with the same brush.I think Ricci was innocent of being involved w/ the Smart kidnapping so who cares where he was/what he was doing-he's dead! They owe the Widow something IMO.

AND may I add your last comment was more than a bit spikey..........W/S is about DISCUSSION and as long as its not a TOS violation we CAN and WILL say anything we want so if you don't like it LEAVE!!!
You want help??? Why not show some respect??? Just because your cause is noble doesnt give you the right to INSULT posters and in doing so you may harm support for your case.
I have a full and happy life THANK YOU and am involved in numerous causes and volunteer work in my community(as well as raising my 4 kids).W/S is a HOBBY!! Are you going to suggest knitters,model ship builders,gardeners etc "GET A LIFE" because of their hobbies?? I think not so you shouldnt do so here.
 
messiecake said:
TWO people .....TWO feel he was up to SOMETHING in this thread.
I'd appreciate it if you did not paint all W/s'ers with the same brush.I think Ricci was innocent of being involved w/ the Smart kidnapping so who cares where he was/what he was doing-he's dead! They owe the Widow something IMO.

AND may I add your last comment was more than a bit spikey..........W/S is about DISCUSSION and as long as its not a TOS violation we CAN and WILL say anything we want so if you don't like it LEAVE!!!
You want help??? Why not show some respect??? Just because your cause is noble doesnt give you the right to INSULT posters and in doing so you may harm support for your case.
I have a full and happy life THANK YOU and am involved in numerous causes and volunteer work in my community(as well as raising my 4 kids).W/S is a HOBBY!! Are you going to suggest knitters,model ship builders,gardeners etc "GET A LIFE" because of their hobbies?? I think not so you shouldnt do so here.
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Well said - You go girl!
 
wordsnmorewords said:
He was returned to prison on an alleged parole violation and died of a cerebral hemorrhage on Aug. 30, 2002.
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Alleged? What, was this parole violation fabricated? If not, then I don't have a problem with him being locked up, even if the Smart investigation predicated it. A violation is a violation.
 
therunner, not every poster at websleuths thinks every person suspected, arrested, accused, or even convicted is necessarily guilty, but I can understand how a quick cursory observation might lead you to that conclusion.

You will find that it's always a small minority of posters of take the position of innocent or even innocent until proven guilty. A few of us might even continue to take a position of innocent even though found guilty in court.

Good luck with your quest to help the family of Lisa Ann Bourquardez find justice for her murder. From the email you received from AMO you may have already observed that attempting to bully the responses you want isn't always going to work.


messiecake, inviting therunner to leave isn't exactly encouraging discussion and showing respect for a fellow poster.
 
Hammerized, the parole violation was supposedly Ricci's possession of a single beer. The violation was questionable, following police suspicion of Ricci in the Smart kidnapping.

The prison settled a suit brought by Ricci's widow for about $150,000.
 
LovelyPigeon said:
the parole violation was supposedly Ricci's possession of a single beer.
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I guess with a 29-year criminal history of crimes like armed robbery, burglary, attempted homicide, and escaping from prison... they caught him however they could. I don't find it questionable at all. I don't see how it could be "false arrest" when drinking alcohol is in violation of his supervised parole. There is that tricky thing called "probable cause" which is on the side of LE. He could even have been returned to custody/held on just *suspicion* of parole violation.

I see he was actually charged with stealing things from two homes where he worked- the Smarts' and one other. So, yeah, he belonged in jail- at least for those offenses.

As to his being shackled all the time and held in solitary... well yeah, they'd do that with a criminal who has escaped from prison before, wouldn't they?
 
Elizabeth Smart's uncle has a new book out on the case, and even the family condemns police actions toward Ricci.

Police focused on Ricci even as Mary Katherine Smart, Elizabeth’s younger sister and the only witness to the abduction, said the former Smart handyman was not the man she saw come into the girls’ shared room. - http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/nation/11429413.htm

http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_2667132

http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_2664014

Did Ricci actually steal items or was that part of police strategy to keep him under wraps for interrogation? I don't know but it is obvious that Ricci was not involved in spite of singular police focus on him--in spite of the sister's eyewitness account that the man who took ES was NOT Ricci.

Constantly shackled, held in solitary, and hooded does not sound like routine treatment for any prisoner. Ricci was being pressured for confession and information on Elizabeth Smart's case.
 
Bhodirasta said:
I just heard my favourite program on radio. THIS AMERICAN LIFE on NPR.
As I have said, I didn't follow this case WS style..

On of the acts on the Life (there are usually 4) featured Salt Lake city Mormons. One of the family members that was so close to Elizabeth, as well as the gal that saw her at the party, and told her that she looked "familliar". (she was in her white veil). It was VERY INTERESTING that all of these people actually KNEW that this man Mitchell had "taken on" another wife. They turned their heads. The family that grew up just a block from Elizabeth (a boy, now seventeen that went to school with her) saw Mitchell with his new wife, and didn't say anything. The gal who saw her at the party, KNEW that this was his new wife, and actually said "I didn't think anything of it" My favourite part of the story was this...

Mitchell was no boogy man. The boogy man hides under your bed and jumps out and attacks you- he is mean and he is a MONSTER. Mitchell was no "monster". And somehow he figured out how to trick an entire town because when people see something they don't like, or feel pity for, they simply turn thier heads. Mitchell knew this, and he held power over the entire land with this knowledge.......................


The trail will not go through, because of embarassment- the actual FACT that these people KNEW he had taken on a plural wife, a plural wife so young that it would constitute pedophilia- but yet, the town turned its head.


Wasn't it 1973???
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I am currently dealing with this mentality.
When people have an idea that something horrible
or wrong is going on, but instead of questioning it,
they turn and look the other way.
my posts are in the Jury room under Need Advice I believe.
 
stlouischili said:
I think Elizabeth Smart was deprogrammed awfully quickly for someone who had Stockholm Syndrome. It is my understanding that people who have truly suffered from this have taken months of therapy to recover. If I recall correctly, Elizabeth, according to her father, was back to her old self, playing the harp and modeling new clothes for her family within hours of her return.
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Yes, so they say. I take that statement with a grain of salt. Perhaps wishful thinking on her family's part but I wouldn't be surprised if in reality, it was quite the contrary given the facts as we know them to be. I can't imagine the horror and fear that Elizabeth had to endure.
 
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600136325,00.html

Brian David Mitchell was in his defense chair only seconds before shouting Biblical admonitions to the court: "Awaken, arise Israel. Come forth, Babylon. Repent, repent for the kingdom."
Mitchell's loud voice could be heard from down the hall after he was taken away — his fifth consecutive removal from the competency proceedings. The hearing resumed Tuesday after a two-month break.
Prosecution expert Noel Gardner, who testified in March that Mitchell was competent to stand trial, resumed his testimony. In spite of Mitchell's repeated interruptions, Judge Judith Atherton has allowed the hearings to continue without him.
Gardner testified that Mitchell's conduct Tuesday was "outrageous and bizarre" but not evident of a mental disease.
"I think his (religious) ideas are extraordinarily irrational but just because you're irrational doesn't mean you have a mental disease. All of us hold irrational ideas," Gardner said.
Of the outbursts, defense mental health expert Stephen Golding has said Mitchell vowed to do everything possible to disrupt the trial and has said he will not allow Elizabeth — who he contends is his wife — to be questioned on the witness stand.
Golding didn't diagnose Mitchell as schizophrenic but also had not ruled it out, he earlier testified.

Why don't they do like they are doing in some other trials in some other states. Leave Mitchell at the jail and give him a live video feed to observe the courtroom. Then he can disrupt all he likes and no one (other than the guards) will notice.
 
Mental health experts on Wednesday attacked each other's diagnoses of accused Elizabeth Smart kidnapper Brian David Mitchell - each finding fault with the other's methods.
Meanwhile, fans of Mitchell's courtroom antics were not disappointed.
The 51-year-old homeless street preacher shouted religious rebukes - as he did on Tuesday - and sang as he was escorted out of the courtroom.
"Awake, arise, oh virgin daughter of Zion!" Mitchell yelled. "Come forward unto the marriage. Suffereth the lamb! Repent! Repent!"
Mitchell's competency hearing began in February, resumed in March and will not conclude until at least July 7 - when the experts, attorneys and 3rd District Judge Judith Atherton have again agreed to meet

http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_2761364
 
mysteriew said:
Mental health experts on Wednesday attacked each other's diagnoses of accused Elizabeth Smart kidnapper Brian David Mitchell - each finding fault with the other's methods.
Meanwhile, fans of Mitchell's courtroom antics were not disappointed.
The 51-year-old homeless street preacher shouted religious rebukes - as he did on Tuesday - and sang as he was escorted out of the courtroom.
"Awake, arise, oh virgin daughter of Zion!" Mitchell yelled. "Come forward unto the marriage. Suffereth the lamb! Repent! Repent!" Mitchell's competency hearing began in February, resumed in March and will not conclude until at least July 7 - when the experts, attorneys and 3rd District Judge Judith Atherton have again agreed to meet

http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_2761364
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Hmmm.
I wonder who he was talking about???
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
http://tv.ksl.com/index.php?nid=5&sid=220158

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Sister Recounts Elizabeth Smart's Abduction
Jul. 20, 2005
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- The only witness to the abduction of Elizabeth Smart is telling her story to ABC News/Primetime" during an interview tomorrow night. <snip>
 
It was while looking at a copy of "The Guinness Book of World Records" that Mary Katherine Smart remembered the name of a mysterious roofer she believed may have kidnapped her sister, Elizabeth.

That's one of the bits of information Mary Katherine talks about tonight during an interview on ABC News' "Primetime Live" with Diane Sawyer. The show will air a segment called "Brave Hearts" in which several young children, including Mary Katherine, are interviewed about witnessing horrific crimes committed against family members but were able to courageously help solve the cases.

Mary Katherine, now 13, talked for the first time to Sawyer about that night and the months that followed.
"I was sort of awake and I saw this guy in my room, and I'm like, 'Who is he?' And I had no idea what he was doing in my room. I saw him come over to my side and then I saw him walk over to Elizabeth and he tapped her, and she's like, 'What is it?' And I guess she thought it was me," Mary Katherine told Sawyer.
Mary Katherine said she was amazed at how calm Elizabeth remained.

"If I was her, I would have like screamed my head off. I don't know how she did it," she said.
After Elizabeth was taken from the room, Mary Katherine got out of bed and peered out the entry of her room. She thought she saw the man again and went back to her bed, where she stayed for approximately two hours before waking her father.
"I thought, you know, be quiet, because if he hears you, he might take you, too, and you're the only person who has seen this and you have to tell them so they know. I was like shaking," she said.
When Mary Katherine finally went to her father's room and told him, she said he raced straight to the girls' room, "and I told him you're not going to find her," she said.
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600150021,00.html
 
This is OT, I know, but I don't know where to post something like this. I will delete it no later than 10 pm PDT (unless mods want me to move it somewhere earlier) as it is just a heads up for those interested.

Diane Sawyer is going to be interviewing Elizabeth Smart's sister, Mary Katherine, about the part she played in helping solve her sister's disappearance.

Also, allegedly others (children, I think), who witnessed abductions and/or violent crimes will be interviewed.

Tune in to tonight's ABC's Prime Time Live, which airs tonight at 10 pm, if you'd like to see it.

Note to Mods: I will delete this thread after 10pm, or you can pm me and tell me where it should be posted. Thanks!

Eta: At the top of the program they mentioned Shasta Groene and may cover her later in the program, so this may not be OT afterall. :)
 
They only had the little blurb at the beginning of the program about Shasta. The interview with Mary Katherine was okay. I wasn't overly impressed with the program, but others might be.
 
I was out tonight, but I recorded it and I just got home and am popping the tape in now!

I was wondering if they'd mention Shasta, even though the program was supposed to be more about children who helped solved crimes rather than children who were actually victims of crimes...
 
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/07/26/smart.suspect/index.html


"The man accused of kidnapping teenager Elizabeth Smart from her home in Salt Lake City, Utah, three years ago has been found incompetent to stand trial.
In a decision handed down Tuesday, District Judge Judith Atherton ordered Brian David Mitchell confined for mental treatment until he reaches competency.

Last September, Mitchell pleaded not guilty to kidnapping and five other felony counts, including aggravated burglary and aggravated sexual assault."
 
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