Found Alive UT - Holly Suzanne Courtier, 38, Zion National Park, 6 Oct 2020 #2

doublestop

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Holly Suzanne Courtier was last seen in Zion NP park on October 6, 2020 at about 1:30 p.m.

Courtier was dropped off at the Grotto parking area by a private shuttle, and was scheduled to be picked up at 4:40 p.m. that same day. She did not return for her scheduled pickup.

Courtier is 38 years old, 5'03" tall, and weighs approximately 125 pounds. She has brown hair and blue eyes. Her intended travel plan from the Grotto parking area and her current whereabouts are unknown. An active search for her is underway in Zion National Park, and US Park Rangers are investigating this missing person case with Washington County Sheriff's Office.

NPS Investigative Services Branch

Thread #1
 
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Sillybilly

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JudgeJoe

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Ok, going back to things we "know".

HC did not make it further than half a mile from Grotto stop. That would have taken at best only 20 minutes from where she was dropped off.

That was where she hung her hammock and where she subsequently hit her head on the tree rendering her incapable and disorientated.

Why did she not trek a little further to find a beauty spot to hang that hammock? Instead of next to a picnic area?
I don’t think we know where she hung her hammock day 1- just where a tipster saw it the day she was found. Idk why not crawl back to the trailhead.
 

LietKynes

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Ok, going back to things we "know".

HC did not make it further than half a mile from Grotto stop. That would have taken at best only 20 minutes from where she was dropped off.

That was where she hung her hammock and where she subsequently hit her head on the tree rendering her incapable and disorientated.

Why did she not trek a little further to find a beauty spot to hang that hammock? Instead of next to a picnic area?
Thanks for the confirmation about the hammock.
I was curious about that.
 

RickshawFan

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I'm not aware of a case where the public wanted to know additional details about the search. Is the NPS search report for HC a matter of public record or does this fall in the jurisdiction of the Washington County Sheriff's office?

It's really too bad this family didn't stop at the published thank you released by NPS and leave the details for the public to the Sheriff and/or NPS.

missing-person-found - Zion National Park (U.S. National Park Service)
Mountaineering SARs are often published. If you're actually in Washington, you might be interested in the SARs on Rainier. I find them fascinating: I read them all the time, especially for the Cascades (you'll see them in mountaineering mags, too).

Here's one source: Search and Rescue Reports - Mount Rainier National Park (U.S. National Park Service)
 

Seni

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I love random serendipitous moments... Someone mentioned the word "whistle" to me, and I'm off and running, oh my gosh!

Woah! A whistle! I didn't even think of that! There's one attached to that pack she has. She didn't use it! A whistle is way more effective than yelling, because it carries better and it doesn't tire out your voice.

And it's built into the buckle on the sternum strap. It's not like you can take it off the pack unless you want to make an essential element useless.

I totally know this because I'm a pack-fit maven and I orient pack owners to the whistle feature just in case they have an emergency. The whistle is situated right in front of your chin, so it's right there when you need it.

She had to have known there was a whistle.... She didn't use it.

Are you ready for this? I took a photo! I don't have my Osprey Ariel with me, so I took a photo of the same thing on another pack. (The Osprey Ariel is the pack she bought or maybe the men's version of that).

Gosh, I'm so clever sometimes...

***** How do I upload a photo?


Cool, I have whistles on the windows of our apartment, we have seen all kinds of things happening below on the street. You whistle, they stop doing what they are doing, wondering where it is coming from .
 
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iamnotagolem

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Mountaineering SARs are often published. If you're actually in Washington, you might be interested in the SARs on Rainier. I find them fascinating: I read them all the time, especially for the Cascades (you'll see them in mountaineering mags, too).

Here's one source: Search and Rescue Reports - Mount Rainier National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

In our last county they published details from all of their SARS too. I like reading how they went about the search and what methods they use for rescue. Kids stuck on a lake, kids on a hike crossed a stream on a nice day then snow melted up high and stream turned into a raging river, ice climber fell, etc. just interesting reading.
 

LietKynes

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And they have posted sincere updates, acknowledging discrepancies, and offering refunds without resistance.

A complaint, with or without their very well written update, would have been cause for the platform to investigate, right?
bbm
A link to the families' statement regarding offering to to refund without resistance would be good.
Otherwise it's courteous to place an "In my opinion" after your comment to differentiate between the facts of this case and your opinions.
It's easy to say you will happily return all of the crowd funding money but another thing to actually do it.
My guess is that they're not going to want to let go of this windfall.

Agreed with you ... it IS a mysterious case !
Not sure if criminal, though, as the sheriff didn't come out and say it was a 'scam'; but a troubling one for sure what with the family first saying she hit her head early on and then LE saying there was no head injury.
Along with the families' other conflicting evidence.
IMO
 

Seattle1

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That’s odd. I’m not aware of a case the public didn’t want to know search details. Aubree, Jaxon, Stephanie, Hawaii lady, FL hotel lady- just a few, many more. Some WSers have gone so far as to seek ME reports or death certificates, FOIA requests, etc. Nothing unusual having similar interest in this case, imo.
To be clear, I'm referring to cases where no foul play involved or suspicious death. I'm talking about a lost hiker that was found safe where the case is most likely closed, and where the hiker walks away and never looks back. The cases you cite have nothing in common with my reference. I'm familiar with how the FOIA works but never made a request without a cause number. If you don't know, no worries.
 

Seattle1

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In our last county they published details from all of their SARS too. I like reading how they went about the search and what methods they use for rescue. Kids stuck on a lake, kids on a hike crossed a stream on a nice day then snow melted up high and stream turned into a raging river, ice climber fell, etc. just interesting reading.
Perfect -- thanks for your courtesy and a direct answer to my question! I have a starting point for my inquiry.
 

Seni

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In our last county they published details from all of their SARS too. I like reading how they went about the search and what methods they use for rescue. Kids stuck on a lake, kids on a hike crossed a stream on a nice day then snow melted up high and stream turned into a raging river, ice climber fell, etc. just interesting reading.

There is a SAR rescue report on Zion Park website also.
 

RickshawFan

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To be clear, I'm referring to cases where no foul play involved or suspicious death. I'm talking about a lost hiker that was found safe where the case is most likely closed, and where the hiker walks away and never looks back. The cases you cite have nothing in common with my reference. I'm familiar with how the FOIA works but never made a request without a cause number. If you don't know, no worries.
This, exactly.My reference ^^^, whether the hiker comes out alive, is medevac-ed, broke their leg, fell 300 meters of a glacier, forgot their boots, was wearing jeans, didn't have their 10 essentials, ignored the weather. Got up a cliff, but couldn't get down (one of my faves). The entire range of guilt-trip possibilities, a veritable catalog of everything you might have done wrong. From the safety of your living room, this is scintillating reading IMO.
 

JudgeJoe

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To be clear, I'm referring to cases where no foul play involved or suspicious death. I'm talking about a lost hiker that was found safe where the case is most likely closed, and where the hiker walks away and never looks back. The cases you cite have nothing in common with my reference. I'm familiar with how the FOIA works but never made a request without a cause number. If you don't know, no worries.
Actually the Hawaii lady is exactly that. There’s also the cliff lady later brought up on fraud charges. Linked earlier upthread. With the sheriff’s reporting in this case, there will be a follow up report and there will be people seeking to read it. Not sure what the issue is.
 

Seattle1

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Each of the rescuers working the Zion park are volunteers, and they have broken their record at 135-- and the park still open.

Washington County breaks record for search and rescue calls in 2020 | ABC4 Utah

Posted: Sep 29, 2020 / 04:05 PM MDT / Updated: Oct 6, 2020 / 04:54 PM MDT
Stories of survival: adventures with search and rescue
“At the rate we’re going, we’re going to be in the 160 range for rescues,” Cashin said. “I’m concerned when we start pushing 180’s or 200’s. When you’re calling your volunteers that much, it’s becoming a job that they’re not being paid for.”

In a normal year, when temperatures push 105 or 110 degrees, calls for rescues tend to decrease significantly. This year, that didn’t happen. In fact, based on current figures, search and rescue teams are receiving a call-out every 2.03 days on average, according to Cashin.
 
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