Found Alive UT - Holly Suzanne Courtier, 38, Zion National Park, 6 Oct 2020 #2

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by doublestop, Oct 10, 2020.

  1. MsMarple

    MsMarple Well-Known Member

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    Lol, I can see the title now - Miracle in Zion.

    Seriously though I suspect any thoughts about books, interviews and articles are now down the toilet; it's awfully hard to sell the impossible.

    I see that the online fundraiser is now removed completely. I'm not sure what that means. Apparently the organizer can request whether to simply "close" the fund or have all traces removed. Given that the recipient can withdraw funds at any time I doubt we'll see what happened.

    If there hadn't been an attempt to mislead the public I wouldn't have cared about the family asking for funds for food, travel and lodging during the search and I wouldn't have cared about a request to help HC work through her stay in a "mental wellness" center after she was found. I wouldn't donate regardless but IMO a straightforward plea for financial help is acceptable.

    IMO exaggerating or downright lying is never acceptable. FGS, just tell the truth and let people decide if they want to help! MOO.
     


  2. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    Yep.
     
  3. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    I hope NPS has removed it by now. It's illegal grafitti: vandalism.
     
  4. oviedo

    oviedo Well-Known Member

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    Or evidence ?

    jmo
     
  5. dmac55

    dmac55 Well-Known Member

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    Yes
    It was the not telling anyone i was thinking about

    From your link:
    "The sister confirmed that Holly had left the park in the middle of the night and did not tell her family where was going, planning to disconnect from technology, pray and read the Bible, and fast."
     
  6. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    HC might have had low potassium levels before the trip. This can happen with dieting. Remember Karen Carpenter? When the level gets too low, it can create heart arrythmias IIRC.
     
  7. LAhiker

    LAhiker Well-Known Member

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    You've correctly reproduced the sentence from ABC4, which contains an interesting typo: "Holly had left the park in the middle of the night..." o_O

    Presumably, they intended to say that she had left her home in the middle of the night.

    And I guess they mean that they later found out that she planned to go on a spiritual journey. Or that she'd been talking for days about fasting and taking a spiritual journey. Not that she woke up her roommate in the middle of the night and said "I'm leaving on a spiritual journey, but I won't tell you where I'm going...."

    ETA: The piece also has the same three photos that were in the Today article, this time credited to "Courtier family."

    JMO
     
  8. BlkMtnGirl

    BlkMtnGirl Well-Known Member

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    I’m so sorry to just pop in, but those marks are photoshopped. There’s just not enough variation in color and they don’t curve with the tree branch. I’m not great at photo manipulation, but I’ve got 30 years of experience in graphics. This looks like my work. Lol.
     
  9. ColyH

    ColyH Well-Known Member

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    This woman clearly has no backwoods experience. Drinking from streams is very unhealthy and is survival 101 yet she doesn't have any better common sense than that. Next time she wants to do a publicity stunt she should do a little research and get her family and friends together so they can get their story straight.
     
  10. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    Good catch. My mind whiplashed right there, too, but I couldn't figure out why. Freudian slip maybe. She left the Park in the middle of the night.

    What was the Courtier family doing taking photos in the bushes along the Virgin River? maybe they were taken on a scouting trip the two weeks before?
     
  11. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    Funny, I didn't even think of photo-shopped. That's why the second set is exactly identical to the first. Every little stroke. Just copy and paste. I thought it meant she did them all at the same time; but you're right, because even if she did them at the same time, she wouldn't have been able to make identical hash marks.
    As I mentioned upthread, the hash marks are clones! I guess that would be exactly correct: copied and pasted. Clones indeed.
     
  12. mrstfs

    mrstfs Well-Known Member

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    Snipped first focus...lol yes.. made me think, isn’t Zion a Biblical reference?
     
  13. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    The Virgin River water is fatally undrinkable at the current time. Filter offers no safety. LE is very clear about this. If she'd drunk it, she'd be dead. Ergo, she had a supply from somewhere else.
     
  14. LAhiker

    LAhiker Well-Known Member

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    It could be a Freudian slip on the part of the reporter, who also broke the story about Sgt. Cashin raising questions about the case:
    Sheriff's Sgt. raises questions in Zion's missing person case of Holly Courtier

    The photos are the same ones that were attributed to Holly Courtier and that we've been discussing. Maybe the family figured that because they've said Courtier is in a mental health treatment facility, it would be odd to say photos were from her? I don't know.

    JMO
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
  15. cujenn81

    cujenn81 Well-Known Member

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    Questions remain about Woodland Hills woman found alive after going missing in Zion National Park

    “Her younger sister Jillian Oliver, told The Times that she had seen Courtier days before she left for Zion and that her sister seemed in good spirits.”

    “They were having dinner, but Courtier told Oliver that she wasn’t eating anything because she was fasting, which was something she did with some regularity.”

    Holly Courtier planned to go on spiritual journey, fast inside Zion National Park, family says

    “At each meeting, the search and rescue teams would say again that she didn’t have any food or water. Oliver reminded herself that because her sister fasted so often, maybe she’d be able to survive.

    “Strong said the family took Courtier to the emergency room and a doctor allegedly diagnosed her with a concussion, although the family said Holly had decided to forgo a MRI or CAT scan.

    ETA —
    I love how the reporter says that a doctor allegedly diagnosed her with a concussion.

    The thing that raised a red flag for me (from the beginning) was the wording on her *** page prior to her rescue. They mentioned that a portion of the donations made would be used to pay for her healthcare and therapy whenever she was found. It’s not unusual for family to stay positive and hold on to that hope that their loved one will eventually be found... but IME their thoughts and energy are typically focused solely on finding their loved one first. They tend to worry about the aftermath after the fact. I’ve seen families hope and pray and plead and beg for their loved ones to return, but I’ve never seen anyone talk about it like it was foregone conclusion until now.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
  16. mrstfs

    mrstfs Well-Known Member

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    Supplemental Press Release ZNP Missing Person Case | WCSO

    Excerpt: “At this point in the investigation, there has been no evidence to support the theory that the incident was committed intentionally as an effort to achieve financial gain. However, we ask that any credible information submitted is based on tangible leads, and/or evidence which can be shared with investigators. Tips regarding this case should be submitted to tips@washeriff.net


    (The above excerpt only refers to the “go fund me”.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
  17. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    Snipped for focus
    NPS said this before they had tips. They had tips on October 13. That was only a few days into the trip. IMO after that they knew she was playing hide and seek.
    I don't recall NPS saying HC definitively didn't have food or water. The sergeant was VERY clear she had water.
    All this is cherry-picking, taking words out of context.
     
  18. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    BBM. This. He doesn't say the incident wasn't committed intentionally. He says it wasn't committed intentionally for financial gain. Big difference.

    In this whole supplement, as a matter of fact, he focuses on the money issue. Not whether an investigation is taking place, not whether a ticket will be issued, not the circumstances. Only the rumors about money.

    Nowhere does he say or imply the case is dead. In fact, he requests tips! This last point should really spook the Courtier family, because it means they're still open to investigating them.


    He also niftily defers to NPS as being in charge of the incident. The sheriff's office was merely a "consultant" handling the LE aspect. So, "go ask them; they have a handle on it. [PS They aren't going to tell you anything.]"

    This sheriff is very clever! His wording has been very exact. He manages to reveal nothing and say everything. It's a matter of what he is conveying, not words you can just glance through.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
  19. cujenn81

    cujenn81 Well-Known Member

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    He also states that the sheriff’s office stands behind Sgt. Cashin’s initial statement. I find that to be most telling of all.
     
  20. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    He even doubles down and gets explicit: "..... circumstances of Courtier’s recovery which were not consistent with our training and experience. These inconsistencies raised some questions as to the authenticity of the events as reported to law enforcement."

    This whole statement should make Courtiers' eyeballs fall out. The sheriff could just have not said anything. Just be LE and not communicative! Let everything just die down. But here he is with another shot over the bow: letting on that this is still a live issue, by no means a dead one!

    And, just in case the Courtiers are planning to make money off the scam, they'd better not even think about it. Right now, he's thinking there's not a case, but his mind could be changed erm...he just needs a tip.

    I wonder if he knows about the photo-shopped hash marks? And if they were real, he's got a case for vandalism.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2020

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