Found Alive UT - Holly Suzanne Courtier, 38, Zion National Park, 6 Oct 2020 #2

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by doublestop, Oct 10, 2020.

  1. Seni

    Seni Well-Known Member

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    Ok, lets pick up "fasting" issue. HC was fasting days prior to her trip to Zion, which meant an even longer stint of abstinence.

    As a couple of posters have pointed out, a water only fast may bring many benefits. Recommendations are that these fasts do not exceed 48 hours, do not drive or operate machinery in the meantime.

    Blood sugar and pressure levels may be affected.
     


  2. Seattle1

    Seattle1 #LiveLikeLizzy

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    Holly Courtier planned to go on spiritual journey, fast inside Zion National Park, family says

    Oct 22, 2020

    [​IMG]

    38-year old Holly Courtier, the Woodland Hills mom who went missing inside the Zion National Park on Oct. 6, has checked herself into a mental health facility to process some trauma she “has not dealt with” for several years, her family told ABC News.

    41-year-old Jaime Strong, one of Holly’s sisters, said that Courtier had likely suffered a mental breakdown and had planned to go on a spiritual journey while eating no food or water for a couple of days inside the national park.

    “I think she went in there mentally wanting to be there, and then I think she was stuck in there physically,” Strong said. “She was in over her head and had no way to get out.”

    [..]

    Courtier was unaware that there were search parties looking for her and signs posted throughout the park because she was disoriented, the family said. Courtier kept track of the number of days she was lost by writing them in black marker on a tree, per a photo provided to ABC News.

    Strong said the family took Courtier to the hospital immediately after finding her at the park, where they say a doctor diagnosed Holly with a concussion and potential nerve damage in her feet. The family said Courtier had lost approximately 18 pounds while out in the wilderness.

    ETA: Additional photos at link. Maybe the hammock ? Citing a doctor diagnosis can also be confirmed by authorities.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
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  3. ADudeInUtah

    ADudeInUtah Active Member

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  4. JudgeJoe

    JudgeJoe Well-Known Member

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    Now nerve damage to feet? So much for quitting while one’s ahead. Mo
     
  5. Seni

    Seni Well-Known Member

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    :)
     
  6. JudgeJoe

    JudgeJoe Well-Known Member

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    A lot of backpackers take a sharpie for various reasons. Marking the days would be a good use- but usually on duct tape from your pack- or your hand- not a tree.
     
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  7. LietKynes

    LietKynes "Law is the ultimate science" Liet Kynes

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    The sheriff said there was no evidence of a concussion.
    These are the facts of which we have few and the family keeps changing their story.
    The family had to think of something.
    There is no way they're going to let that money go.
    Imo.
     
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  8. Seni

    Seni Well-Known Member

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    Re- fasting.
    Could it have been in anticipation of a Ayahuasca/Yagé type event?
     
  9. Winterhike

    Winterhike Well-Known Member

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    It seems notable/odd that her sisters in particular cannot quit speaking to the media at this point. It seems likely that they are telling themselves they are defending HC's reputation, but IMO at this point they are doing the opposite. I agree with the posters upthread who said that once HC had been located, her family and supporters really only needed to give one brief update and then end with "we request privacy" and then this would have probably faded from the news. There's absolutely no reason for any of these details and backtracking about concussions, nerve damage, pounds lost, dehydrated mouths, intentional fasting, etc.

    Now that they've put all that out into the media universe, however, it does start me wondering about HC's background even more than I would have. I wonder if deep down her sisters have some resentment about the impact her unresolved trauma and other mental health struggles have had on them. Maybe they have been covering for her for a long time and it is just their pattern. When her sister JS said "we had to explain to her...[that disappearing for 12 days is not normal]," it seemed an odd way to put it. Does HC tend to need a lot of things that functional adults usually know explained to her? Has her family been exhausted by some of her needs? What has it been like to grow up being her child? If she is struggling with trauma, how long has that been going on?

    I also wonder about the job situation. Like many other elements of this story, we have more information than we probably need and that makes it seem more likely that what's been said is not the whole truth. She was a nanny and the family who employed her "could not afford to pay her." Sure, that's a common (and heartbreaking) scenario in the pandemic. But maybe the family also didn't trust her judgment and that's part of why she lost her nanny job? She might be a lovely and caring person and might even have excellent judgment when things are going well with her mental health, but maybe that's not always true, since it's been said she's had unresolved trauma for awhile.
     
  10. Vacajoe

    Vacajoe Well-Known Member

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    Actually, damage to one’s feet is a common outcome due to poor circulation caused by dehydration, low blood sugar, body going into shock, hypothermia, and other things that HC may have experienced. While I think this entire story is 99% BS, this is actually the 1% that I could believe.

    So to sum up the latest: the family knew she was having a MH crisis and that she was planning to stealth camp in Zion (which involves hiding from authorities). Now wouldn’t that have been good to know at the beginning of the SAR?
     
  11. LAhiker

    LAhiker Well-Known Member

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    BBM

    If I understand correctly, I think you're saying that Holly may have lucked out with the water in the river. While I guess that's possible, @Vacajoe says bikers in the Narrows upstream often roil the water:
    Also, cyanobacteria isn't the only bad thing in the water. According the the NPS, it may be contaminated from rangeland upstream. (I guessing that they're referring to e coli.)
    Water Sources in Zion - Zion National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

    And then there's Giardia:
    Zion National Park

    I believe these last two pathogens can be filtered out, so maybe she had a filter. But given all the warnings that are reported to be posted around the park, I doubt she drank the river water. As others have noted, there was potable water available at a restroom that wasn't far away.

    One take-home message: If you go to Zion National Park,

    DON'T DRINK THE WATER!

    At least, not from the river. Research any other water sources carefully and filter or treat the water if necessary & possible. (Actually, almost all water in the wild should be filtered. As far as I know, springs without giardia or other contamination are rare.)
    JMO
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
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  12. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    That’s not the point. If you don’t call everyday then failing to call would not cause a search to occur.
     
  13. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    Is that a halucinogenic trip?
     
  14. Seni

    Seni Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if allowed. So deleted.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
  15. Vacajoe

    Vacajoe Well-Known Member

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    HIKERS! I meant HIKERS (not “bikers”) in the river roiling up the algae!!!! Sorry about any confusion from that typo.
     
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  16. Lilibet

    Lilibet Watching & Waiting

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    I agree that a phone is a basic safety tool. My husband doesn’t leave the house to go for a short walk without hearing me say “Do you have your phone?” I may need to reach him for some reason or he may have a health incident and need to call for help. I don’t remind him to take bear spray, however, but the way things are going nowadays maybe I should! :D
     
  17. Auntie_Seagull

    Auntie_Seagull Well-Known Member

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    You can filter out Giardia and E.Coli, but you cannot filter out the cyanobacteria toxins. The cyanobacteria itself, sure, but not the toxins they produce. And then there is that:

    https://nypost.com/2020/10/22/holly-courtiers-sister-refutes-doubts-on-zion-national-park-rescue/

    Survive for almost two weeks with only wetting your lips, but drinking nothing, and then not to land in the ICU? I find it quite difficult to believe.

    From the same article:

    Uhm, yeah... Nothing here fits.
     
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  18. wary

    wary Well-Known Member

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    I’m confused. If Choice B is certain death from dehydration? I’d pick Choice A.
     
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  19. Orgona

    Orgona Well-Known Member

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    But she did not drink according to the family. She was out there wetting her lips with it. Which too makes it impossible to survive for 12 days, or let say 8 in a case she had some water with her for 4 days or so. No wonder the Sheriff’s office said something.

    What is also questionable, is that she was disoriented, but organized enough to remember to mark the very same tree with very nice straight lines every day with a sharpie she needed to remember where to find every time. I don’t know if I could mark a tree that nice in my clear state of mind...
    She must have been staying there all the time or found her her way back to the same tree in her disoriented state day after day.
     
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  20. azure

    azure Well-Known Member

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    FWIW, a concussion that doesn't result in bleeding can't be seen on an MRI. Doctors generally diagnose them based on a reported hit to the head and reported symptoms. So even a Dr. dx here would not, IMO, be confirmation.

    Source: competitive equestrian for over 20 years.
     

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