Found Alive UT - Holly Suzanne Courtier, 38, Zion National Park, 6 Oct 2020 #2

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by doublestop, Oct 10, 2020.

  1. mickey2942

    mickey2942 Well-Known Member

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  2. swedeheart

    swedeheart Well-Known Member

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  3. mickey2942

    mickey2942 Well-Known Member

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  4. mrstfs

    mrstfs Well-Known Member

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    I’m always open to changing my view on something as more facts are introduced. My current opinion is this was planned. I can’t explain all of my reasons for this due to rules. However one big reason for my current opinion is - why lie about the water and introduce a miracle into this. I don’t believe her family would make this up. I think they were pushing a narrative from HC. Another reason for my current opinion are the “sharpie marks”. Anyway, that’s just my current opinion only.
     
  5. Quiet Time

    Quiet Time Well-Known Member

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    You mean the 'perfectly straight, all nice and uniform, consistent looking, all brightly in your face...sharpie marks?' ^^^^^^^^^^^

    imo
     
  6. Trebor5591

    Trebor5591 Well-Known Member

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    Based on all of this, I will hazard a guess that her career as a nanny is over.
     
  7. MsMarple

    MsMarple Well-Known Member

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    HC's sister's blaring contradiction about the ******** campaign that was pointed out by @cujenn81 IMO is further proof that the family is trying to spin lies about those 12 days.

    Their motive? Who knows? But once again they can't have it both ways - either they wanted to continue collecting donations as stated on the campaign page or else they "forgot" about all that money.

    Why does the family feel they need to lie? At this point we don't know what kind of "mental wellness" facility HC is in or if she even had a mental crisis. What if she just wanted to get out of the public's eye?

    IMO once someone publicly asks for money and goes to msm with claims then the public is justified in scrutinizing what's being said. And in this case the Sheriff's office is also investigating. MOO.
     
  8. Ninja Bunny

    Ninja Bunny Well-Known Member

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    ‘The Sheriff’s sergeant has made it 10 times worse for [Kailey],’ Strong said. ‘I've never even seen him or met him. This is someone who looked at some paperwork and looked at things on paper. He wasn't there. I think it might be easy to look at a few things on paper and make conclusions. He’s taken something and blown it out of proportion and the attention has gone to him. The focus should actually be on the rangers and search and rescue team.’

    Ah, yes, blame LE. Where have I seen that before, hmmm?

    It’s not the seargant’s fault HC’s story doesn’t add up. She got water from somewhere that wasn’t the river and she didn’t pack it in. Don’t feed me any “miracle” BS either. Time to start telling the truth.
     
  9. LovesMoose

    LovesMoose Member

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    It's too easy whipping this up into a Go Fund Me fraud case. I just don't get that vibe from Holly's sister, who created the account. I don't at all feel that her daughter Kailey is involved.

    What struck me as curious was that Holly took off in the middle of the night. But curious isn't the same thing as odd. I enjoy driving at night. It's soothing. And if you're ready to go, why wait.

    As for not telling her roommate, were they close? But leaving her phone behind and not telling the roommate, those two details together would naturally be quite alarming. Her daughter has said that Holly wanted to be unencumbered with technology. She chose to embark on an adventure totally off grid. This seems to indicate that Kailey knew of her mother's plans.

    But again, the roommate claims not to have known.

    I could feel Holly's vibrant, strong energy and suspected she was alive. I was fixated on her crystal pendant for some reason. You can see it in the photos. This all felt very intentional to me, and I had no sense of something malicious happening to her inside the park.

    The police are saying there are holes in Holly's story and with the family. I'm not so sure about that. There isn't much room for being different, venturing out on your own in the middle of the night, especially for women. There's an expectation that we conduct ourselves in a manner that meshes with other people's expectations. Holly is a seeker, an adventurer, and Zion and other national parks are her salve.

    Again, it's too easy weaving fragments together into a story that is at odds with the truth. This is how so many innocent people end up imprisoned.

    The one detail that has caught my attention is Holly's daily count of days lost in the park. If she's traveling minimally, why would she have a thick marker with her? Maybe she's an artist. But how many artists do you see in the national parks who sit down with colored markers, especially thick ones and in particular black? Watercolors, oils, pastels, Micron pens. But a Sharpie?

    I'm not so sure I'd bother to track the days were I to get lost. I'm also not so sure I'd be able to draw such consistently even marks for each day. I see no variation in the writing pressure, spacing, thickness. The alleged concussion aside, without food and water I think just holding a marker would become challenging. Drawing lines that all look exactly the same, day after day? No.

    Those black lines look as if they were all drawn together at the same time, on the same day, and this has become my primary concern.
     
  10. Vacajoe

    Vacajoe Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone accounted for the time between when she left LA and when she took the shuttle into Zion? It’s only an eight hour drive, so where was she those other Days?
     
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  11. Trebor5591

    Trebor5591 Well-Known Member

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    The two phrases are not necessarily mutually exclusive, IMHO. For example, an unstable, aging hippy disheartened with life might take a bunch of "shrooms" or other psychedelics into a beautiful wilderness area seeking God on a "spiritual journey", in their view, and stay incapacitated for days. To family members, such behavior might be considered a "mental health crisis" or a "mental breakdown". MOO
     
  12. LovesMoose

    LovesMoose Member

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    The controversy with the river water. Holly walked out of the park on her own. She was too dehydrated to scream. Law enforcement questions all of this.

    Have they experienced extreme dehydration?

    Sherri Papini claims she screamed so hard and long she tasted blood. People ripped her to pieces over that. So they've screamed just as intensely as she did and no blood? They know what that's like?

    There's how Holly physically felt when she was found. That rush of adrenaline maybe that enabled her to walk. Then there's law enforcement's perception of how was feeling, based on their observations and interpretation.

    I recall reading survival stories of people lost for weeks. When they were found they weren't puddles of flesh and bones on the ground. They could move, walk, talk, even laugh.

    It's safe to assume that law enforcement is withholding information. They know details we haven't been made privy to yet. False or inaccurate accusations are a huge deal. We're talking million dollar lawsuits, as happened with a falsely accused couple in California.

    So on its face, with what we know, it's fair to poke and question. It's not so fair to suggest fraud.

    But again, I'm hung up on that tree. (That sounds kind of funny, but it's Halloween, so okay.) Every day she was gone, she marked the tree. The count is accurate. This suggests she stayed in that locale and waited for a rescue. She was found a half mile from where she started, according to the news.

    With colorful clothing that seems to be her hallmark, why did it take twelve days? She was presumably stronger in the earlier days of her disappearance. That tree is the focal point if you ask me.
     
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  13. LadyL

    LadyL Well-Known Member

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    then I'm as outraged as you
     
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  14. MsMarple

    MsMarple Well-Known Member

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    IMO claiming LE is involved in some sort of conspiracy theory over the rescue of a nobody hiker from California and implying her family is going to sue them for a million dollars is not only baseless it's ludicrous.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2020
  15. monkey222

    monkey222 Well-Known Member

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    I try to stay "organized" with a pencil/pen caddy (...a cup.. ) on my countertop which is supposed to have a maker or highlighter or two. But, why is it that whenever I need a marker it is gone, the lid is missing, or it is dried up anyway. How is it that she managed to remember! to find! and take! that Super Saturated Sharpie.
     
  16. Auntie Cipation

    Auntie Cipation Context Matters.

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    IMO, a Sharpie would be a smart thing to include in a backpacker's supplies. It has all sorts of potential uses -- labelling food bags, marking clothing or packs, making a HELP sign, etc.

    But it seems like something a well-prepared-for-all-eventualities hiker would include -- not so much someone who was taking the bare minimum for a cathartic spiritual experience in nature.

    IMO
     
  17. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    Why doesn't she have medical care? CA has good healthcare; there's Obamacare and Medicaid.
     
  18. Auntie Cipation

    Auntie Cipation Context Matters.

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    I think the income threshhold for medicaid in California (medi-cal) is around $17-18,000 per year. Meaning if she earns more than that she isn't eligible for medicaid.

    And even Obamacare can be unaffordable to many.

    JMO
     
  19. MimosaMornings

    MimosaMornings Well- Known Member

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    When did Holly lose her nanny job? Was she a full time nanny for just one family?
     
  20. LadyL

    LadyL Well-Known Member

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    dbm
     
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