Found Alive UT - Holly Suzanne Courtier, 38, Zion National Park, 6 Oct 2020 #2

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by doublestop, Oct 10, 2020.

  1. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    Thanks for finding that. So he’s a very experienced rescuer. He goes out of his way to rescue people. He knows what’s real and what’s b.s.
     


  2. Vacajoe

    Vacajoe Well-Known Member

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    These types of stills replicate how nature creates rain, so I think the proof of its effectiveness is in the fact that we are not all dying from toxic algae rain! Here’s a link to learn more, as well as potential limitations.

    Solar still - Wikipedia
     
  3. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    Zion LE and SAR made clear HC didn't require hospitalization, otherwise they would have taken to hospital by ambulance, which they had standing by. This is something they have to evaluate at every rescue, so they are accustomed to it. SAR teams have qualified medical personnel and the ambulance at the trailhead would also have had medical personnel aboard, so there were plenty of qualified folks attending to the rescue.
    Rather, her family chose to take HC to a hospital.

    IMO we can get past the idea that there weren't people involved in the SAR that weren't qualified to assess the situation, evaluate it, bring their experience to bear. Any aspect of it: medical, factual, bruises, hide-and-seek, water toxicity.... None of that is arguable. It's what they do, and they have no motive to make stuff up.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2020
  4. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    Actually, the marks are vandalism. She defaced public property in an area this country has set aside for now and future generations. They are against the law. I hope she gets a big ticket for doing that.

    IMO the family is asking for unwanted attention by advertising the hashmarks. This will very likely backfire, perhaps in the form of a big fine.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2020
  5. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    Now that I think about it, I can reconstruct this scenario. See what you think, my fellow WSers.
    We can assume, since packs don’t sweat and produce water droplets, it must have rained or these lost hikers slept under overspray from a waterfall. For the packs to get wet, furthermore, they must not have brought a tent, since that’s generally where you want to put your pack to keep your stuff nice and dry. Unless, I suppose, you unpacked it, put your stuff in the tent and left your pack outside, which is certainly an option (though definitely not my fave).
    So, if we can assume rain and no tent, you would for sure be able to get water off your sleeping bag in the morning. No doubt in my mind. Actually, if you were very unlucky you could wring it and freshen up your water supply with a couple of liters or a gallon.
    And if you had the misfortune to leave your pack open, because you didn't know what you were doing, a big pack could hold perhaps 65 liters when full. Some would leak, so you’d have to quick slurp it up, but definitely I could see 5 days might be possible under those conditions...
    But I haven't ever seen an MSM write-up for a case like this.
    And I’d love to see it ‘cos it would be a rip-roaring good laugh. Imagine spinning a yarn about not having any water, when it’s obvious you did? This was where? When?
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2020
  6. Andreee

    Andreee Well-Known Member

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    oh please, if she was mentally imbalanced they aren't going to fine her for that lol. IMO they are more interested in getting to the truth of this misadventure, which will hopefully be found and explained in the final report. Even then, we may not get much information in the public.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2020
  7. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    I am partial to LE’s version of events, and the sheriff seemed to think he might re-open the criminal investigation if he got some more tips, so, yes, I would welcome hearing about next steps.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2020
  8. Auntie_Seagull

    Auntie_Seagull Former Member

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    Maybe we should ask a question here: why Holly's family is slamming so hard these LE officers tht do not deserve such treatment? This is a brow-rising behaviour, IMO.
     
  9. indicolite22

    indicolite22 Well-Known Member

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    How come that she got rescued on day 12 and not sooner? Given her proximity to the search area, IMO it was when she decided to come out of hiding. It's hard to believe that she was unaware that they were looking for her, as it was claimed.
     
  10. dmac55

    dmac55 Well-Known Member

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    Re: "She chose to leave home without her phone. This is only a problem because these days we expect absolutely everyone to have one on them at all times."

    I disagree

    Holly leaving her phone behind is a problem to me for this reason:
    Her daughter was worried, didn't know where her mother was, and could not contact her mother

    My view/opinion/common sense
     
  11. MacGrammie7

    MacGrammie7 Member

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    Totally agree 100%
     
  12. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    Maybe the NPS won't give her a ticket. Maybe. If the family/friends keep glorifying vandalism, they are practically inviting a fine. IMO. What's the NPS supposed to do?Graffitti—and this is an excellent example— in National Parks is against the law.
     
  13. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    That’s usually a phrase used to mean keep away from something dangerous - as in “avoid”!

    In any event, Holly’s family stated she knew the water was toxic so she didn’t drink it. She just wet her mouth- near the river in a super flat and highly travelled valley, half a mile from the shuttle drop off.
     
  14. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    Yeah I’m pretty positive she won’t get fined. But the report is going to come out and I believe it will show she was hiding. I do think they want to discourage people from doing things that waste SAR resources.
     
  15. MimosaMornings

    MimosaMornings Well- Known Member

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    JMO
    Instead of sensational and questionable miracle type statements - If there was a mental health element, stating that and relating the events in a factual timeline would be more palatable in my opinion.
    There is no need for embellishments if that was the issue. Or that she had done this type of thing prior to the pandemic and always let someone know her basic plan.
    Perhaps HC could do community awareness to help educate others about the danger.
     
  16. Trebor5591

    Trebor5591 Well-Known Member

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    "Do some more reading" you say. If you know the answer as to how she could live for 12 days without drinking water and then walk out on her own power, might I ask that you please share the explanation with us instead of vaguely saying to "Do some more reading"?

    Because, in my opinion, living 12 days without water would be impossible.
     
  17. indicolite22

    indicolite22 Well-Known Member

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    If she sneaked out to the Grotto facilities at night, didn't she notice her missing posters?
     
    La Louve, Subiechik21, LadyL and 7 others like this.
  18. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Hi LovesMoose,

    Thank you for posting.

    At Websleuths we ask our members to provide the information needed to back up their claims.

    If you have sources for what you are saying please provide the links so our other members can more clearly understand your point of view.

    I appreciate your thoughtful post and your participation in this discussion.

    Take Care,
    Tricia
     
  19. MsMarple

    MsMarple Well-Known Member

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    And we're told that for 12 days HC was able to make her way to the river to swish the toxic water in her mouth and spit it out... with no one seeing her.

    How exactly does that work? She's supposedly too weak and disoriented to leave her camp site except to walk down to the river and to make her daily hash marks on a tree branch. And when she sees someone her mouth is too dry to call out but she continues to walk to the river every day instead of the direction where she saw the person.

    Unless some new information comes out I'm convinced Holly deliberately avoided rescue. Her FB has a number of pseudoscientific posts so perhaps she was looking for attention via the "miracle" of her survival. Was the *** a scam? Who knows. Even if it was I'm not even sure there's enough evidence to bring charges. All MOO.
     
  20. TruthIsStranger

    TruthIsStranger Well-Known Member

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    I would never swish my mouth with poison. What's the point? First of all it could still make you sick. Secondly, I'd be dying to drink it and that would be torture. Thirdly,the walk, etc doesn't make sense. Honestly, they should have gone with the, I drank the water and was ill for days route--more believable?
     

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