Found Alive UT - Holly Suzanne Courtier, 38, Zion National Park, 6 Oct 2020 #2

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by doublestop, Oct 10, 2020.

  1. Ontario Mom

    Ontario Mom stay safe ♥ be kind

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    First, there isn't an angry mob here. That's not how we roll at WS.
    Second, when the park authorities and the local LE also suspect things are not adding up with this story, that's genuine cause for concern & questions.
    I do not doubt that everyone is thankful that she was found alive.
    That isn't negated by the possibility that her story may be untrue, and if so, the record should be made clear.
     


  2. steff13

    steff13 Well-Known Member

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    And, had the family said, "we're so thankful she's alive, thanks to everyone who helped bring her home," that would have been the end of it, at least as far as WS goes.
     
  3. missingm

    missingm Well-Known Member

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    The sheriff also had the obligation to make the public aware that drinking from that river was dangerous, as opposed to what was implied by HC's family. You don't need people getting sick because they tried to copy her "spiritual journey" for an afternoon.
     
  4. missingm

    missingm Well-Known Member

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    <modsnip>

    Personally I am waiting for news from the ongoing investigation.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2020
  5. K9Enzo

    K9Enzo Well-Known Member

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    IMO, I'm relieved HC was found alive. I will never say someone deserved to perish or suffer a serious injury on a hiking trail, ever. Folks getting into trouble during a recreation activity is not entertainment for me, period. I do however feel strongly about the dangerous and absurd statements HC two sisters have given to the media. HC as far as I know has remained silent.

    IMO, we all have a different opinions on what it means to be a experienced hiker. I think being experienced and prepared are two different things. I also believe you can be both or just one. *I* would not follow HC into my own backyard.

    <modsnip>
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2020
  6. MacGrammie7

    MacGrammie7 Member

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    Plus the wasted resources and strain on SAR.
     
  7. MimosaMornings

    MimosaMornings Well- Known Member

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  8. MsMarple

    MsMarple Well-Known Member

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    That's an important point IMO.

    Holly's outspoken sister had an opportunity while still in ZNP to explain to NPS rangers that Holly's impossible claims were the result of a mental health crisis. IMO had she taken even one ranger aside and said "Look, my sister's experiencing a break with reality. We're going to take her to the ER to get checked out then we'll seek mental health counseling" I doubt Sgt. Cashin would have needed to say anything.

    Instead she proclaimed in msm that a "miracle" had occurred. When it turned out that no one was buying it she switched gears and began playing up the mental health aspect. IMO the family brought the bad press on, not the NPS or WCSO or Sgt. Cashin. MOO.
     
  9. Auntie_Seagull

    Auntie_Seagull Former Member

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  10. MimosaMornings

    MimosaMornings Well- Known Member

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    How had Holly been supporting herself in the past few months since she lost the nanny gig? (I’ve read everything from “recently” to “earlier this year”)
    Not a cheap place to rent even with a roommate. Buying gear. New not second hand. A converted van.
     
  11. Knox

    Knox Well-Known Member

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    YES, I agree, this is why the situation is even where it's at today; the repeated family media interviews kept it alive and in the forefront. The Sheriff and NPS has a responsibility to call-out and investigate this type of potentially dangerous behavior. The lives of the people who search for lost, injured, or deceased people are put on the line when they perform their duties. MOO-
     
  12. MrsWatson

    MrsWatson Moira Rose's Wigs

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    I gave this situation the benefit of the doubt for a long time. And at this point, I think she either was in the midst of a breakdown, or it was all a hoax and/or she had help. No water for 12 days is a hard stumbling block. The squirrels or other wildlife were not organizing a water train for her.

    It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I do hope Holly is getting help.

    MOO
     
  13. monkey222

    monkey222 Well-Known Member

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    [QUOTE="MrsWatson, 268" of
    . The squirrels or other wildlife were not organizing a water train for her.
    MOO[/QUOTE]

    Mrs Watson, I needed a smile today, thanks for the squirrel canteen train visual.
     
  14. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    I think LE wouldn't have opened an investigation if it were not for all the tips claiming the family was trying to commit fraud.

    Crime-on-line stated that they "were opening an investigation in response to numerous tips indicating the incident was possibly conceived and carried out as part of a plan to fraudulently generate money to a Go Fund Me account."

    At the same time, LE stated "there has been no evidence to support the theory that the incident was committed intentionally to achieve financial gain."

    It sounds to me like there was no evidence except for the many tips they received from the public. LE is required to follow through with every tip they receive, even if those tips are based on speculation. I'm assuming many of them were, since LE clarified after that that they only wanted "tangible tips."

    IMO
     
  15. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    I don't see how she could have known, upon finding her sister alive in the park, that she was experiencing a mental crisis or a break from reality. She said the reason they drove her to the hospital was because Holly was scared and wanted to go with her sister and her daughter. That doesn't mean it was not recommended that she go by ambulance.

    Maybe it was after she spoke further to her sister that she realized she was having a break from reality. She already explained why she didn't elaborate to the media at first. After they publicly thanked all the agencies involved individually, as well as all the volunteers, that might have been the end of it.

    After the article with the Sheriff's statement that the story didn't add up, they apparently were faced with accusations that they were liars and scammers on SM. They said they had to shut down their SM as a result. They immediately made a statement assuring anyone who donated would get their money back if they asked. I haven't read about any complaints that any money was not returned.

    If the family was making up a story for financial gain, I would think they would have come up with a better scenario than, Holly hit her head on a branch while she was sitting up in her hammock.

    IMO
     
  16. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    I don’t see an angry mob here. I have seen anger or people feeling disappointed everywhere.


    As I’ve said earlier, in other cases where mental health issues were at play, people were largely quite sympathetic. Especially here. Like Ivy Merck’s case.

    It’s the lying that riles people up. They don’t like being played for a fool. The story didn’t add up. If they had just said: “Thank you to everyone who searched. We are so grateful and thankful that she was found alive. She is now receiving medical care and we ask that as she heals her privacy can be respected.” This wouldn’t be a story. Most people would accept it and move on.

    But they clearly lied. And that’s what’s upsetting. Especially when people are invested in a case and worry for someone. If they fee they may have been fooled, it upsets people.

    That being said, thank God. You’re right. It is a very joyful thing that we have one! One person who survived.
     
  17. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    I don’t find it wasted. Because she did need help. IMO. This could have ended differently. I don’t believe she was in her right mind and that’s dangerous for a woman to be alone in a National Park, in that condition.
     
  18. Ontario Mom

    Ontario Mom stay safe ♥ be kind

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    This was really well stated. Thank you, it's greatly appreciated.
     
  19. MsMarple

    MsMarple Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I gave the sister too much credit. It seemed logical that when Holly was found at a camp site only a half mile from where she disembarked the shuttle and mere yards from a well traveled trail yet told an implausible story of being lost for 12 days with no food or water, etc. that her sister would have recognized that Holly was either suffering some sort of breakdown or else lying about her experience. Apparently the sister believed what she was told and considered it a miracle.

    Given that Holly went to a mental health facility it's unlikely LE will be able to interview her let alone charge her with fraud or anything else. IMO we may never know the truth. MOO.

    ETA: What ranger would agree to walk behind Holly for a half mile and stop every 5 feet so she could rest without being alarmed that the woman needed medical assistance? A half mile is 2,640 feet, meaning they stopped to rest about 528 times. I had to do the math twice because that's an unbelievable number of rest stops. And I do mean unbelievable. MOO.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2020
    La Louve, Subiechik21, Suglo and 17 others like this.
  20. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    Well, any statements the family made that were fabricated can be uncovered in the investigation. I would think that in a criminal case they would have access to medical records. We don't know yet if they lied, intentionally misled people, or were just repeating what they were told.

    It was reported that she was seen entering the park but not leaving. If they find evidence from surveillance footage that she actually did leave the park during those 12 days, or that she went to the water refilling station, it still doesn't mean that the family was lying.

    If it turns out to be a completely different story then they might be just as surprised as anyone else.
     

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