Found Alive UT - Holly Suzanne Courtier, 38, Zion National Park, 6 Oct 2020 #2

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by doublestop, Oct 10, 2020.

  1. missingm

    missingm Well-Known Member

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    It was her family's statement that she chose to remain close to that "water source". Whether she was lying on the ground, in a hammock, or sitting against a tree seems irrelevant.

    I doubt they are making the assertion that she could not move from that spot at all, as she walked out of the park 12 days later.
     
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  2. missingm

    missingm Well-Known Member

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    Double post.
     
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  3. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    Per her sister, she barely got to the river, so she could wet her lips. This was evidently to explain why she didn't just go to the nearby busy trail to get help.

    I haven't spent any time in Zion. Didn't someone mention there was another trail on the other side of the river, also in full view of the river bank?

    Correction: the main road that the shuttle takes is on the other side of the river. HC got off at the grotto for the trail to the Emerald Pools. See the little squiggly river? Note the shuttle run on the other side of the river. Someone else can comment on whether there is unobstructed view of the river from there. See here: [​IMG]

    While you're looking, note how close HC was to the rest rooms and running water. I bet she washed up, too, as well as got water and used the restroom.
     
  4. LadyL

    LadyL Well-Known Member

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    do you have a link to info about the sm postings?
     
  5. MsMarple

    MsMarple Well-Known Member

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    Holly's daughter and sister actually did claim that during the 12 days she couldn't take more than a step or two from her camping spot to seek help without collapsing. I'd like to know the distances from her camp to the trail and from her camp to the river.

    "She was too weak and disoriented to actively seek out help," Chambers says of her mother. "She was without food the entire time in Zion. She was unable to take more than a step or two without collapsing. This prevented her from being able to seek out help. She told me she was so dehydrated she couldn't open her mouth."
    Rescued Hiker Who Was Missing for 2 Weeks Hit Her Head On a Tree and Became 'Very Disoriented,' Daughter Says

    Jaime Strong, Courtier’s sister, told ABC News the hiker suffered a concussion while setting up her hammock along the Virgin River and became so disoriented she couldn’t call for help or take more than a few steps without collapsing.
    Washington County Sheriff's Office criminally investigating Holly Courtier case inside Zion National Park
     
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  6. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    If she didn't want to be seen, it makes sense that she would avoid the trails. If she went to the restroom, she probably did so at night when few people were around. I'm still wondering if there are security cameras near the restrooms and water filling stations. Nobody seems to know.
     
  7. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    She would have got wet if she had to be close enough to the river to take sips. She'd have had to be, like, flat on her belly. Otherwise, she'd be clambering over rocks? How does that work if you're so weak, you can't get to the trail?
    And, if she was collapsing every few steps, she still had 12 days to get herself to the trail (a few steps at a time) with all those people hiking by.
    None of this makes sense! Is she going to and fro between her hammock and the river to get her sips? If that's the case, she could have crawled up to the trail. If she stayed by the trail, she would have wet her blankie, and died of hypothermia. Plus, she would have been seen from the road.
    One of the most obvious things to me is that no one ever said "It was dark, and she got scared." This is how normal humans react to night time when they're not used to being outside in the pitch black, even more so if they're waiting waiting waiting for a rescue because they're half dead. Yet no one made this simple human statement. (I also think she had a light, by the way. She could even have spent her nights in the bathroom.
     
  8. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    I have no doubt that SAR searched the area where HC was found earlier in their search, and she wasn't there. The sheriff and his sergeant have records about where the search took place. These things are very methodical.
    NPS had a sighting by October 13th. They said they had valid tips. They would have searched the relevant location. That's 5 days before they found her.
     
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  9. Auntie Cipation

    Auntie Cipation Context Matters.

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    Speaking of the bathroom...

    If she had been on the ground literally unable to crawl or take more than a few steps over a period of several days, she would have been lying in her own waste when found. Was her clothing soiled in that way? Was there a potty area in her camp that a barely-mobile person could reasonably have accessed? Or would a dry fast result in little or no waste products after a few days? (remember she supposedly started dry fasting a few days before arriving at the park)
     
  10. iamnotagolem

    iamnotagolem Well-Known Member

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    YES!!!!! I want to see all the local CCTV footage from October 6-18.
     
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  11. iamnotagolem

    iamnotagolem Well-Known Member

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    It’s like choose your own adventure. Pick how she injured your head from the many stories provided, pick whether she drank the poison water and didn’t get sick or survived a couple weeks with no water. So many choices, but only one real answer. JMO
     
  12. missingm

    missingm Well-Known Member

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    This would be my reply to @MsMarple as well. Unless she is claiming amnesia, she knew she was very close to the main trail and parking lot. But she "chose" to stay where she was near a water source she claims she knew she couldn't drink from. She had to know that crawling would get her to the parking lot in a day.

    From the link in @MsMarple post:

     
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  13. iamnotagolem

    iamnotagolem Well-Known Member

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    Honestly I get frustrated with the whole thing because if you try to explain any aspect of it, it’s just unbelievable.

    Like when your kid tries to claim they didn’t eat the chocolate but they have chocolate on their hands and face with candy wrappers at their feet, and you saw them on the nanny cam. That’s how every thing in this story feels. You tell the kid if they just tell the truth they won’t get in as much trouble, then they double down and blame the neighbors cousins fish for eating the chocolate.
     
  14. MsMarple

    MsMarple Well-Known Member

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    I agree. To make sure my post was clear, I was pointing out what Holly's daughter and sister claimed happened, not what I believe happened.

    IMO Holly intentionally eluded searchers and intentionally spun a fable for her daughter and sisters. MOO.
     
  15. dmac55

    dmac55 Well-Known Member

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    deleted by me
    overstated my view:/
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2020
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  16. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    One curiosity I wish we knew.... If HC didn't have trash on her, she had to have dumped it at the restroom. Or else she buried it. Humans always make trash: can't help it.
    Also, if she didn't use the restroom, she had toilet paper.... She soooooo used the restroom. Toilet paper make trash.
     
  17. Seni

    Seni Well-Known Member

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    Hi K9,

    From an article posted recently ABC news has made a FOI request.
     
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  18. Seni

    Seni Well-Known Member

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    Respectfully snipped for focus.

    I agree, there was probably 24 hour lighting for the restrooms that would have reached her.
     
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  19. Seni

    Seni Well-Known Member

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    DBM. Double post.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2020
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  20. Seni

    Seni Well-Known Member

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    Right, thats possibly why the "fasting" became an issue to stop people doubting she could not have left a trace, whether poop, paper, water bottles, food wrapping...

    Could all have been dealt with in restroom. IMO
    Absolutely agree. And would need to bury it well for it not to be found soon after. No idea how hard the soil will have been during the time she was missing or if it would have needed a bit of elbow power to do the digging?

    I suppose if she were as incapacitated as family suggests, her waste disposal would have been the last thing on her mind. IMO
     

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