Found Alive UT - Holly Suzanne Courtier, 38, Zion National Park, 6 Oct 2020

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by doublestop, Oct 10, 2020.

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  1. mickey2942

    mickey2942 Well-Known Member

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    That is pretty true about most of our National Parks. Beautiful places to visit, but can be deadly. No one realizes that, despite so many of these tragic stories.
     
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  2. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    Snipped for focus.
    The CCTV photo I saw has her with a Cotopaxi fanny pack, maybe 3 liters. You can see the bright colors in the photo (Cotopaxi makes gear from scraps).
     
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  3. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    If CH did indeed have that Osprey Ariel pack, it has a lid that turns into a mini-pack.
     
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  4. Kittybunny

    Kittybunny Well-Known Member

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    This is really scary indeed. And as has been pointed out repeatedly, just because you've done a lot of hiking doesn't mean you're experienced in another terrain or unfamiliar geographic area. Despite her not taking her cell phone with her, I think this is more likely a fall or that she got lost. But without knowing her specific plan or even if someone in the park saw her on a specific trail, I'm sure SAR is looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack. It would be really good to know if she said anything specific to her daughter the last time they were there, or anything about a trail she didn't have a chance to hike, or something she would like to try or see when she went back. I'm sure she shared everything that she knew or could think of though. I just hope it helps.

    I don't have high hopes for a happy ending though...
     
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  5. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    Sometimes I'm so thankful I'm afraid of heights. I can't even imagine a cliff without getting dizzy. So, thankfully no risky Angel's Landing for me.

    It has always struck me, though that a name like "Angel's Landing" might attract people who are down on themselves. I don't mean everyone who goes there. I mean the name might tug people who are going through a difficult time. Spending time with angels sounds so appealing.
     
  6. Kittybunny

    Kittybunny Well-Known Member

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    Sorry if this is already been posted but holy crap, I just found this video about Angels Landing. Yeah that's a big nope from me. I don't have any particular strong fear of heights, just a strong desire to live, LOL.

     
  7. mickey2942

    mickey2942 Well-Known Member

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    I did it several times when I was younger. My favorite hike at Zions NP is actually "The Narrows" especially in the summer, the water keeps you cool. Lots of great hiking in Southern Utah. Beautiful area. Brian Head ski area is not too far from Zions NP, probably one of my favorite ski resorts, amazing views.
     
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  8. Seni

    Seni Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. Did she live with her daughter? Where was her mobile found?
    How did she call daughter?
     
  9. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    Yikes! I couldn't even watch it all. I'm amazed there's an NPS trail that extreme. And not roped up? I mean, I've done the ladders at Bandolier, but this is whole next exponential dimension. And NPS lets kids up there, too?
     
  10. Seni

    Seni Well-Known Member

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    Pack was too big as was the hammock.Big enough for two.
     
  11. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    It was the beginning of the month. I'm thinking she might have got evicted. Then, if she's living in her van anyway..... And maybe Zion was the only Park she'd ever been to, and it was a good place to go to catch her breath and get oriented to her travel plan. Familiarity and all....
    The reality of living in a van solo and maybe stealthing because of your budget would be especially spooky at first, and maybe always. A chance to get adjusted at somewhere you're familiar with would be a great idea.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
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  12. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    Yes on the pack (too big and too heavy), but solos often buy double hammocks because the price point isn't that different.
     
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  13. mickey2942

    mickey2942 Well-Known Member

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    People are supposed to watch their kids. And there are plenty of family friendly hikes at Zions NP.
     
  14. Seni

    Seni Well-Known Member

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    But consider weight and bulk.
     
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  15. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    I'll bet there are plenty of great hikes for kids at Zion....the Parks are so good at that. But letting them go up that crazy trail seems, well, crazy! You couldn't even keep them safe by holding their hands.

    IIRC it may be at Bandolier where kids aren't allowed to climb the ladders.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
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  16. Backabeyond

    Backabeyond Well-Known Member

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    Probably not a bad idea to look into the shuttle driver.
     
  17. Seni

    Seni Well-Known Member

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    So , all things considered and we have little to go on:

    We do not know the starting date of the trip.
    We do not know anything about the van and how it was equipped.
    We do not know when daughter last saw mother or whether they were living in close terms physically or otherwise.
    We do not know how mother managed to communicate with daughter.
    We do not know what mother took on trip in terms of equipment and why she needed to buy additional items being an experienced hiker and supposedly on a big trip.
     
  18. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    I would prioritize weight and bulk over the possibility that I might find a hammock partner to cozy up with, but not everyone thinks that way. Did someone mention HC just broke up with someone? Maybe she badly wanted a partner, but I'm totally guessing here.
    I'll look up the weight and bulk of an ENO. Single versus double is not that much different. I'll report back.

    Here we go:

    SingleNest Hammock
    Single ENO: 16 oz. ; 4"x5" (though it's cylindrical, so I don't get this)
    DoubleNest Hammock
    Double ENO: 19 oz; 5" x 5"
     
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  19. 10ofRods

    10ofRods Verified Anthropologist

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    I remember that. I believe the second body would not have been found had they not been looking where the first person fell (one was a woman, IIRC). Well, it might have been found eventually.

    I gave up my ideas about that hike back then. I've hiked Grand Canyon, but noped out of Angel's Landing. There are way too many people, too much jostling and people attempt to get around each other.
     
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  20. Seni

    Seni Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Rickshaw,
    But we don't know what make of hammock it was. They can vary a lot in weight depending on whether they are densely woven or more of a chinchorra nature.

    I travel a lot in NPs, but in tropical climate, even so the nights can be cold, we use hammocks with sleeping blankets zipped up at the front.
     
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