Found Alive UT - Holly Suzanne Courtier, 38, Zion National Park, 6 Oct 2020

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by doublestop, Oct 10, 2020.

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  1. happyday

    happyday Well-Known Member

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    I just don’t know what to think about this. So much points to her going there to end her life, but then why buy a nice, new pack, hammock and blanket? That doesn’t make sense for someone going into that park for the purpose of never coming back.

    Also, it sure seems like she planned on being back on the shuttle that afternoon. If not, why set it up just to have the driver waiting for her and sounding alarms? She could have just set up one-way or at least told them she had a ride back so don’t expect her. She didn’t do that. She set up a RETURN SHUTTLE. But then again—the multi-day pack & hammock. None of it makes sense!

    I do hope she wasn’t on Angel’s Landing w/an unwieldy, heavy backpack. :eek: If no other hikers were around at that moment & she was alone.... No one would know if she went over the edge.

    But because none of these details make a bit of sense, I am really starting to wonder about the shuttle & if she was indeed on it or if she actually got off.
     


  2. Auntie Cipation

    Auntie Cipation Context Matters.

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  3. mickey2942

    mickey2942 Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
  4. ChatteringBirds

    ChatteringBirds Well-Known Member

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    I think she was planning a new phase in her life, to experience nature and enjoy the simple things.

    Perhaps she didn't bring her phone or leave an itinerary because she didn't see the point. She didn't feel it was risky and wanted to start with a relatively short trip and easier hike.

    Something interrupted her plans. I'm not getting serious depression vibes, though. I think going off trail is most likely.
     
  5. GraceG

    GraceG Well-Known Member

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    The picture of her on her FB page perched on the very edge of a cliff alarmed me. A lot of cliff edges are unstable. You think you have a stable platform and it just gives way. Praying for her return to her family.
     
  6. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    I always treat my water, but if you're trying to survive and you're not equipped (or don't know any better), at least there's a supply. And if HC is equipped, at least there's a source.
    Alarmingly, I didn't see a water treatment system on HC's list of purchases. This bothers me almost more than anything else, because it makes me think she has no idea what she's getting into. I haven't seen any statement that she's overnighted in the backcountry before; she might simply have not thought about water sourcing and/or listened to internet chat recommending not using any at all.
    The toxic bloom is a bigger worry than Giardia, because, per NPS, you can't treat it and be safe.
    IMO
     
  7. indicolite22

    indicolite22 Well-Known Member

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  8. crhedBngr

    crhedBngr Attempting to Keep Calm and Carry On.

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    RBBM

    I'm not surprised about this at all. Manufacturers really need to keep this in mind.

    Praying today is the day HC is found!

    JMVHO.
     
  9. mickey2942

    mickey2942 Well-Known Member

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  10. 10ofRods

    10ofRods Verified Anthropologist

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    This is what I'm thinking too, mostly because I know plenty of people who've done it. They've all survived, but had many adventures along the way.

    If she had water treatment with her, I'd feel more confident, but she may have sought a local source of water - I'm sure they've looked at the closest places to where she was last seen.

    But she really could be anywhere. It's really hard to orient just by the sun, because of the canyon walls and how many twists and turns the trails within them take.

    Did she have fire making capacity? It sure sounds like it was an intended half day trip, to me.

    It's predicted to go down to 39°F tonight.
     
  11. zecats

    zecats Well-Known Member

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    Beautiful parks and places to visit. I highly recommend them all myself. It's been a while and yet they are still vivid in my mind.

    With 3 hikes mentioned in Zion as their starting point, Angel's Landing and The Narrows would seem likely places, except for the giant backpack. And except for having searched theses trails. One or the other could def have been her starting point though.
     
  12. Jackielee09

    Jackielee09 Well-Known Member

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    Prayers she’s found soon.
     
  13. Satchie

    Satchie Well-Known Member

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    IMO, the list of items she might have with her are to identify her, like clothing, backpack and her hammock, if someone finds/sees these things. It doesn't mean she didn't bring anything else. Maybe she did, maybe she didn't.

    ETA: with the toxic bloom/giardia, these things can make people sick and/or have long term effects, but would they instantly disable an adult so they couldn't even move and get help?
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
  14. mickey2942

    mickey2942 Well-Known Member

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    Possibly, if she went way off trail, she could get dehydrated pretty quickly. And she is quite petite. So, drink bad water, hike a few hours, possible "stealth camping", wake up the next day super sick with cramps, and the rest of the symptoms...she wouldn't be able to hike back. People can also get disoriented, and not think clearly when sick. So...who knows?!
     
  15. katydid23

    katydid23 Well-Known Member

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    Oh I agree. They are absolutely high quality. Just saying that she was in the position to attain high quality camping gear. Many just buy their stuff at Walmart. There is a difference.
     
  16. chris24

    chris24 Active Member

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    I would like to know from Holly’s daughter if leaving her cell phone behind, whether intentionally or unintentionally, was something that Holly did frequently. Leaving behind a cell phone before going on a road trip seems quite odd.

    Also would like to comment on the hammock - at least where I’m from, a lot of people carry hammocks with them and will set up them up just to hang out in, read a book, etc. It’s entirely possible Holly brought a hammock just for day use - especially with the amount of time she had before she was expected back to the shuttle, it could’ve been perfect time for a short hike and setting up the hammock up somewhere near the trail.

    As far as I understand, most people that fall off Angels Landing are seen falling as it’s a pretty busy trail, or the recovery of the body seems relatively easy. So I would discount that scenario.
     
  17. katydid23

    katydid23 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I am really curious about her reasons for leaving her cell behind.

    It just doesn't seem very logical or rational, given she is on a road trip, in remote areas, all alone.

    What if she has car trouble? What if her daughter needs to reach her?

    If she didn't want to be bothered by others, she could have turned it off and kept it in the glove box---to be used only in emergencies...
     
  18. chris24

    chris24 Active Member

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    Yes, exactly! You could still bring the phone, but leave it turned off.
     
  19. 10ofRods

    10ofRods Verified Anthropologist

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    I've never been in an REI where they force me to try something on. If I head right to what I want, they just sell it to me (they don't know who it's for unless I ask for help).

    It is puzzling why she had such a big pack, what else she put into it, as it does not appear she was planning to meet the shuttle after 4 hours, which is apparently what her reservations said.

    This is not unusual behavior for someone who wants to backpack without a permit, but...it is concerning. The search page for Holly shows that the nearest trails to where she was apparently last seen...have been searched, they're asking for volunteers to broaden the search. The main trails near where she got off the shuttle have a lot of hikers, so she can't be right next to the trail.
     
  20. K9Enzo

    K9Enzo Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I wasn’t really talking about REI but these smaller outdoor gear store locations, some nestled in mountain hiking communities, for example. They even keep weights to fill your pack so you can adjust the straps, etc. They are very knowledgeable about what they sell. It was more in response to a member saying no one would really sell her that pack. Btw, I’m not so sure she was carrying an enormous pack. I thought they just showed a pic of A Osprey pack. IMO
     
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