Found Alive UT - Holly Suzanne Courtier, 38, Zion National Park, 6 Oct 2020

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by doublestop, Oct 10, 2020.

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  1. kaen

    kaen Trying to be a good human.

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    It seems that we didn't know how her health had suffered as a result of this incident.

    I am so glad that she was found and able to get the help she needs. That said, there are many situations where the choices of people affect others-- health choices, travel choices, alcohol/drug choices, etc. It is nearly impossible to "charge" monetarily or legally all people for the mistakes they make in life or a situation.

    In looking at Holly's situation it seems like she had an accident and made a decision that may have saved her life by staying near the water.

    Even though I might not wander on a trail without a cell phone or clear explanation of my travel with my family, I am sure that I have made many stupid mistakes that those on the sidelines would skewer me for.

    It is fair to say that there by the Grace of the Gods/Goddesses go any one of us. Mistakes happen.

    I am happy that Holly has been found.


    From CNN:
    It was not clear from the text exchange if the water source was potable, but Chambers said Courtier was without food while she was lost in the park.
    "She was too weak and disoriented (to seek help)," she said. "She was unable to take more than a step or two without collapsing. This prevented her from being able to seek out help. She told me she was so dehydrated she couldn't open her mouth."

    Holly Courtier hit her head and became disoriented early in her trip to Zion National Park, daughter says - CNN
     


  2. JudgeJoe

    JudgeJoe Well-Known Member

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    This makes the timeline more confusing imo. Unless HC became injured the first hour she set out, she should have made it back to the shuttle. Did the tipster see her in the first hour of her hike & not realize she was missing until 12 days later? Because if the tipster saw her injured, he/she would have administered some sort of aid and sought out the help of rangers right away? So I’m guessing HC became injured later in her hike, well after she was due back at the shuttle & after the tipster crossed paths with her. Conjecture.
     
  3. 10ofRods

    10ofRods Verified Anthropologist

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    My understanding is that the tipster saw her more recently and was able to pinpoint almost exactly where they saw her.

    I don't think she ever intended to be back at the shuttle at 4:45 pm. Truthfully, I"m having a hard time believing that she lay beside some water source just 1 hour from the shuttle for 11-12 days.
     
  4. wary

    wary Well-Known Member

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    By the way, early reports that she was in good shape may have had a non-stated caveat: “considering what she’s been through,” and don’t necessarily contradict her needing to go to the hospital.
     
  5. 10ofRods

    10ofRods Verified Anthropologist

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    Yeah, I'm guessing the same. I find it very hard to believe she did this one hour in.

    Also, it's not as if the water sources are obscure - unless one is well off trail.
     
  6. MimosaMornings

    MimosaMornings Well- Known Member

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    How had she been communicating with her daughter since she left her cell phone in California? I can’t imagine not having a cell phone - alone traveling to various national parks. Especially during Covid. Was she planning on returning to her home in California or was she going to boondock for several months and not go home? Wouldn’t it be expensive to pay rent if you’re not planning on being there for a long period?
     
  7. mickey2942

    mickey2942 Well-Known Member

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    All is well that ends well.
     
  8. LietKynes

    LietKynes "Law is the ultimate science" Liet Kynes

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    Maybe there'll be an update soon ?
    IF she wanted to go off on her own-- she'd have brought extra food/water/supplies, right ?
    Unless she lost the supplies or did hit her head and then became disoriented ?
    Imo.
     
  9. moody_chicago

    moody_chicago Well-Known Member

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  10. K9Enzo

    K9Enzo Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I can only speculate with very limited info, but agree that her intention was likely not to return to the pick up shuttle time on 10/6. I do believe she suffered a head injury (that's horrible) but not sure on what day that happened. They did not start searching for her, IIRC, until 10/8 when they were notified. IMO, that's a late start trying to locate someone with very little info. I wonder if she ever heard or saw the helicopters flying overhead (assuming they were used)? We also don't know (I believe) the LOCATION they actually found her and how far that was from her believed PLS.

    It appears to me, the person who accurately identified her on the trail and reported it, did not say that HC asked them for help? I suppose it's possible this was before HC was injured.

    I can't help but to be very curious about missing hiker cases. IMO
     
  11. MimosaMornings

    MimosaMornings Well- Known Member

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  12. K9Enzo

    K9Enzo Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if her Osprey pack had an emergency whistle built into the sternum strap? Many people don’t realize they might have one. IMO
     
  13. Ontario Mom

    Ontario Mom stay safe ♥ be kind Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm not a hiker at all, so please help me understand why you are inclined to believe she never intended to make it back for the pick up shuttle. Pretty sure I'm missing something here.

    In the MSM I've read, it specifically states she sustained the head injury early in her hike, whatever that means. The first few minutes, first hour, first day? It doesn't say.
    Her sister, in this video (attached link) says she hasn't eaten since "then" (when she hit her head? she doesn't make that clear) but also "Courtier was without food while she was lost in the park". Which seems to imply she didn't intend to be gone long at all. I mean, wouldn't she have had food with her if she planned on being gone a while? The reported significant weight loss would also seem to support that it wasn't planned.

    Holly Courtier hit her head and became disoriented early in her trip to Zion National Park, daughter says - CNN
     
  14. MaryG12

    MaryG12 Well-Known Member

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    Which brings me to ask:

    Did Holly have water purification tablets on her and a camper's drinking cup with her at the time?
     
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  15. LAhiker

    LAhiker Well-Known Member

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    Or a filter, or a filter/bottle combination such as a Lifestraw.

    If not, depending on the water source, her problems may have been compounded by water-borne illness.
    JMO
     
  16. MaryG12

    MaryG12 Well-Known Member

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    I see in the photo of Holly at this link that she is wearing a wristwatch.

    Was she wearing it when she went missing in ZNP?

    There is an internal part of the watch (which name escapes me at the moment) which can be used for a fishhook.

    Looking at the possibly she is a highly astute wilderness survivor - or there is something that doesn't add up that we do not know about.

    Maybe she wanted a break from her routine life? I do not know. MOO
     
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  17. K9Enzo

    K9Enzo Well-Known Member

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    Sure & fair question. Again, I’m just speculating.
    • she drove from CA to Utah for a few hour hike? I think that’s unlikely. Unless this was her first stop for that day, then she was hitting a different trail later or the next day.
    • She most likely packed food & water in, certainly not for 11-12 days. (Sister said she has not eaten since then- that’s still unclear to me)
    • I would expect her to lose weight.
    • Dehydration would also be expected.
    • Bruises, many people get beat up (I do) while hiking. If she sustained a head injury her balance was probably off, exhaustion also makes you heavy footed.
    • She might have scheduled the shuttle pickup but would decide once on the trail if she would stay longer & decided to blow it off.

    While I think it’s possible she didn’t intend to make the return shuttle, I don’t think she intended to backpack for 11-12 days either and absolutely got into trouble and was in a ER situation. IMO
     
  18. JudgeJoe

    JudgeJoe Well-Known Member

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    Until we get more info- if they care to clarify- nothing will make sense, imo. No phone. No communication. No backcountry permit. Backpack & blanket. Boots/Birks. No snacks/food. Water unknown. No timeline. Can’t imagine how to hit your head on a tree on an established trail in a National Park. Was water close to the trail? If I was “early” into a hike & injured myself to the degree I couldn’t walk, I’d crawl back to the trailhead, not water. I’m glad she’s found & surrounded by people who love her. The rest is none o my beeswax. Happy to accept it as a case I never understand & leave it at that.
     
  19. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    Yes, if she drank from the river that might have contributed to her feeling weak, disoriented and not having the strength to walk. After a few days with no food or water I would think she would be exhausted. It's amazing that she was able to survive for so long.
     
  20. LietKynes

    LietKynes "Law is the ultimate science" Liet Kynes

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    bbm
    Ita.
    I concur.
     
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