Found Alive UT - Holly Suzanne Courtier, 38, Zion National Park, 6 Oct 2020

Status
Not open for further replies.

Ontario Mom

stay safe ♥ be kind
Joined
May 21, 2013
Messages
13,491
Reaction score
91,770
Again, I am looking for the answer to this very simple question: if she shared no plans with anyone, how did they know to search Zion?

Good question. I tried to locate the RP yesterday and never did find out who that was. Shuttle driver? It was all rather vague on the ZNP FB page, plus, the original post was heavily edited with each update (kind of like the FindMeCash description edits) so, I struck out there.

If anyone does locate the original reporting party & details, that'd be great.
 

iamnotagolem

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Messages
4,969
Reaction score
8,199
Good question. I tried to locate the RP yesterday and never did find out who that was. Shuttle driver? It was all rather vague on the ZNP FB page, plus, the original post was heavily edited with each update (kind of like the FindMeCash description edits) so, I struck out there.

If anyone does locate the original reporting party & details, that'd be great.


She was reported missing by her family and alerted the park on October 8. Searches began for Courtier on Friday.
No phone, abandoned car: Latest on missing woman in Zion National Park
 

K9Enzo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
2,591
Reaction score
43,678
According to NPS news release, she was reported missing to the park on 8 Oct, official search started the next day.

I thought maybe the shuttle service had a protocol for guests who miss their schedule pick up - ER contact form, etc. I thought this was unlikely because the number of rides given daily, especially during peak seasons and knowing hikers plans can change. I don’t think this was how she was reported missing.

ETA: IMO

Missing Person Search Update 10-13-2020 - Zion National Park (U.S. National Park Service)
 

Ontario Mom

stay safe ♥ be kind
Joined
May 21, 2013
Messages
13,491
Reaction score
91,770
I really can't reconcile all the inconsistant details I've been reading but I don't know if I believe anyone's purposely lying for some reason.

First we hear she left in the middle of the night without telling anyone where she was going, then we hear her own family reported her missing and alerted the park. So clearly, she did tell someone where she was going.

I'm not even going to list all the other inconsistant statements but I do have to wonder if she's just so messed up somehow, mentally, that she doesn't even realize what she's saying, and family are just repeating it? Or can we chalk some of this up to bad reporting?

Frustrating, for sure. Trying to sort it out so it makes sense, since no one's going 12 days without a drop of drinking water, then walking out of the park on their own.

jmo
 

mickey2942

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2016
Messages
11,548
Reaction score
108,575
After watching far too many cop shows, the key to lying and getting away with it is to be vague, don’t add unnecessary details.

People who lie always embellish with unnecessary details. They think it makes their story believable. When someone is telling the truth, they actually can't remember and watch, they sort of move their eyes, as if "searching" trying to remember things.

When someone rattles off the story, without even trying to "remember", it is rehearsed and generally not truthful.
 

MyDogsMom

Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2020
Messages
2
Reaction score
49
(Long-time lurker, first-time commenter!)

Former SAR here. This case has been really interesting to follow. Having been involved with rescues of individuals who've faced the elements, I share the questions about insects, other elemental-related injuries that would be common for that area/type of year, and of course, her reported condition upon leaving after that period of time. I've assisted in a couple walk-outs where head injuries/concussions were involved (but not associated with long-term exposure) and the whole inconsistencies around her medical treatment are downright odd.

I wonder if this all stemmed from her daughter's (and later her family's) attempts to explain her behavior in what they thought might be a more "palatable" way or attempting to cover some known mental health issues, resulting in all the inconsistencies.
 

10ofRods

Verified Anthropologist
Joined
Jun 27, 2019
Messages
9,914
Reaction score
128,583
I really can't reconcile all the inconsistant details I've been reading but I don't know if I believe anyone's purposely lying for some reason.

First we hear she left in the middle of the night without telling anyone where she was going, then we hear her own family reported her missing and alerted the park. So clearly, she did tell someone where she was going.

I'm not even going to list all the other inconsistant statements but I do have to wonder if she's just so messed up somehow, mentally, that she doesn't even realize what she's saying, and family are just repeating it? Or can we chalk some of this up to bad reporting?

Frustrating, for sure. Trying to sort it out so it makes sense, since no one's going 12 days without a drop of drinking water, then walking out of the park on their own.

jmo

She probably let them know after she was on the road. Or, perhaps, she had to give contact information to the place where she left her van (if she took a shuttle, she probably had to check in at the hotels where people park and take the shuttles).

I thought all along she seemed to be having mental problems - it's just the feeling I get from some of her photos, her recent interest in "spirituality," her two trips within weeks to Zion (!) and her apparent belief that Zion had some spiritual significance. Now we also know about the fasting (and not drinking!)

The only time I've seen that, frankly, is in schizophrenics, schizotypals and schizoaffective people. It's actually rather common in that group (the delusional belief that not eating and not drinking will get them closer to God - or that they will become a holy person - or even somehow become divine themselves, proving it to the world by transcending the need to eat and drink).

This isn't just in our culture, but it is recurrent among those with the genes for a schizo-type disorder. Of course, Bipolar can play all these same games with the mind, and that would be consistent with sudden plans to tour the US via National Park. She already knew they wouldn't let her van into the park, though (if she'd just been there - although I'm not at all sure I trust that info, either).
 

JudgeJoe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2018
Messages
3,095
Reaction score
26,449
I really can't reconcile all the inconsistant details I've been reading but I don't know if I believe anyone's purposely lying for some reason.

First we hear she left in the middle of the night without telling anyone where she was going, then we hear her own family reported her missing and alerted the park. So clearly, she did tell someone where she was going.

I'm not even going to list all the other inconsistant statements but I do have to wonder if she's just so messed up somehow, mentally, that she doesn't even realize what she's saying, and family are just repeating it? Or can we chalk some of this up to bad reporting?

Frustrating, for sure. Trying to sort it out so it makes sense, since no one's going 12 days without a drop of drinking water, then walking out of the park on their own.

jmo
That could make total sense. Until family starts quoting medical staff. Those statements should align with NPS, but instead are conflicting. Pretty hard to explain that, imo.
 

ChatteringBirds

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2019
Messages
5,878
Reaction score
25,677
I don't think this is a scam. Just not getting that vibe. I think it's an purely about her mental state.

The truth about her physical health is probably in the middle of the two extremes being discussed.

She drank something over those days, though. No way around it.

I think after a few days your brain would force you to drink anything you had access to, including contaminated river water. You wouldn't be able to resist. So this is what I'm curious about.
 

MyDogsMom

Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2020
Messages
2
Reaction score
49
If she honestly could not walk, it's very odd to me that SAR would do an assisted-walkout where they were basically carrying her- if a victim was in that state I would think the protocol would be a C collar and backboard (based on her location I'd think they could have these to her asap) or at the very least, SAR would perform a litter basket carry?
 

iamnotagolem

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Messages
4,969
Reaction score
8,199
I don't think this is a scam. Just not getting that vibe. I think it's an purely about her mental state.

The truth about her physical health is probably in the middle of the two extremes being discussed.

She drank something over those days, though. No way around it.

I think after a few days your brain would force you to drink anything you had access to, including contaminated river water. You wouldn't be able to resist. So this is what I'm curious about.

If it was her mental state then why wouldn’t the family just say “please respect our privacy”? That’s all that is needed. I 100% thought mental issues until she was found. It wasn’t until the blatant lies came out that I started to think anything else.

If the family truly were just relaying what Holly was telling them, then when authorities called out the inconsistencies they could have said “sorry, I’m just relaying the information I was provided”. That could have been the end to it.

But that didn’t happen either, they immediately came out with more details that made less sense. Then today again they came out with even more details that make even less sense.

If there are mental health issues at play, I sincerely hope that everyone that is suffering receives the help they need.
 

dixiegirl1035

I will do it, but I won't like it
Joined
Oct 5, 2017
Messages
12,889
Reaction score
99,694
To me, this interview today with her sister is clear. HC made a conscious decision to go off the grid, in the park after fasting prior to the trip. MOO

Does anyone here recognize the location of the tree with the Sharpie marks in the video?

Nope, but looks so perfectly done. Agree with a poster above, is this a "simulated" photo by CBS? It has no source on the screen. Also, I thought an early report said that she didn't realize how long she had been in the park.

I must have incorrect recollection on such.

tree.JPG

Watch CBS This Morning: Missing hiker's sister on her survival - Full show on CBS All Access

ETA: Another post said another article gave credit to Holly for these photos
 
Last edited:

JudgeJoe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2018
Messages
3,095
Reaction score
26,449
If she honestly could not walk, it's very odd to me that SAR would do an assisted-walkout where they were basically carrying her- if a victim was in that state I would think the protocol would be a C collar and backboard (based on her location I'd think they could have these to her asap) or at the very least, SAR would perform a litter basket carry?
Welcome to WS! I appreciate your expertise. What do you think about the alleged weight loss, potassium levels, near kidney failure, 12-day concussion, & ability to only take a few steps? For half a mile? But being released from hospital same day, followed by flight home (guessing airport logistics & not charter, since funds are a concern). And NPS reports no sign if this type of trauma? How would you explain the discrepancy? Tia!

ETA: Initial weight of 120 was corrected to 100, pre- search. So after the 15 pound loss, HC would be down to 85 pounds. Would NPS have weighed her?
 

Kudzu

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2017
Messages
174
Reaction score
1,862
There have been comments about the family driving her to the hospital, so therefore her condition must not have been too serious. I can promise you that if my mom had been missing for 12 days, I’d just been told the search for her was being called off, and then she was found... I WOULD NOT HAVE LET MY MOM OUT OF MY SIGHT!! I can absolutely understand why her family drove her to the hospital. Family would know what the before and after differences in her weight and appearance were, they would have heard what the doctors had to say about her condition and her test results. I believe the family. MOO
 

oviedo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
17,434
Reaction score
165,428
I really can't reconcile all the inconsistant details I've been reading but I don't know if I believe anyone's purposely lying for some reason.

First we hear she left in the middle of the night without telling anyone where she was going, then we hear her own family reported her missing and alerted the park. So clearly, she did tell someone where she was going.

I'm not even going to list all the other inconsistant statements but I do have to wonder if she's just so messed up somehow, mentally, that she doesn't even realize what she's saying, and family are just repeating it? Or can we chalk some of this up to bad reporting?

Frustrating, for sure. Trying to sort it out so it makes sense, since no one's going 12 days without a drop of drinking water, then walking out of the park on their own.

jmo
and that's the biggest issue I have - what did she drink for water? did it rain? did she catch water in a cup or her hammock or coat or something??? this is what needs an explanation IMO.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top