Found Alive UT - Holly Suzanne Courtier, 38, Zion National Park, 6 Oct 2020

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by doublestop, Oct 10, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. 24Brix

    24Brix Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    2,205
    Trophy Points:
    93
    No. Never. A water fast is water, coffee, or tea only. No calories. :) Intermittent fasting was a natural state for humans for millennia. A constant abundant supply of a variety of foods is a luxury our ancestors didn’t know. I’ll generally lose 5 or 6 lbs on a 7-day fast, though I confess I haven’t done one since the pandemic started. In fact, for the first time ever I actually have a pantry, lol!

    If there is a lie being told, I believe it’s that her accident occurred early in her adventure. If she were just bopping around the countryside for the first week before getting into trouble it would explain a lot, IMO.
     


  2. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

    Messages:
    27,328
    Likes Received:
    199,146
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So the stuff about wetting her mouth and spitting it out is not likely.
     
  3. JudgeJoe

    JudgeJoe Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,409
    Likes Received:
    19,213
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Except the story family is telling in interviews they claim came from medical professionals, not HC. Even how long HC was in hospital changes day to day. Nothing to “buy” with facts so simple to verify. LE & park officials have the credibility here.
     
  4. JudgeJoe

    JudgeJoe Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,409
    Likes Received:
    19,213
    Trophy Points:
    113
    How about, she’s in the hospital overnight vs out the same day & flying back to CA that night? Can’t both be true.
     
  5. LAhiker

    LAhiker Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    509
    Likes Received:
    4,680
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Do you mean, when searchers had already started looking for her? I gather she was dropped off in the park on Oct 6th. AFAIK, she was declared missing on Oct 8th. I think that was when her vehicle was found in a town near the park. I don't know the extent of search in the early days, but unless she left the park and came back, that would put her in ZNP while searchers were already looking for her. Maybe she was in some other part of the park from where they were looking; maybe she was actively evading them, I don't know. If she truly was fasting, I doubt she'd be bopping around, but who knows.

    JMO
     
  6. Coffiecat

    Coffiecat Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    340
    Likes Received:
    2,628
    Trophy Points:
    93
  7. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

    Messages:
    27,328
    Likes Received:
    199,146
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes. I mean looking at past cases where that occurred, as long as the person involved didn’t make up a story “I was kidnapped” e.g., most people are pretty understanding.

    However, reading posts which appear to equate mental health issues with weakness and/or a moral failing of some sort I can understand why they may be reluctant to say anything.

    The problem for me is making things up. That I don’t like. Otherwise, whether a person went missing because they got injured, got lost or had a mental health issue is all the same to me. I blame no one for anything like that. Life is more important than bashing people for surviving, which is sometimes how it feels.

    My only issue is being lied to. I’d want some information but I wouldn’t be upset if they made a vague statement to the effect of: “We are so grateful to everyone who prayed, hoped, and searched, especially...We are still trying to figure out exactly what happened. HC is in good condition now. But we are asking for privacy at this time as HC receives continued treatment.”

    That’s it. Instead they just keep increasing the details and making it even weirder. They didn’t need to do that at all.
     
  8. LAhiker

    LAhiker Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    509
    Likes Received:
    4,680
    Trophy Points:
    93
    So just don't disturb the cyanobacterial mat and no one gets hurt, eh? Still sounds very dangerous, especially when the update says that the mats can grow under clear water and can also detach and float downstream.

    JMO
     
  9. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

    Messages:
    27,328
    Likes Received:
    199,146
    Trophy Points:
    113
    To my knowledge, neither LE not park officials have said whether she was in the hospital or not.

    And we don’t know if the information about her condition came to the family filtered through HC or directly from doctors. I saw no “The doctor told me that...”. Just that “the doctors were shocked by her condition.”

    Either way, clearly someone without food or water for 12 days would need more than just minimal assistance to get out. They’d need a stretcher...or a body bag.

    It just isn’t possible and doesn’t make sense. But by this point it should be clear to them that that story can’t be accurate and isn’t logical. They sound defensive to me. They’re doing more damage than if they had just stayed silent.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
  10. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

    Messages:
    27,328
    Likes Received:
    199,146
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I wonder if there’s a way to remove those mats.
     
  11. JudgeJoe

    JudgeJoe Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,409
    Likes Received:
    19,213
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Totally agree. That’s the heart of these posts, imo. Changing stories. Lies. For Pete’s sake how can one get confused about when their loved one was released from the hospital? Or when she flew home after 12 days of searching? It’s weird, as you say, to lie about that. And why? Most people have high compassion for job loss, medical insurance issues, issues with stress & difficulty coping. But lies? Uh-uh. Compassion plummets with that. As we are seeing in this thread, and msm. Imo
     
  12. Coffiecat

    Coffiecat Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    340
    Likes Received:
    2,628
    Trophy Points:
    93
    No, they've frail slime-like structures, more like wet toilet paper than a rug.
     
  13. Coffiecat

    Coffiecat Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    340
    Likes Received:
    2,628
    Trophy Points:
    93

    The water column tests negative, until the mats are disturbed. Zero. Sure, they can grow under clear water, and in an undisturbed mountain waterway, would just cling to their anchor point. Less dangerous than death by dehydration, methinks.
     
  14. mrstfs

    mrstfs Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,012
    Likes Received:
    6,091
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Totally agree. There’s a lot of long time, really solid sleuths on this thread, who have interacted with each other on several gut wrenching past cases. IMHO, there’s a time to provide an extra level of scrutiny when things aren’t adding up. And it hasn’t happened often. I’m not talking about criticizing mental health issues. I’m talking about analyzing information presented in MSM. I personally think it helps future victims. That’s my 2 cents.
     
  15. dmac55

    dmac55 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    739
    Likes Received:
    5,244
    Trophy Points:
    93
    deleted by me
    Apparently i can't bite my tongue, shake my head, and type all at the same time;/
     
  16. JudgeJoe

    JudgeJoe Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,409
    Likes Received:
    19,213
    Trophy Points:
    113
    CNN interview makes frequent references to “they”- the hospital staff- where HC stayed for a few hours, or overnight, or more care needed, depending on which interview you watch or read. Nothing to do with NPS. Family story changes regarding basic facts not tied to HC’s memory. I don’t need the facts. Happy with the vague responses suggested by you & I & many other WSers. But if they want to share details, and alter those details several times, I care about that. Because good-hearted, generous, but gullible souls might donate dollars they really can’t spare for a cause that isn’t factual. That concerns me.
     
  17. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

    Messages:
    5,637
    Likes Received:
    16,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I' thinking the timeline was they had HC pinned down to Zion and then went looking for her car and not the other way around.
     
  18. iamnotagolem

    iamnotagolem Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,330
    Likes Received:
    2,031
    Trophy Points:
    113
    One of my biggest concerns for future cases is that someone will legitimately go missing and the resources to search and rescue them will be greatly diminished, volunteers will be less inclined from wasting time previously, donated items for searchers (water, food, lodging) will be less resulting in more cost by government agencies.

    I don’t necessarily think there should be a charge for SAR because that could result in people not calling when needed because of the cost. So if it’s only used as needed instead of in cases of fraud (not stating this as fact for this case) this will allow more people to benefit from a necessary service.

    I also worry that people will become increasingly less inclined to donate when someone is truly in need. I like the idea of crowd funding because if tons of people give a little no one is out a lot and someone in serious need benefits.
     
  19. Seattle1

    Seattle1 #LiveLikeLizzy

    Messages:
    18,799
    Likes Received:
    199,072
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Original post plus 5 updates attached

    There were 201 donations totaling $12,010 over 7-days.

    (GET was started on 10/15/20 about 9 days after HC last seen on 10/6/20).
     

    Attached Files:

  20. Coffiecat

    Coffiecat Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    340
    Likes Received:
    2,628
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Sister's interview, the tiny part she actually spoke rather than had summarized by editing, she stated the family had very little contact, and were told not to really do more than cheer her on. Not everyone will go full Sean Penn on the media.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice