Found Alive UT - Holly Suzanne Courtier, 38, Zion National Park, 6 Oct 2020

[24Brix]

You can go without water for 5-7 days?

No. Never. A water fast is water, coffee, or tea only. No calories. Intermittent fasting was a natural state for humans for millennia. A constant abundant supply of a variety of foods is a luxury our ancestors didn’t know. I’ll generally lose 5 or 6 lbs on a 7-day fast, though I confess I haven’t done one since the pandemic started. In fact, for the first time ever I actually have a pantry, lol!

If there is a lie being told, I believe it’s that her accident occurred early in her adventure. If she were just bopping around the countryside for the first week before getting into trouble it would explain a lot, IMO.

 

[gitana1]

Just a reminder of the toxic bloom situation and its effects even if you do not directly drink the contaminated water:

Toxic Cyanobacteria Bloom in the Virgin River and the Streams of Zion National Park - Zion National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

"Even very small pieces of the cyanobacterial growth may contain enough anatoxin-a to cause medical emergencies. These pieces of bacteria may be hard to see or even invisible.

Children and dogs are especially susceptible to being exposed to anatoxin-a. Anatoxin-a can be absorbed through the eyes, nose, or mouth by swimming in or submerging accidentally or unknowingly into contaminated water. Symptoms include skin rash, salivation, drowsiness, tingling, burning, numbness, pain, incoherent speech, seizures, vomiting, and diarrhea".

So the stuff about wetting her mouth and spitting it out is not likely.

 

[JudgeJoe]

I think the LE official who spoke explained it so well. She never would’ve been left to leave on her own like that if she was in as bad condition as the family is stating. And she wouldn’t be able to walk at all without water for all those days. There’s just no way.

Perhaps the family truly doesn’t understand any of this (how impossible the story is) and is buying the story. But the official who spoke should make that clear to them now. Maybe they should just stop speaking. They’re making it worse.

Except the story family is telling in interviews they claim came from medical professionals, not HC. Even how long HC was in hospital changes day to day. Nothing to “buy” with facts so simple to verify. LE & park officials have the credibility here.

 

[JudgeJoe]

No. Never. A water fast is water, coffee, or tea only. No calories. Intermittent fasting was a natural state for humans for millennia. A constant abundant supply of a variety of foods is a luxury our ancestors didn’t know. I’ll generally lose 5 or 6 lbs on a 7-day fast, though I confess I haven’t done one since the pandemic started. In fact, for the first time ever I actually have a pantry, lol!

If there is a lie being told, I believe it’s that her accident occurred early in her adventure. If she were just bopping around the countryside for the first week before getting into trouble it would explain a lot, IMO.

How about, she’s in the hospital overnight vs out the same day & flying back to CA that night? Can’t both be true.

 

[LAhiker]

No. Never. A water fast is water, coffee, or tea only. No calories. Intermittent fasting was a natural state for humans for millennia. A constant abundant supply of a variety of foods is a luxury our ancestors didn’t know. I’ll generally lose 5 or 6 lbs on a 7-day fast, though I confess I haven’t done one since the pandemic started. In fact, for the first time ever I actually have a pantry, lol!

If there is a lie being told, I believe it’s that her accident occurred early in her adventure. If she were just bopping around the countryside for the first week before getting into trouble it would explain a lot, IMO.

Do you mean, when searchers had already started looking for her? I gather she was dropped off in the park on Oct 6th. AFAIK, she was declared missing on Oct 8th. I think that was when her vehicle was found in a town near the park. I don't know the extent of search in the early days, but unless she left the park and came back, that would put her in ZNP while searchers were already looking for her. Maybe she was in some other part of the park from where they were looking; maybe she was actively evading them, I don't know. If she truly was fasting, I doubt she'd be bopping around, but who knows.

JMO

 

[Coffiecat]

• https://deq.utah.gov/water-quality/north-fork-of-the-virgin-river-algal-bloom-monitoring-2020

• "All water column samples taken without disturbing the cyanobacterial mats have been free of anatoxin-a."

"Cyanotoxin analysis has shown that anatoxin-a exists in high concentrations in the cyanobacteria mats and within the water column when mats are disturbed."

 

[gitana1]

If there was a mental breakdown I see no harm in letting people know, and besides they might not have the sheriff giving them the side eye.

Yes. I mean looking at past cases where that occurred, as long as the person involved didn’t make up a story “I was kidnapped” e.g., most people are pretty understanding.

However, reading posts which appear to equate mental health issues with weakness and/or a moral failing of some sort I can understand why they may be reluctant to say anything.

The problem for me is making things up. That I don’t like. Otherwise, whether a person went missing because they got injured, got lost or had a mental health issue is all the same to me. I blame no one for anything like that. Life is more important than bashing people for surviving, which is sometimes how it feels.

My only issue is being lied to. I’d want some information but I wouldn’t be upset if they made a vague statement to the effect of: “We are so grateful to everyone who prayed, hoped, and searched, especially...We are still trying to figure out exactly what happened. HC is in good condition now. But we are asking for privacy at this time as HC receives continued treatment.”

That’s it. Instead they just keep increasing the details and making it even weirder. They didn’t need to do that at all.

 

[LAhiker]

• https://deq.utah.gov/water-quality/north-fork-of-the-virgin-river-algal-bloom-monitoring-2020

• "All water column samples taken without disturbing the cyanobacterial mats have been free of anatoxin-a."

"Cyanotoxin analysis has shown that anatoxin-a exists in high concentrations in the cyanobacteria mats and within the water column when mats are disturbed."

So just don't disturb the cyanobacterial mat and no one gets hurt, eh? Still sounds very dangerous, especially when the update says that the mats can grow under clear water and can also detach and float downstream.

JMO

 

[gitana1]

Except the story family is telling in interviews they claim came from medical professionals, not HC. Even how long HC was in hospital changes day to day. Nothing to “buy” with facts so simple to verify. LE & park officials have the credibility here.

To my knowledge, neither LE not park officials have said whether she was in the hospital or not.

And we don’t know if the information about her condition came to the family filtered through HC or directly from doctors. I saw no “The doctor told me that...”. Just that “the doctors were shocked by her condition.”

Either way, clearly someone without food or water for 12 days would need more than just minimal assistance to get out. They’d need a stretcher...or a body bag.

It just isn’t possible and doesn’t make sense. But by this point it should be clear to them that that story can’t be accurate and isn’t logical. They sound defensive to me. They’re doing more damage than if they had just stayed silent.

 

[gitana1]

So just don't disturb the cyanobacterial mat and no one gets hurt, eh? Still sounds very dangerous, especially when the update says that the mats can grow under clear water and can also detach and float downstream.

JMO

I wonder if there’s a way to remove those mats.

 

[JudgeJoe]

Yes. I mean looking at past cases where that occurred, as long as the person involved didn’t make up a story “I was kidnapped” e.g., most people are pretty understanding.

However, reading posts which appear to equate mental health issues with weakness and/or a moral failing of some sort I can understand why they may be reluctant to say anything.

The problem for me is making things up. That I don’t like. Otherwise, whether a person went missing because they got injured, got lost or had a mental health issue is all the same to me. I blame no one for anything like that. Life is more important than bashing people for surviving, which is sometimes how it feels.

My only issue is being lied to. I’d want some information but I wouldn’t be upset if they made a vague statement to the effect of: “We are so grateful to everyone who prayed, hoped, and searched, especially...We are still trying to figure out exactly what happened. HC is in good condition now. But we are asking for privacy at this time as HC receives continued treatment.”

That’s it. Instead they just keep increasing the details and making it even weirder. They didn’t need to do that at all.

Totally agree. That’s the heart of these posts, imo. Changing stories. Lies. For Pete’s sake how can one get confused about when their loved one was released from the hospital? Or when she flew home after 12 days of searching? It’s weird, as you say, to lie about that. And why? Most people have high compassion for job loss, medical insurance issues, issues with stress & difficulty coping. But lies? Uh-uh. Compassion plummets with that. As we are seeing in this thread, and msm. Imo

 

[Coffiecat]

I wonder if there’s a way to remove those mats.

No, they've frail slime-like structures, more like wet toilet paper than a rug.

 

[Coffiecat]

So just don't disturb the cyanobacterial mat and no one gets hurt, eh? Still sounds very dangerous, especially when the update says that the mats can grow under clear water and can also detach and float downstream.

JMO

The water column tests negative, until the mats are disturbed. Zero. Sure, they can grow under clear water, and in an undisturbed mountain waterway, would just cling to their anchor point. Less dangerous than death by dehydration, methinks.

 

[mrstfs]

Totally agree. That’s the heart of these posts, imo. Changing stories. Lies. For Pete’s sake how can one get confused about when their loved one was released from the hospital? Or when she flew home after 12 days of searching? It’s weird, as you say, to lie about that. And why? Most people have high compassion for job loss, medical insurance issues, issues with stress & difficulty coping. But lies? Uh-uh. Compassion plummets with that. As we are seeing in this thread, and msm. Imo

Totally agree. There’s a lot of long time, really solid sleuths on this thread, who have interacted with each other on several gut wrenching past cases. IMHO, there’s a time to provide an extra level of scrutiny when things aren’t adding up. And it hasn’t happened often. I’m not talking about criticizing mental health issues. I’m talking about analyzing information presented in MSM. I personally think it helps future victims. That’s my 2 cents.

 

[dmac55]

deleted by me
Apparently i can't bite my tongue, shake my head, and type all at the same time;/

 

[JudgeJoe]

To my knowledge, neither LE not park officials have said whether she was in the hospital or not.

And we don’t know if the information about her condition came to the family filtered through HC or directly from doctors. I saw no “The doctor told me that...”. Just that “the doctors were shocked by her condition.”

Either way, clearly someone without food or water for 12 days would need more than just minimal assistance to get out. They’d need a stretcher...or a body bag.

It just isn’t possible and doesn’t make sense. But by this point it should be clear to them that story can’t be accurate and isn’t logical. They sound defensive to me. They’re doing more damage than if they had just stayed silent.

CNN interview makes frequent references to “they”- the hospital staff- where HC stayed for a few hours, or overnight, or more care needed, depending on which interview you watch or read. Nothing to do with NPS. Family story changes regarding basic facts not tied to HC’s memory. I don’t need the facts. Happy with the vague responses suggested by you & I & many other WSers. But if they want to share details, and alter those details several times, I care about that. Because good-hearted, generous, but gullible souls might donate dollars they really can’t spare for a cause that isn’t factual. That concerns me.

 

[RickshawFan]

While I'm as suspicious as the next person, wasn't her vehicle found in a town near Zion National Park?

I' thinking the timeline was they had HC pinned down to Zion and then went looking for her car and not the other way around.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Totally agree. There’s a lot of long time, really solid sleuths on this thread, who have interacted with each other on several gut wrenching past cases. IMHO, there’s a time to provide an extra level of scrutiny when things aren’t adding up. And it hasn’t happened often. I’m not talking about criticizing mental health issues. I’m talking about analyzing information presented in MSM. I personally think it helps future victims. That’s my 2 cents.

One of my biggest concerns for future cases is that someone will legitimately go missing and the resources to search and rescue them will be greatly diminished, volunteers will be less inclined from wasting time previously, donated items for searchers (water, food, lodging) will be less resulting in more cost by government agencies.

I don’t necessarily think there should be a charge for SAR because that could result in people not calling when needed because of the cost. So if it’s only used as needed instead of in cases of fraud (not stating this as fact for this case) this will allow more people to benefit from a necessary service.

I also worry that people will become increasingly less inclined to donate when someone is truly in need. I like the idea of crowd funding because if tons of people give a little no one is out a lot and someone in serious need benefits.

 

[Seattle1]

Good question. I tried to locate the RP yesterday and never did find out who that was. Shuttle driver? It was all rather vague on the ZNP FB page, plus, the original post was heavily edited with each update (kind of like the FindMeCash description edits) so, I struck out there.

If anyone does locate the original reporting party & details, that'd be great.

Original post plus 5 updates attached

There were 201 donations totaling $12,010 over 7-days.

(GET was started on 10/15/20 about 9 days after HC last seen on 10/6/20).

 

[Coffiecat]

Sister's interview, the tiny part she actually spoke rather than had summarized by editing, she stated the family had very little contact, and were told not to really do more than cheer her on. Not everyone will go full Sean Penn on the media.