Found Alive UT - Holly Suzanne Courtier, 38, Zion National Park, 6 Oct 2020

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by doublestop, Oct 10, 2020.

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  1. Coffiecat

    Coffiecat Well-Known Member

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    And they have posted sincere updates, acknowledging discrepancies, and offering refunds without resistance.

    A complaint, with or without their very well written update, would have been cause for the platform to investigate, right?
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020


  2. iamnotagolem

    iamnotagolem Well-Known Member

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    Offering refunds when she was found and they realized it wasn’t necessary would have made sense. They’ve been called out on every social media platform and now in main stream media and being accused of it being a scam, if they didn’t offer refunds at this point then an investigation would be launched by the platform that they collected money from.
     
  3. oviedo

    oviedo Well-Known Member

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    Exactly - and then comes the criminal investigation which we’ve seen before - we just wait for the details IMO
     
  4. MimosaMornings

    MimosaMornings Well- Known Member

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    Am I missing something? I’m not seeing a lot of victim blaming on this thread directed at HC. I’ve seen questioning of odd circumstances or conflicting statements and discussion.

    It seems more like trying to make the puzzle pieces fit together to gain understanding how this event started and generated a large search event, with a successful rescue ending. Sleuthing.

    Would knowing HC had previous mental issues helped? Perhaps, that might have helped knowing she might not be thinking rationally, hiding, etc. How about knowing she fasted on a regular basis? Any piece of information is important when a family member is missing.

    Don’t make it sound like she’s a little old lady that only drives 5 miles to church at 35 miles per hour when she’s out at the drag strip every weekend racing in a souped up Camaro.

    It’s different if someone plans to go hike/camp/etc and set things in motion for publicity, financial gain, movie rights, marketing ploy, etc.

    JMO
     
  5. LietKynes

    LietKynes "Law is the ultimate science" Liet Kynes

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    Ita.
    Even IF there is eventually a criminal investigation, and IF there are citations issued for false claims, there still has not been victim blaming in this thread.
    None whatsoever.
    Ob social media, perhaps ?
    But then most of us know what SM is like.

    So, sticking to just the facts.

    Has there been proof that the crowd funding monies were returned ?
    Or was the massive rescue operation compensated at all ?
    We have valid questions.
    If the family feels any inquiries at all, are confrontational -- they need to step up and explain what happened.
    When LE make a statement as they have, there are bound to be people wondering where she was exactly during the 12 days.
    Fair enough to ask.

    It's one thing to say that refunds have been offered, but quite another for the recipient to say they've been compensated or for the contributors to the crowd funding, to state they have had their cash returned.
    At this time there's been zero proof of this happening.
    Not saying that it can't occur in the future.
    Imo.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
  6. steff13

    steff13 Well-Known Member

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    But the bolded portions have been disputed by LE, correct? So they've admitted she has MH issues, but they're still peddling the "she was practically dead" story, even though the facts don't necessarily support that.
     
  7. LietKynes

    LietKynes "Law is the ultimate science" Liet Kynes

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    Update: Never mind.

    Have taken a look around at articles about HC and have not found any links saying they've returned any of the money, nor have they compensated the search and rescue operation.
    But it's possible they may still do the right thing and return the money.
    The crowd funding site is still active and collecting $$$.
    It's a better choice if faced with a citation or jail time for a scam.
    Not saying there was a scam yet as we do not know this.
    MOO
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
  8. Seni

    Seni Well-Known Member

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    In Joe's absence I have found that yes mosquitos all year according to NP website, but let's wait for his opinion especially regarding situation at this time of year.
     
  9. JudgeJoe

    JudgeJoe Well-Known Member

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    The NPS sheriff liaison said HC would have died without a potable water source- so that part is compatible it seems. The rest isn’t completely coming clean imo, but at least they are making it easy for people to feel they can seek refund. I’m still interested to see final NPS report. Very curious how that closes out.
     
  10. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    Oh! A cache makes a lot of sense.
     
  11. Seni

    Seni Well-Known Member

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    Bolded excerpt from great post:

    I think you are right. HC herself is maybe saying nothing.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
  12. mickey2942

    mickey2942 Well-Known Member

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    Are we so glued to cell phones that it is considered a "mental health" emergency when people leave their house without a cell phone?!

    "OMG! She went on a trip without a CELL PHONE!". Must be a psychotic break!

    Just saying. Can't people get away for a week or two without having a search party organized?

    Maybe this whole brouhaha is a bunch of drama, and Holly is trying to just salvage the mess.
     
  13. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    Based on that I think they’re circling the wagons. Not being in the best frame of mind doesn’t explain the discrepancies. Like how someone survives 14 days without food and 12 days without water and isn’t dead and/or hospitalized with kidney failure. Like how someone is either hospitalized overnight or goes home the same day- not both. And like how someone whose kidneys have been damaged from lack of water did not need to be in the hospital for multiple days instead of mere hours.

    I think this lady may have had a mental health issue but decided to hide for awhile and now her family is making statements to try to quell the voices of people who are questioning what happened. But they’re making it so much worse. They should’ve just kept it vague and then stayed quiet.

    She could not have survived for 12 days without water. It’s impossible. She was hiding, I believe. I don’t blame her. If she was having a breakdown of some sort she could’ve felt that was what she needed to do. Thank God she was found alive. Others are never found after disappearing in a similar condition. Like Bryce Laspisa.

    But her family is really actually making people suspicious and angry by making things up that can’t all be true. Or by repeating nonsensical information that at this point they have to know can’t be accurate.

    They’re kind of doing a disservice, I believe in their zeal to defend her.

    I don’t think they needed to defend her. To me, they should’ve been more reasonable when they heard something that couldn’t have been true and made a gracious statement and left it alone.

    Now they have people howling like wolves about this situation.

    But I guess it’s easy to know how to act and what to say or not say, when I’m not in their shoes.
     
  14. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    That’s a good point. Something to think about.

    However I think hiking terrain like that without giving others an itinerary, not taking a phone and not contacting their family or re-emerging could be a sign that something is wrong if the person doesn’t typically do that. Especially if they usually call their kid every day and suddenly stop with no warning.
     
  15. Seni

    Seni Well-Known Member

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    I have bolded the parts that I will refer to.

    The Sheriff, representative of all searches is fully qualified to make such an observation involving all the teams and man power used by his department. More so to clarify and justify the methods used. Which he did.also backing up the Np representative who said that HC was able to leave the park by her own means.

    As regards the second point, if a river is contaminated it is contaminated, that doesn´t just stop in one spot. Nowhere do I find safe spots.

    The river is highly contaminated, it does not matter if the dog disturbs the algae. Signs are posted all over the park.
     
  16. mickey2942

    mickey2942 Well-Known Member

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    Note to self: make sure family does not organize search party for me if I don't call them every day. :p
     
  17. Seni

    Seni Well-Known Member

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    Ok. fab. Link does not open. But in any case WHY go against public health warnings that are plastered across the park?? Do you know if the mats have been disturbed? Neither do I.
     
  18. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    Snipped for focus
    Regarding "without resistance", we have no way to know that. There's no evidence either way if this was at the family's initiative or the company where they advertised for donations required it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
  19. Seni

    Seni Well-Known Member

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    Youthinks totally wrong.
     
  20. Seni

    Seni Well-Known Member

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    You can find the them in the news articles posted on here.
     
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