Found Alive UT - Holly Suzanne Courtier, 38, Zion National Park, 6 Oct 2020

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Coffiecat

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They've raised over $12k in a go fund me. It's hard to let go of preconceived notions for anyone, much less when they concern a loved family member.

And they have posted sincere updates, acknowledging discrepancies, and offering refunds without resistance.

A complaint, with or without their very well written update, would have been cause for the platform to investigate, right?
 
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iamnotagolem

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Offering refunds when she was found and they realized it wasn’t necessary would have made sense. They’ve been called out on every social media platform and now in main stream media and being accused of it being a scam, if they didn’t offer refunds at this point then an investigation would be launched by the platform that they collected money from.
 

oviedo

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Offering refunds when she was found and they realized it wasn’t necessary would have made sense. They’ve been called out on every social media platform and now in main stream media and being accused of it being a scam, if they didn’t offer refunds at this point then an investigation would be launched by the platform that they collected money from.
Exactly - and then comes the criminal investigation which we’ve seen before - we just wait for the details IMO
 

MimosaMornings

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Am I missing something? I’m not seeing a lot of victim blaming on this thread directed at HC. I’ve seen questioning of odd circumstances or conflicting statements and discussion.

It seems more like trying to make the puzzle pieces fit together to gain understanding how this event started and generated a large search event, with a successful rescue ending. Sleuthing.

Would knowing HC had previous mental issues helped? Perhaps, that might have helped knowing she might not be thinking rationally, hiding, etc. How about knowing she fasted on a regular basis? Any piece of information is important when a family member is missing.

Don’t make it sound like she’s a little old lady that only drives 5 miles to church at 35 miles per hour when she’s out at the drag strip every weekend racing in a souped up Camaro.

It’s different if someone plans to go hike/camp/etc and set things in motion for publicity, financial gain, movie rights, marketing ploy, etc.

JMO
 

LietKynes

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Offering refunds when she was found and they realized it wasn’t necessary would have made sense. They’ve been called out on every social media platform and now in main stream media and being accused of it being a scam, if they didn’t offer refunds at this point then an investigation would be launched by the platform that they collected money from.
Ita.
Even IF there is eventually a criminal investigation, and IF there are citations issued for false claims, there still has not been victim blaming in this thread.
None whatsoever.
Ob social media, perhaps ?
But then most of us know what SM is like.

So, sticking to just the facts.

Has there been proof that the crowd funding monies were returned ?
Or was the massive rescue operation compensated at all ?
We have valid questions.
If the family feels any inquiries at all, are confrontational -- they need to step up and explain what happened.
When LE make a statement as they have, there are bound to be people wondering where she was exactly during the 12 days.
Fair enough to ask.

It's one thing to say that refunds have been offered, but quite another for the recipient to say they've been compensated or for the contributors to the crowd funding, to state they have had their cash returned.
At this time there's been zero proof of this happening.
Not saying that it can't occur in the future.
Imo.
 
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steff13

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Holly has suffered from mental health issues in the past and went on her hike not in the best frame of mind. She did not intend to become injured or so weak on her journey. Nor, did she intend for her trip to become a search and rescue effort. If Holly was not found when she was, she would have died.

But the bolded portions have been disputed by LE, correct? So they've admitted she has MH issues, but they're still peddling the "she was practically dead" story, even though the facts don't necessarily support that.
 

LietKynes

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Update: Never mind.

Have taken a look around at articles about HC and have not found any links saying they've returned any of the money, nor have they compensated the search and rescue operation.
But it's possible they may still do the right thing and return the money.
The crowd funding site is still active and collecting $$$.
It's a better choice if faced with a citation or jail time for a scam.
Not saying there was a scam yet as we do not know this.
MOO
 
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Seni

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@Vacajoe (or anyone) any nuisance biting insects around this time of year in that area? (biting flies, mosquitoes, etc.) If active this time of year, I would think she would have struggled with them being outside, exposed to the elements, 24/7, for 12 days. IMO

In Joe's absence I have found that yes mosquitos all year according to NP website, but let's wait for his opinion especially regarding situation at this time of year.
 

JudgeJoe

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But the bolded portions have been disputed by LE, correct? So they've admitted she has MH issues, but they're still peddling the "she was practically dead" story, even though the facts don't necessarily support that.
The NPS sheriff liaison said HC would have died without a potable water source- so that part is compatible it seems. The rest isn’t completely coming clean imo, but at least they are making it easy for people to feel they can seek refund. I’m still interested to see final NPS report. Very curious how that closes out.
 

Seni

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I stated many pages ago even when hikers do risky things, make poor choices, go unprepared, etc. I want them to be rescued, I want them to recover and live. I’m not a fan of charging the person for the rescue even and gave reasons why. I am in favor of fines/tickets if park policy was broken. That’s up to Zion to decide based on their info fact gathering.

I personally don’t think this was a scam or an false attempt to get donations. I will gladly eat crow if I’m wrong. I have negative opinions on G*M in general, when you ask for donations, you invite the public in. Many will feel vested. I always think you donate at your own risk. I am always amazed at the good folks who will donate, maybe even when they don’t really have much to give. If there was any fraud here, I suppose G*M will investigate, maybe LE as well.

I sincerely wish Holly well. I have no clue about her mental state but remembering questioning it at the very beginning, with many others.

Maybe her own family doesn’t even realize what they are reporting sounds absurd.

I think it’s possible HC wanted to step out of her life and left. Maybe she wanted away from every single person she loves even. I do think you have to be somewhat clear headed to drive from California to Utah, especially somewhere as specific as Zion. Maybe when she realized they were looking for her, she felt like she was in too deep, she knew she would have to answer some questions about what the heck was going on to both officials and her family, then we have the start of one lie after another instead of just saying what happened. Or, she believes what she’s saying. No clue. That’s as far as I’ll go, I believe, with the potential mental health side of this.

IMO


Bolded excerpt from great post:

I think you are right. HC herself is maybe saying nothing.
 
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mickey2942

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Are we so glued to cell phones that it is considered a "mental health" emergency when people leave their house without a cell phone?!

"OMG! She went on a trip without a CELL PHONE!". Must be a psychotic break!

Just saying. Can't people get away for a week or two without having a search party organized?

Maybe this whole brouhaha is a bunch of drama, and Holly is trying to just salvage the mess.
 

gitana1

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Here is the last update posted on the closed GET. This confirms what I've suspected or that HC has suffered from mental issues in the past and ventured off to Zion NOT IN THE BEST FRAME OF MIND.

The update also acknowledges the inconsistencies reported by media.

Take note that the family is offering refunds to anybody that asks and/or encourages donors to contact GET them for the same.

Also, the Original GET text and all 5 updates posted in the quote above.

For whatever reason, I don't think this update will satisfy some readers.

Sorry for all that remain offended by HC and her family.


*UPDATED 10-22-20*

We understand many of you have questions regarding Holly’s search and rescue. The below article will address many of those questions:

Sister of missing Zion hiker says her survival without food and water was 'a miracle'

Holly has suffered from mental health issues in the past and went on her hike not in the best frame of mind. She did not intend to become injured or so weak on her journey. Nor, did she intend for her trip to become a search and rescue effort. If Holly was not found when she was, she would have died.

The intent of Holly’s Go Fund Me has always been to aid the search and recovery efforts as well as post recovery care. In order to provide as much transparency as possible, I am detailing what your donations will be used for:


• Funds will be used to reimburse the family and friend's costs in searching for Holly. (Such as; hotels rooms, equipment purchased to look for Holly, car rentals, and food for search parties. • A separate bank account will be opened up to reimburse these individuals. • A remainder of the donations will be used to cover the medical care applied to Holly during her hospital stay as well as therapy costs moving forward.


We appreciate everyone’s continued support. This fundraiser is, and always was, 100 percent legitimate. However, we acknowledge and respect people’s concerns over the many inaccuracies portrayed by the press and social media regarding Holly’s ordeal. Whomever has concerns about our use of their donation is welcome to request a refund without any objection from the family. You may do so by contacting Go Fund Me and go through their refund process.

Based on that I think they’re circling the wagons. Not being in the best frame of mind doesn’t explain the discrepancies. Like how someone survives 14 days without food and 12 days without water and isn’t dead and/or hospitalized with kidney failure. Like how someone is either hospitalized overnight or goes home the same day- not both. And like how someone whose kidneys have been damaged from lack of water did not need to be in the hospital for multiple days instead of mere hours.

I think this lady may have had a mental health issue but decided to hide for awhile and now her family is making statements to try to quell the voices of people who are questioning what happened. But they’re making it so much worse. They should’ve just kept it vague and then stayed quiet.

She could not have survived for 12 days without water. It’s impossible. She was hiding, I believe. I don’t blame her. If she was having a breakdown of some sort she could’ve felt that was what she needed to do. Thank God she was found alive. Others are never found after disappearing in a similar condition. Like Bryce Laspisa.

But her family is really actually making people suspicious and angry by making things up that can’t all be true. Or by repeating nonsensical information that at this point they have to know can’t be accurate.

They’re kind of doing a disservice, I believe in their zeal to defend her.

I don’t think they needed to defend her. To me, they should’ve been more reasonable when they heard something that couldn’t have been true and made a gracious statement and left it alone.

Now they have people howling like wolves about this situation.

But I guess it’s easy to know how to act and what to say or not say, when I’m not in their shoes.
 

gitana1

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Are we so glued to cell phones that it is considered a "mental health" emergency when people leave their house without a cell phone?!

"OMG! She went on a trip without a CELL PHONE!". Must be a psychotic break!

Just saying. Can't people get away for a week or two without having a search party organized?

Maybe this whole brouhaha is a bunch of drama, and Holly is trying to just salvage the mess.

That’s a good point. Something to think about.

However I think hiking terrain like that without giving others an itinerary, not taking a phone and not contacting their family or re-emerging could be a sign that something is wrong if the person doesn’t typically do that. Especially if they usually call their kid every day and suddenly stop with no warning.
 

Seni

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<modsnip: Referenced post was removed>

Sgt Cashin seems a little too eager to share his doubts, from a professional LE/SAR liaison. IMSLTHO

"Minimal assistance", was this after SAR tended to her? A little fresh water, reassuring voices, maybe an IV or sugary drink? There is a LOT of 2nd hand and paraphrased commentary involved in the case.

First responders and loved ones, may not see the condition of a survivor of an ordeal, identically.

Head injury was early on, and may have been enough to disorient her until weakness from fasting and dehydration took over?

Survival quantities of water are well below some of the hyperbolized commentary. Especially if the person isn't doing much moving about. Not digesting food reduces need, as well.

The river toxicity at that exact spot didn't appear to be mentioned, but areas of very high levels were noted. As were some not far beyond "healthy", and some within safe range. The dog that died had stirred up and ate chunks of algae.

Mental health may be a factor in this. We are facing some unusually trying times, and many people are handling it in many different ways. The myopic "Suck it up" mentality in large part explains the hesitance to seek mental health and substance abuse help.

Certainties of the case:
She was missing.
People were concerned.
She was found. Alive.
She has people helping her get the aftercare she needs.

I have bolded the parts that I will refer to.

The Sheriff, representative of all searches is fully qualified to make such an observation involving all the teams and man power used by his department. More so to clarify and justify the methods used. Which he did.also backing up the Np representative who said that HC was able to leave the park by her own means.

As regards the second point, if a river is contaminated it is contaminated, that doesn´t just stop in one spot. Nowhere do I find safe spots.

The river is highly contaminated, it does not matter if the dog disturbs the algae. Signs are posted all over the park.
 

mickey2942

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That’s a good point. Something to think about.

However I think hiking terrain like that without giving others an itinerary, not taking a phone and not contacting their family or re-emerging could be a sign that something is wrong if the person doesn’t typically do that. Especially if they usually call their kid every day and suddenly stop with no warning.

Note to self: make sure family does not organize search party for me if I don't call them every day. :p
 

Seni

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  • "All water column samples taken without disturbing the cyanobacterial mats have been free of anatoxin-a."

"Cyanotoxin analysis has shown that anatoxin-a exists in high concentrations in the cyanobacteria mats and within the water column when mats are disturbed."

Ok. fab. Link does not open. But in any case WHY go against public health warnings that are plastered across the park?? Do you know if the mats have been disturbed? Neither do I.
 

RickshawFan

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And they have posted sincere updates, acknowledging discrepancies, and offering refunds without resistance.
Snipped for focus
Regarding "without resistance", we have no way to know that. There's no evidence either way if this was at the family's initiative or the company where they advertised for donations required it.
 
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