Found Alive UT - Holly Suzanne Courtier, 38, Zion National Park, 6 Oct 2020

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RickshawFan

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In Joe's absence I have found that yes mosquitos all year according to NP website, but let's wait for his opinion especially regarding situation at this time of year.
Zion doesn't strike me as a mosquito-y kind of place. However, they might very well have significant mosquitoes at snow melt. And other than that, not a bothersome swarm-iness.
 

Seattle1

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Based on that I think they’re circling the wagons. Not being in the best frame of mind doesn’t explain the discrepancies. Like how someone survives 14 days without food and 12 days without water and isn’t dead and/or hospitalized with kidney failure. Like how someone is either hospitalized overnight or goes home the same day- not both. And like how someone whose kidneys have been damaged from lack of water did not need to be in the hospital for multiple days instead of mere hours.

I think this lady may have had a mental health issue but decided to hide for awhile and now her family is making statements to try to quell the voices of people who are questioning what happened. But they’re making it so much worse. They should’ve just kept it vague and then stayed quiet.

She could not have survived for 12 days without water. It’s impossible. She was hiding, I believe. I don’t blame her. If she was having a breakdown of some sort she could’ve felt that was what she needed to do. Thank God she was found alive. Others are never found after disappearing in a similar condition. Like Bryce Laspisa.

But her family is really actually making people suspicious and angry by making things up that can’t all be true. Or by repeating nonsensical information that at this point they have to know can’t be accurate.

They’re kind of doing a disservice, I believe in their zeal to defend her.

I don’t think they needed to defend her. To me, they should’ve been more reasonable when they heard something that couldn’t have been true and made a gracious statement and left it alone.

Now they have people howling like wolves about this situation.

But I guess it’s easy to know how to act and what to say or not say, when I’m not in their shoes.

It seems a 19-year-old told the best story she could think of to defend her mom, and the cover-up kept getting bigger and bigger until the Sheriff, knowledgeable in HC's rescue, called them (daughter and hiker's sister) out on the nonsense they were pushing.

The daughter must have been beside herself during this ordeal, and she should not have been the spokesperson over which so much scrutiny resulted. Personally, I think mom's life was/is probably upside down and HC returned to the park to escape -- perhaps not ever wanting to be found.

HC left home in the middle of the night under strange circumstances. We learned that she'd been to Zion only a couple of weeks earlier with her daughter to celebrate the daughter's 19th birthday. The daughter stated she last talked to her mom on Oct 2.

According to the National Park Service, Courtier, 38, was last seen at 1:30 p.m. (Oct 6) when she was dropped off by a shuttle bus at the Grotto parking area. She never made it onto the return shuttle later that day.

I'm happy HC is safe at home and hope gets the help she obviously needs. It seems HC is usually the leader of the sister pack and they did the best they could when their fearless leader was not functioning.

MOO


Daughter of Calif. Woman Who Disappeared During Hike at National Park in Utah Speaks Out
 

ADudeInUtah

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That’s a good point. Something to think about.

However I think hiking terrain like that without giving others an itinerary, not taking a phone and not contacting their family or re-emerging could be a sign that something is wrong if the person doesn’t typically do that. Especially if they usually call their kid every day and suddenly stop with no warning.

So why didn't the family disclose this from the start? Reports about missing persons often disclose issues that a person might be suffering from, past and present, including mental health issues. The family never disclosed it until after she was found and only after the authorities started to question her (their) details of the 12 days she was missing (hiding). Seems like it would have been relevant information. To disclose this after the fact feels more like damage control, providing an excuse for her actions.
 

steff13

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The NPS sheriff liaison said HC would have died without a potable water source- so that part is compatible it seems. The rest isn’t completely coming clean imo, but at least they are making it easy for people to feel they can seek refund. I’m still interested to see final NPS report. Very curious how that closes out.

She would have been dead without potable water. She clearly had water, so I would tend to believe that the family's statement about her level of dehydration was embellished.

Ultimately, it's great she's alive, but I don't think I'd believe her family if they told me the sky was blue. There's too much inconsistency.
 

Seni

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Respectfully bolded. Care to share your source?

I have also followed from the beginning, and seen/read interviews, prior to commenting. AGAIN, it's mostly second hand, and been paraphrased.

Her daughter, prior to her being rescued, had mentioned she had little food or water. That it got turned to NONE, on second hand accounts from family members, then clung to with Pit Bull ferocity, struck me as odd. Like the toxic algae. Water column tests showed ZERO, so unless she stirred it up, or an animal did so closely upstream, it's not dangerous.[/QUOTE]
 
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RickshawFan

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The NPS sheriff liaison said HC would have died without a potable water source- so that part is compatible it seems. The rest isn’t completely coming clean imo, but at least they are making it easy for people to feel they can seek refund. I’m still interested to see final NPS report. Very curious how that closes out.
BBM Maybe you're saying the same thing, but IMO the sheriff was implying she got herself a clean water source and it wasn't the Virgin River. She would have been dead if she drank from the Virgin River and dead if she didn't drink water for the relevant length of time. Ergo, she had a source.
She also wasn't so dehydrated she couldn't get out under her own steam. Ergo, she had a substantial water source.
Water was also easy to get. She was only 1/2 mile from the trailhead. Restroom. It's not the tastiest, but would have been fine. There might even have been a bottle-filling fountain; these days I seem to see these all over the place.
 

JudgeJoe

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It seems a 19-year-old told the best story she could think of to defend her mom, and the cover-up kept getting bigger and bigger until the Sheriff, knowledgeable in HC's rescue, called them (daughter and hiker's sister) out on the nonsense they were pushing.

The daughter must have been beside herself during this ordeal, and she should not have been the spokesperson over which so much scrutiny resulted. Personally, I think mom's life was/is probably upside down and HC returned to the park to escape -- perhaps not ever wanting to be found.

HC left home in the middle of the night under strange circumstances. We learned that she'd been to Zion only a couple of weeks earlier with her daughter to celebrate the daughter's 19th birthday. The daughter stated she last talked to her mom on Oct 2.

According to the National Park Service, Courtier, 38, was last seen at 1:30 p.m. (Oct 6) when she was dropped off by a shuttle bus at the Grotto parking area. She never made it onto the return shuttle later that day.

I'm happy HC is safe at home and hope gets the help she obviously needs. It seems HC is usually the leader of the sister pack and they did the best they could when their fearless leader was not functioning.

MOO


Daughter of Calif. Woman Who Disappeared During Hike at National Park in Utah Speaks Out
I am hoping this is what happened. Good chance it’s spot on, imo. This would be a very tough circumstance in which to have to learn on the fly how to deal with msm. Even so, still weird with changing details. And still want to see final NPS report.
 

Ontario Mom

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Are we so glued to cell phones that it is considered a "mental health" emergency when people leave their house without a cell phone?!

"OMG! She went on a trip without a CELL PHONE!". Must be a psychotic break!

RSBM

Sadly, in a nutshell the answer is YES, we have in fact become a society that truly does believe if we leave the house without our digital leash, we're suffering from some form of mental health issue, and/or may be acting in an irresponsible manor, for not being in Constant Contact.

Honestly, it's kind of creepy, but here we are.

jmo
 

JudgeJoe

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RSBM

Sadly, in a nutshell the answer is YES, we have in fact become a society that truly does believe if we leave the house without our digital leash, we're suffering from some form of mental health issue, and/or may be acting in an irresponsible manor, for not being in Constant Contact.

Honestly, it's kind of creepy, but here we are.

jmo
I don’t view carrying a cell phone as a mental issue or constant contact issue. But I do see it as a basic safety tool. I would no more go hiking without my phone than I would without my bear spray, bad kitty, snacks, water & filter. But that’s just me. No need to be checking the dang thing. Do take an occasional pic though.
 

mickey2942

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I don’t view carrying a cell phone as a mental issue or constant contact issue. But I do see it as a basic safety tool. I would no more go hiking without my phone than I would without my bear spray, bad kitty, snacks, water & filter. But that’s just me. No need to be checking the dang thing. Do take an occasional pic though.

Pretty much we don't bother, a lot of NPS do not have cell service, because there are no cell towers allowed in National Parks.
 

Vacajoe

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@Vacajoe (or anyone) any nuisance biting insects around this time of year in that area? (biting flies, mosquitoes, etc.) If active this time of year, I would think she would have struggled with them being outside, exposed to the elements, 24/7, for 12 days. IMO

Mosquitos love my wife, but we encountered zero in my three four days there late September! Oddly enough, it’s tarantula migration season... The weather at that time of year is not conducive to them: too dry, chilly, and there’s a morning wind that would blow them all the way to Springdale.

As to weather the toxins in the river are disturbed or not, she was only a few miles downstream from the Narrows where hundreds and sometimes thousands of bikers tromp through the water daily. THAT certainly disturbs the algae which then floats downstream.

Finally, the Grotto stop DEFINITELY has potable water, 24/7.
 

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Pretty much we don't bother, a lot of NPS do not have cell service, because there are no cell towers allowed in National Parks.
NPS enthusiast here. I’ve had enough cell reception in many NPs & forest lands to send a check-in text. Might have to hoof it up a boulder & stand on one leg at an odd angle, but service is there in my experience.
 

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I'm not aware of a resolved case where the public wanted to know additional details about the search. Is the NPS search report for HC a matter of public record or does this fall in the jurisdiction of the Washington County Sheriff's office?

It's really too bad this family didn't stop at the published thank you released by NPS and leave the details for the public to the Sheriff and/or NPS.

missing-person-found - Zion National Park (U.S. National Park Service)
 
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Seni

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Ok, going back to things we "know".

HC did not make it further than half a mile from Grotto stop. That would have taken at best only 20 minutes from where she was dropped off.

That was where she hung her hammock and where she subsequently hit her head on the tree rendering her incapable and disorientated.

Why did she not trek a little further to find a beauty spot to hang that hammock? Instead of next to a picnic area?
 

RickshawFan

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I love random serendipitous moments... Someone mentioned the word "whistle" to me, and I'm off and running, oh my gosh!

Woah! A whistle! I didn't even think of that! There's one attached to that pack she has. She didn't use it! A whistle is way more effective than yelling, because it carries better and it doesn't tire out your voice.

And it's built into the buckle on the sternum strap. It's not like you can take it off the pack unless you want to make an essential element useless.

I totally know this because I'm a pack-fit maven and I orient pack owners to the whistle feature just in case they have an emergency. The whistle is situated right in front of your chin, so it's right there when you need it.

She had to have known there was a whistle.... She didn't use it.

Are you ready for this? I took a photo! I don't have my Osprey Ariel with me, so I took a photo of the same thing on another pack. (The Osprey Ariel is the pack she bought or maybe the men's version of that).

Gosh, I'm so clever sometimes...

***** How do I upload a photo?
 

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iamnotagolem

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I'm not aware of a case where the public wanted to know additional details about the search. Is the NPS search report for HC a matter of public record or does this fall in the jurisdiction of the Washington County Sheriff's office?

It's really too bad this family didn't stop at the published thank you released by NPS and leave the details for the public to the Sheriff and/or NPS.

missing-person-found - Zion National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

bbm Sherri Panini comes to mind
 

Seattle1

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I love random serendipitous moments... Someone mentioned the word "whistle" to me, and I'm off and running, oh my gosh!

Woah! A whistle! I didn't even think of that! There's one attached to that pack she has. She didn't use it! A whistle is way more effective than yelling, because it carries better and it doesn't tire out your voice.

And it's built into the buckle on the sternum strap. It's not like you can take it off the pack unless you want to make an essential element useless.

I totally know this because I'm a pack-fit maven and I orient pack owners to the whistle feature just in case they have an emergency. The whistle is situated right in front of your chin, so it's right there when you need it.

She had to have known there was a whistle.... She didn't use it.

Are you ready for this? I took a photo! I don't have my Osprey Ariel with me, so I took a photo of the same thing on another pack. (The Osprey Ariel is the pack she bought or maybe the men's version of that).

Gosh, I'm so clever sometimes...

***** How do I upload a photo?
Are you posting from your phone?
 

JudgeJoe

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I'm not aware of a case where the public wanted to know additional details about the search. Is the NPS search report for HC a matter of public record or does this fall in the jurisdiction of the Washington County Sheriff's office?

It's really too bad this family didn't stop at the published thank you released by NPS and leave the details for the public to the Sheriff and/or NPS.

missing-person-found - Zion National Park (U.S. National Park Service)
That’s odd. I’m not aware of a case the public didn’t want to know search details. Aubree, Jaxon, Stephanie, Hawaii lady, FL hotel lady- just a few, many more. Some WSers have gone so far as to seek ME reports or death certificates, FOIA requests, etc. Nothing unusual having similar interest in this case, imo.
 

Seni

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