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UT - James Dudley Barker, 42, Salt Lake City, killed by LE, 7 Jan 2015

Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by MsFacetious, Jan 8, 2015.

  1. MsFacetious

    MsFacetious What a Kerfuffle...

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    A man who allegedly was offering to shovel walks for money before hitting a Salt Lake City police officer with the shovel was shot and killed by the officer Thursday in Salt Lake City's Avenues area, according to police.

    The incident happened just before 4 p.m. near 2nd Avenue and I Street.

    http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=33032628&fm=related_story&s_cid=article-related-1


    Police: Man shot, killed by cop had attacked officer with a shovel

    ----------------------

    Police officials said they believe the officer involved was wearing a body camera at the time
    the shooting occurred, but they said they could not confirm that detail Thursday night.

    http://fox13now.com/2015/01/08/man-...ounds-police-respond-to-avenues-neighborhood/
     
  2. Jan

    Jan New Member

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    The man shouldn't have attacked the policeman with a shovel but I'm not sure that the policeman needed deadly force to stop the man. It's hard to believe that the officer couldn't have disarmed the man without killing him. More detail needs to be told to know if the shooting was justified.
     
  3. liljim

    liljim Former Member

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    if, as the story states, the man swung the shovel at the cop and there are witnesses then it is legally justified.

    the story does say he actually connected and hit the officer so it would seem at this time that its most likely a reasonable use of force.

    one thing that stands out - in the live shots from the scene there is barely any snow anywhere, a few yards seem to have the tiniest bit but all the roads, driveways, sidewalks seem bare...
     
  4. MsFacetious

    MsFacetious What a Kerfuffle...

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    Yes it's been very warm today and much of the snow has melted.
    That is why someone called the police... offering to shovel a sidewalk without snow is suspicious.
    However a snow shovel isn't that heavy. It's not like a regular shovel.
    You'd have a hard time doing serious damage with one.
    I do wonder why a taser wasn't used... maybe the body camera and witnesses will give us that information?
     
  5. TrackerSam

    TrackerSam New Member

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    It occured to me that shoveling snow was a ruse to be in the neighborhood (lurking) as a thief or sexual predator might and perhaps he recognised the officer from prior run-ins, or he thought the officer recognised him. Why else would he hit the officer?
     
  6. nothingnew

    nothingnew Active Member

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    Thank God.
     
  7. MsFacetious

    MsFacetious What a Kerfuffle...

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    I would think if he had an extensive criminal record that would be mentioned.
    It's generally the first thing they include when they ID the suspect. :twocents:

    http://www.ksl.com/?sid=33032628&ni...r-involved-shooting-in-avenues&s_cid=queue-20

    Salt Lake Police Sgt. Robin Heiden said James Dudley Barker, 42, of Salt Lake City, was going door-to-door offering to shovel walkways for residents, and one resident called police. When the officer approached Barker, he immediately hit him with a shovel, Heiden said.

    "Immediately there was an altercation between the two. The officer was attacked with the shovel and returned fire and killed (Barker)," Heiden said.

    The confrontation played out "within seconds," she said.
     
  8. al66pine

    al66pine New Member

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    bbm1
    True, attacker swinging shovel one time, say at shins, may not cause permanent serious damage, but shovel blow ---
    ---to LEO's head could result unconsciousness, even if just for 5-10 sec.
    ---to head or elsewhere could drop LEO to concrete, knock him unconscious.
    ---anywhere could distract LEO w pain reaction for several seconds.
    Any of the above could allow attacker to take LEO's gun, a serious risk, imo, even if injury does not cause LEO death or life-long disability.
    And that is premised on attacker landing only one blow. Multiple blows w 10 lbs could cause death or life-long disability, imo.*

    bbm2
    I also hope body camera footage and witnesses will be enlightening.

    Sad all the way around. JM2cts.


    * Per Amazon, snow shovels (other than emergency, folding type) may be as light as 5 lbs, but many are 10-12 lbs, even w poly/plastic blade.
     
  9. MsFacetious

    MsFacetious What a Kerfuffle...

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    It appears he was hit in the arm according to the witnesses, for what it's worth. :twocents:
     
  10. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    If someone starts swinging a shovel at an officer trying to assault him imo, the cop has every right to shoot. That can become a fatal attack very quickly. Why should an officer take that chance? Sure, MAYBE he could have disarmed the perp with a tazer or with his brute strength, but then again, MAYBE NOT. Why should he put his own life and well being on the line, over a perp who attacks unprovoked. Sorry for the guy who was killed, but if u attack a cop with a shovel, be prepared to be shot. I have no problem with that. JMO
     
  11. MsFacetious

    MsFacetious What a Kerfuffle...

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    My concern with the shooting is the area.
    I know you guys are not from here but I used to live right down the street.
    If I still lived there I would be very upset that this cop used a gun instead of a taser.
    I would be concerned that one of my family members could have been hit.
    Especially if I lived in the house that they were standing in front.

    My concern is the other people that may have been hit by a bullet.
    In this case I think that he should have used the taser first, in order to avoid hitting other people.
    I'm not saying he shouldn't have shot, just saying maybe this area would have been better to start with a taser. :twocents:
     
  12. al66pine

    al66pine New Member

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    Thanks for noting that, MsF.
    Getting hit in the arm w shovel could still distract LEO, imo, and allow attacker to take LEO's gun away.
    From 2nd link, "...he hit an officer several times with a shovel, police said.' bbm
    "Police later stated that the officer involved is recovering from multiple fractured bones
    ."
    In vid at 2nd link, reporter said (paraphrasing) the woman who called 911 said LE told her
    altercation began on the front porch and moved to the yard.
    ^
    Ok, triple hearsay^. But looks like, maybe, fighting while on concrete stairs? Ouch.
    Again, hope vid & witnesses can clarify further.
    Hoping that this shooting did not endanger anyone else in neighborhood.

    From MsF's later post:
    "If I still lived there I would be very upset that this cop used a gun instead of a taser."
    Personally, if I lived there I would be very upset that, apparently unprovoked, this dude hit LEO w a shovel."
    Sad to see violence in area where we live, used to live, or anywhere.

    JM2cts.
     
  13. MsFacetious

    MsFacetious What a Kerfuffle...

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    So he went from "possible minor injuries" to "several fractured bones."
    WTF? I am officially confused.
     
  14. Woodland

    Woodland Well-Known Member

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    Very confusing reports so far - imo, better to wait for the situation to calm down and see what reports are at that time. Jmo.

    Why did the cop need to get close enough to be hit with a shovel or any other weapon? Don't get the training or thinking there. Fwiw, also don't get why this guy needed to swing a shovel at the cop, if in fact he did. Multiple fractures sustained by the cop will be substantiated or discounted down the road.

    The attack in Freeport (Maine?) was handled perfectly imo - waiting to see if all Chief's of Police will follow his example. Or not. My interest is will this violence against LE spill over to Canada - we have the same problems of 'LE self indulgence' fwiw. Not working here either. Jmo.
     
  15. MsFacetious

    MsFacetious What a Kerfuffle...

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    The body camera recorded the initial confrontation between the officer and James Dudley Barker, 42, but it stopped recording after it was damaged during the confrontation, said Salt Lake police detective Dennis McGowan.

    -------------------------

    The officer was hit by the shovel "several" times, police said, and suffered fractured bones in an arm and foot.

    --------------------------

    “I don’t know everything, but I do know James," said Ron Lee, a neighbor who lives a few doors away.

    Lee said he and Barker had lunch at the Avenues Bistro on Third Avenue earlier in the week.

    “He looked as good as I’ve ever seen him," he said.

    Lee said Barker lived in his home on Third Avenue and I Street for 10 years and was outside regularly.
    He described him as a “kind” and “normal guy" who had shown “absolutely no aggressiveness" during the years he had known him.

    Lee recalled a time when two trees were cut down in Barker’s yard, and Barker was hesitant for the stump to be removed because he wanted to create something from it.

    “Instead of just … cutting it down, (he said), 'Can’t we make something beautiful?'" Lee said, describing his friend’s attitude.

    http://www.ksl.com/?sid=33042457&nid=960&fm=home_page&s_cid=toppick3

    I think we may be looking at mental illness here.
    Mostly treated... but occasionally going untreated and that's when he has interactions with police. :twocents:
     
  16. Woodland

    Woodland Well-Known Member

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    LE maiming/killing those with a mental illness is part of the long term problem and current retaliation, imo.

    Needs to stop. If I chose to confront someone with a shovel, I would not get close enough to get hit with it. I'm not a trained officer but do possess common sense.
     
  17. wendybtn

    wendybtn Well-Known Member

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    Good for the officer!
     
  18. al66pine

    al66pine New Member

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    http://www.ksl.com/?sid=33042457&nid=960&fm=home_page&s_cid=toppick3 dtd today, article & 3 min vid.
    Raw vid from LEO body (audio starts ~ 20sec. in)
    starts w LEO parking car and approaching porch, where man stands w shovel, then interaction
    until man pulls shovel back, swings it at LEO and nails him. Ccam goes wild for a few sec, then aud & vid stop.
    Looks like, imo, LEO got knocked down to concrete porch floor, or went flying azz-over-teakettle down those concrete steps, or both.

    Did "cop need to get close enough to be hit with a shovel or any other weapon?" IDK.
    Should LEO have stopped at curb or sidewalk, forcing communication by yelling at each other? IDK
    What does training instruct? IDK
    I wonder if there's more vid from area homes or if neighbors saw and can describe aftermath.

    Sad all the way around. JM2cts.
     
  19. MsFacetious

    MsFacetious What a Kerfuffle...

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    There isn't any video from area homes. I can already tell you that.
    This isn't an area that has videos on their houses.
    If there is it will be a motion activated one that doesn't record. :twocents:

    http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=330...-avenues-shooting&fm=home_page&s_cid=topstory

    Less than three minutes after he was approached by a Salt Lake police officer, James Dudley Barker began to scream.

    "I'm trying to make a living," Barker is seen yelling in footage captured by the officer's body camera Thursday afternoon. "I'm doing my business!"

    Barker, 42, refused to give his name or the name of the business he says he has a license for as the officer explains he is responding to calls from neighbors.

    "You're suspicious in the neighborhood. People are calling in on you. … I didn't stop you for no reason," the officer says before radioing for assistance.

    Barker is seen stepping back from the officer and cries, "You can't get in my face, man!" He then swings the snow shovel he is holding.

    The video shows the sky as the officer presumably tumbles from the porch. The footage ends a second later as the blue shovel lands a second blow, breaking the camera.

    The moment that followed seconds later, when Barker was shot and killed by the unidentified officer, was not recorded.
     
  20. al66pine

    al66pine New Member

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    sbm

    Thx, Ms F for input about (no) home surv cams.
    Looks like story was updated from when I read it a couple hours ago. Gonna go see if it has new vid.
     

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