Found Deceased UT - MacKenzie "Kenzie" Lueck, 23, Salt Lake City, 17 June 2019 #15 *ARREST*

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MsBetsy

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In the last thread I had mentioned that a few things give me pause when considering if this was indeed a premeditated act.

@Mentalheadslap2018 , you had said you were curious as to my thoughts on this.

Well, we all know that there are some very very dumb criminals out there. Jay Leno even had a whole spiel about this on his show. (“What do we all love? Stupid criminals!”) We’ve certainly seen our share of them here.

What gives me some pause though, is again his phone—texting with her at the airport, allowing for his phone to show his location at the park a minute within her phone, burning stuff on his property...it just seems soooooo stupid if he had had indeed put a lot of thought into it. I don’t know how he could have overlooked this (location data, etc), especially with his at least basic computer skills.

I do tend to think he had sinister plans from the get-get go, but then how could he be that stupid? It just doesn’t seem like he did a lot to cover his tracks if he had planned this out. Moo.

Idk...
Well, it could just be that he is that stupid.

He was careful not to be seen at the airport picking her up, and made sure he met her at a secluded location instead of his own address. I'm guessing he never got out of the car when she was dropped off. I suppose it's possible that he just didn't want her to find out where he lived, especially if he was pretending to be someone else on-line.

He must have done something to make sure he had no boarders at that time too. Wasn't the house listed as being all filled up for the month?

I don't know what the deal was with his phone. Maybe he had deleted the messages thinking LE could not retrieve them? Or maybe he just figured he could talk his way out of it.
Imo
 

BeachSky

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In the last thread I had mentioned that a few things give me pause when considering if this was indeed a premeditated act.

@Mentalheadslap2018 , you had said you were curious as to my thoughts on this.

Well, we all know that there are some very very dumb criminals out there. Jay Leno even had a whole spiel about this on his show. (“What do we all love? Stupid criminals!”) We’ve certainly seen our share of them here.

What gives me some pause though, is again his phone—texting with her at the airport, allowing for his phone to show his location at the park a minute within her phone, burning stuff on his property...it just seems soooooo stupid if he had had indeed put a lot of thought into it. I don’t know how he could have overlooked this (location data, etc), especially with his at least basic computer skills.

I do tend to think he had sinister plans from the get-get go, but then how could he be that stupid? It just doesn’t seem like he did a lot to cover his tracks if he had planned this out. Moo.

Idk...

Dude also thought he was a model....
 

rmax

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Apologies if this has been posted, but Id have to think the body was in rough shape. If I remember correctly during the PC the Chief said he spoke with ML Father on Friday (today), but found Wednesday.

That would mean the remains were not identifiable immediately (IMO) and they needed to confirm DNA. My first thought would be as others have stated, that AA tried to cremate the body but failed. They then recovered the remainder. Im sure decomposition had a factor being it nearly 3 weeks as well.

I just hope the family can get past the condition of what remains and somehow get some level of closure.
 

Bits777

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I think AA is very impulsive wants whatever his sick mind wants and focuses on attaining it- I see him as unable to look too far into the future in terms of plans- I feel he had a sick expectation of gaining something from her and that part he made sure not to pick her up, have her take Lyft and meet in the park and disable her phone but then when that didn't go as he wanted it to he just acted in the moment and continued that way without any thought or planning- it seems that after his disabling of her phone he had no concrete plan to try to cover his tracks- very very sick and disturbed individual who does not think or operate in any logical fashion.
 

trujac

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Well, it could just be that he is that stupid.

He was careful not to be seen at the airport picking her up, and made sure he met her at a secluded location instead of his own address. I'm guessing he never got out of the car when she was dropped off. I suppose it's possible that he just didn't want her to find out where he lived, especially if he was pretending to be someone else on-line.

He must have done something to make sure he had no boarders at that time too. Wasn't the house listed as being all filled up for the month?

I don't know what the deal was with his phone. Maybe he had deleted the messages thinking LE could not retrieve them? Or maybe he just figured he could talk his way out of it.
Imo
I really don't think ML would have agreed to meet a complete stranger (other than just conversing with them over the internet) at a park at 3am...I think it is possible they both discussed not having the lyft driver drop her off at her house, as well as not taking her to his residence--as a precautionary issue...he might have offered to pick her up at the park and drop her off at her place--perhaps, she thought they were going to go and have an early breakfast somewhere together? Some will find the breakfast idea off the wall...I know a lot of folks here think he came to the park with the intent to murder ML--possibly subduing her right away, since her phone was turned off immediately after she got in his vehicle; however, it is possible that her phone was tied to her parents and all her friends (find my phone, contacts, friends, etc with a location app) and she wanted time out from being potentially tracked. The meeting at the park at 3am is the big question mark in my mind--for some reason, I think she went there with the idea that there were going to do a normal activity together...and he was simply going to drive her the rest of the way home when they were finished.
 

Mentalheadslap2018

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I really don't think ML would have agreed to meet a complete stranger (other than just conversing with them over the internet) at a park at 3am...I think it is possible they both discussed not having the lyft driver drop her off at her house, as well as not taking her to his residence--as a precautionary issue...he might have offered to pick her up at the park and drop her off at her place--perhaps, she thought they were going to go and have an early breakfast somewhere together? Some will find the breakfast idea off the wall...I know a lot of folks here think he came to the park with the intent to murder ML--possibly subduing her right away, since her phone was turned off immediately after she got in his vehicle; however, it is possible that her phone was tied to her parents and all her friends (find my phone, contacts, friends, etc with a location app) and she wanted time out from being potentially tracked. The meeting at the park at 3am is the big question mark in my mind--for some reason, I think she went there with the idea that there were going to do a normal activity together...and he was simply going to drive her the rest of the way home when they were finished.

Very interesting! What specifically is meant by a 'precautionary measure'? TIA.
 

dreamwarrior66

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Well, it could just be that he is that stupid.

He was careful not to be seen at the airport picking her up, and made sure he met her at a secluded location instead of his own address. I'm guessing he never got out of the car when she was dropped off. I suppose it's possible that he just didn't want her to find out where he lived, especially if he was pretending to be someone else on-line.

He must have done something to make sure he had no boarders at that time too. Wasn't the house listed as being all filled up for the month?

I don't know what the deal was with his phone. Maybe he had deleted the messages thinking LE could not retrieve them? Or maybe he just figured he could talk his way out of it.
Imo
He was a BDSM novice. He wasn't even on the right app to find that kind of thing. Most sugar babies would not be into that. I think she either wanted to stop at some point which made him become more aggressive, or they were playing a dangerous game that involved suffocation which went awry. If he wanted to find someone to kill, she wasn't a good choice. a college girl, pretty, with a family looking for her, i mean it was a 100% chance this would get national attention. i considered maybe he thought she was nothing but a prostitute/runaway so maybe nobody would miss her, but i don't think she would've given off that kind of vibe.
 

GordianKnot

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The meeting at the park at 3am is the big question mark in my mind--for some reason, I think she went there with the idea that there were going to do a normal activity together...and he was simply going to drive her the rest of the way home when they were finished.
RSABBM:
To the bolded portion of your post: I agree with this.

The most likely explanation for ML having the Lyft driver take her to meet AA in the parking lot is that AA had told her that he'd take her home after they'd done whatever it is they were meeting to do at 3 am.

JMO.
 

Boxer

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ethereal*22

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I really don't think ML would have agreed to meet a complete stranger (other than just conversing with them over the internet) at a park at 3am...I think it is possible they both discussed not having the lyft driver drop her off at her house, as well as not taking her to his residence--as a precautionary issue...he might have offered to pick her up at the park and drop her off at her place--perhaps, she thought they were going to go and have an early breakfast somewhere together? Some will find the breakfast idea off the wall...I know a lot of folks here think he came to the park with the intent to murder ML--possibly subduing her right away, since her phone was turned off immediately after she got in his vehicle; however, it is possible that her phone was tied to her parents and all her friends (find my phone, contacts, friends, etc with a location app) and she wanted time out from being potentially tracked. The meeting at the park at 3am is the big question mark in my mind--for some reason, I think she went there with the idea that there were going to do a normal activity together...and he was simply going to drive her the rest of the way home when they were finished.

Keep going with this...I also believe they knew each other and this was not the first meeting. I have been theorizing the possibility that the visibly shaken man who spoke to the media woman is NOT the only friend/family of Kenzie’s who may have been aware of her “friendship” with AA and warned her against him, vehemently. He’s just the only one we are aware of, thus far, as everyone’s gone silent, and yes I know a couple of her sorority sisters said they didn’t know him, but this still leaves the door open to many in her life. So she’s secretly meeting with AA, and he likes that because he doesn’t want a trail- he encourages the secrecy - it helps him people not knowing they are together- and it helps him to have her willingly turn her phone off when with him-

Does anyone know if she had an iPhone? And if she had an agreement with her parents that she had to have find a person on with them? My boyfriend had that agreement with his college/high school age daughter with her iPhone- he could look up at anytime to get GPS on her! Is this why LE originally asked ML if she wanted to be left alone in plea to her on tv....? Did ML tell AA her parents tracked her?

Bottom line- I’m fearful others knew of his presence in her world and were concerned. Her actions that night seem like sneaking around- sadly, trying to not get caught at something- in a perfect world it can be a fun thing to do on a summer night—-ML did not meet a stranger in the park at 3 am - moo-
 

margarita25

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Very often in cases, we hear that the “burned body” has been found.

They declined to include that adjective. Yet they included “charred” re: the initial remains found.

I’m really not sure if her entire body was burned or not, and my immediate thoughts went to Jessica Ridgeway and partial body found/dismemberment, as I initially mentioned.

I think it’s likely of course that he tried to burn her body fully and it didn’t work.

I’m just noting that they specifically did not say this, contrary to other cases.

I wonder if it is the case that her entire body was in fact burned, why they would hold this back. Simply to protect the public from the graphic and “sensitive nature”, or is there something else to this?
 

Criminal Justice mom

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Very often in cases, we hear that the “burned body” has been found.

They declined to include that adjective. Yet they included “charred” re: the initial remains found.

I’m really not sure if her entire body was burned or not, and my immediate thoughts went to Jessica Ridgeway and partial body found/dismemberment, as I initially mentioned.

I think it’s likely of course that he tried to burn her body fully and it didn’t work.

I’m just noting that they specifically did not say this, contrary to other cases.

I wonder if it is the case that her entire body was in fact burned, why they would hold this back. Simply to protect the public from the graphic and “sensitive nature”, or is there something else to this?

Like what else do you think it could be?
 

margarita25

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WARNING VERY GRAPHIC:

Like what else do you think it could be?

Partial torso perhaps, moo. Head and hands removed.

Again, I think the possibility of him trying to burn her completely but was unsuccessful is also a strong option, as mentioned by many members here.

It’s amazing though how many perps still think dismemberment will conceal their victim’s identity. We still see dismemberment cases here even in this age of DNA identification.

LE spent a lot of time in the garage, as noted by @oviedo, iirc. When I think of “garage” I think of “tools”, but again gasoline could have been stored there as well likely, in addition to other “fire tools” and who knows what else.

I’m biased because of Jessica’s case and my personal connection to that, but I strongly suspect dismemberment now. When they found her torso they did not describe it as that; they said they found her body. Only later we learned her head and hands were in his crawl space.

ARS’, Jessica’s murderer, worked in a morgue setting at one time. I haven’t seen anything yet here to indicate that AA had any kind of similar experience, or medical experience, etc, but one doesn’t necessarily need this to dismember someone.

—-

ETA:

I also wonder if they sent divers in just to cover all their bases as SP, see what additional evidence they might be recover, and/or if they are looking for something specific.
 
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MassGuy

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WARNING VERY GRAPHIC:



Partial torso perhaps, moo. Head and hands removed.

Again, I think the possibility of him trying to burn her completely but was unsuccessful is also a strong option, as mentioned by many members here.

It’s amazing though how many perps still think dismemberment will hide their victim’s identity. We still see dismemberment cases here even in this age of DNA identification.

LE spent a lot of time in the garage, as noted by @oviedo, iirc. When I think of “garage” I think of “tools”, but again gasoline could have been stored there as well likely, in addition to other “fire tools” and who knows what else.

I’m biased because of Jessica’s case and my personal connection to that, but I strongly suspect dismemberment now.

ARS’, Jessica’s murderer, worked in a morgue setting at one time. I haven’t seen anything yet here to indicate that AA had any kind of similar experience, or medical experience, etc, but one doesn’t necessarily need this to dismember someone.

IF he dismembered her, it would have been to dispose of her without discovery.

She would burn easier.

In the end, it doesn’t really matter. The fact that he burned her, elevates the crime to “aggravated.”

It doesn’t change anything. He “chewed his food before he ate it.”

Psychopaths don’t care.
 

kkdj

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WARNING VERY GRAPHIC:



Partial torso perhaps, moo. Head and hands removed.

Again, I think the possibility of him trying to burn her completely but was unsuccessful is also a strong option, as mentioned by many members here.

It’s amazing though how many perps still think dismemberment will conceal their victim’s identity. We still see dismemberment cases here even in this age of DNA identification.

LE spent a lot of time in the garage, as noted by @oviedo, iirc. When I think of “garage” I think of “tools”, but again gasoline could have been stored there as well likely, in addition to other “fire tools” and who knows what else.

I’m biased because of Jessica’s case and my personal connection to that, but I strongly suspect dismemberment now. When they found her torso they did not describe it as that; they said they found her body. Only later we learned her head and hands were in his crawl space.

ARS’, Jessica’s murderer, worked in a morgue setting at one time. I haven’t seen anything yet here to indicate that AA had any kind of similar experience, or medical experience, etc, but one doesn’t necessarily need this to dismember someone.

—-

ETA:

I also wonder if they sent divers in just to cover all their bases as SP, see what additional evidence they might be recover, and/or if they are looking for something specific.

BBM
My thoughts exactly.
 

margarita25

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Warning Graphic:

IF he dismembered her, it would have been to dispose of her without discovery.

She would burn easier.

In the end, it doesn’t really matter. The fact that he burned her, elevates the crime to “aggravated.”

It doesn’t change anything. He “chewed his food before he ate it.”

Psychopaths don’t care.

There is of course additionally the factor of dismemberment for easier burning, so to speak, which I was just actually going to add to my above post; however I’m still not sure if the “body” they found in the canyon was in fact burned. It very well could have been though, but we don’t know for sure.

Of course it doesn’t change anything, but it certainly is relevant to the investigation as far as identifying COD, etc. And again, we want every piece of the puzzle.

Whether or not she was dismembered is important also, because if she was, then there might be additional forensic evidence for the prosecution (for example, tissue in the drains, blood evidence, etc).
 
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