Found Alive UT - Madelyn Allen, 19, seen leaving Snow College dorm, Ephraim, 13 Dec 2021

New Posts

I

iamnotagolem

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Messages
5,473
Reaction score
13,862
evilwise said:
Because she says so! Why would she lie? Not like if she had been into it she'd be in big, big trouble with her family and her church. They're surrounding her to help her heal and thrive!
Click to expand...
If she was a willing participant then she’d have every reason to pretend she wasn’t when she was rescued. Her family and church would shun her if she’d done this willingly.

I’m not saying she consented to anything, I tend to think she was very naive and things went awry.
 
T

TruthIsStranger

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2017
Messages
385
Reaction score
3,060
I wonder if she was catfished with the photo of a handsome young man and he said, "my dad will pick you up." I think she may have secretly read or watched the highly idealized 50 Shades of Gray series and thought that would be "fun". She seems very naive and sheltered, but that series was one of the few "naughty" yet mainstream things that one might get one's hands on, even in a protected environment. I can remember similar books in my adolescence.

It's hard to imagine that she had that dude in mind when arranging this meeting. However, the supposed hiding from police is odd. Maybe it was a reflex to being seen nude by any stranger, kwim? I can see how that might happen.

Still, this is such an unusual situation and case--I don't think I've ever come across a case this improbable -- seemingly sheltered Mormon girl with sweet, conventional, Get to Know Me videos on YouTube; the Quora posts; the departure with barely anything in hand; no sense of the danger she was going into; the rescue, etc.

Not in a million years would anyone taking a snapshot of her life expect something like this. It goes to show that you have NO IDEA who other people really are deep down--not that there's anything wrong with these fantasies--but going real life IS dangerous. Mind blown.

Hope she'll be okay, but from what I know of Mormon religion and culture (and other religions, too, of course,) she may be helped and supported now, but will she eventually be quietly ostracized due to the unusual details of this case? Will she have a hard time finding a mate? Will there be whispers about what happened for the rest of her life? I feel that things will be very hard socially as well as emotionally.
 
T

TruthIsStranger

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2017
Messages
385
Reaction score
3,060
evilwise said:
Because she says so! Why would she lie? Not like if she had been into it she'd be in big, big trouble with her family and her church. They're surrounding her to help her heal and thrive!
Click to expand...
I think this case shows that people are VERY complex and we have no idea what their intentions, thoughts, or feelings are deep down. I'm sure this didn't work out the way she imagined, but it's obvious from the video that she left of her own accord.
 
B

Beans

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2020
Messages
558
Reaction score
5,966
iamnotagolem said:
If she was a willing participant then she’d have every reason to pretend she wasn’t when she was rescued. Her family and church would shun her if she’d done this willingly.

I’m not saying she consented to anything, I tend to think she was very naive and things went awry.
Click to expand...

I think the fantasy of the situation and actual reality proved to be very different. I find it much easier to believe that she quickly no longer consented to any of it than believe she consented then pretended she hadn’t. She’s a young and naive girl.

I blame *advertiser censored* tbh. For giving a false idea about this type of relationship to young girls like her, and for giving men the idea that young girls would probably be into it.
 
L

Lusitana

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
3,415
Reaction score
33,099
It doesn't matter. From the point she said "no" it's rape. It doesn't matter if she agreed to the "date", if she got into the car with him, if she consented at first to doing certain things and then, said "no I don't want this anymore", then it's rape and abuse.

A decent human being would've just said "okay, that's fine" and call her a uber. That's not what happened, she was missing for days, raped, abused.
 
sans_soleil

sans_soleil

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
118
Reaction score
1,050
Lusitana said:
It doesn't matter. From the point she said "no" it's rape. It doesn't matter if she agreed to the "date", if she got into the car with him, if she consented at first to doing certain things and then, said "no I don't want this anymore", then it's rape and abuse.

A decent human being would've just said "okay, that's fine" and call her a uber. That's not what happened, she was missing for days, raped, abused.
Click to expand...


Yes yes hundred times yes. It is completely valid, fair and common to revoke consent at some point or to consent to one thing but not another, what isn't fair is to victim blame. Speaking generally not about this case in particular even.
 
evilwise

evilwise

Unknown Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2020
Messages
2,390
Reaction score
16,773
Lusitana said:
It doesn't matter. From the point she said "no" it's rape. It doesn't matter if she agreed to the "date", if she got into the car with him, if she consented at first to doing certain things and then, said "no I don't want this anymore", then it's rape and abuse.

A decent human being would've just said "okay, that's fine" and call her a uber. That's not what happened, she was missing for days, raped, abused.
Click to expand...
I agree, if she ever said no. That's the thing. Consent cannot be withdrawn retroactively and there is evidence from both before (the Quora post) and after (hiding from law enforcement) that casts a reasonable doubt.
 
L

Lusitana

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
3,415
Reaction score
33,099
evilwise said:
I agree, if she ever said no. That's the thing. Consent cannot be withdrawn retroactively and there is evidence from both before (the Quora post) and after (hiding from law enforcement) that casts a reasonable doubt.
Click to expand...
What about the Quora post? You can text someone saying "yes, I want to have sex tonight and I want you to do this and this" and when the time actually comes you can change your mind and say "actually, I don't want to do any of that anymore". Rape is rape. I'm not going to doubt she was brutalized, forensic evidence seems to prove that she was. She is from a very Religious community, this is extra hard for her.
 
cocomod

cocomod

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2011
Messages
5,393
Reaction score
13,150
evilwise said:
I agree, if she ever said no. That's the thing. Consent cannot be withdrawn retroactively and there is evidence from both before (the Quora post) and after (hiding from law enforcement) that casts a reasonable doubt.
Click to expand...

I don't think hiding from law is evidence against her necessarily. She was naked. She was scared. She was probably threatened. We don't know!
 
WingsOverTX

WingsOverTX

Former Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2022
Messages
2,974
Reaction score
25,807
Not finding an update on the 6th District court case in LOA - Case # 211600020 (posted above)

IANAL & do not have access to the court records online, which appear to be fee-based only.

Any WS attorneys who might help research what charges he faces in these cases and potential sentences if convicted?

@gitana1
@Kristin Esq.
 
Kristin Esq.

Kristin Esq.

Verified Attorney
Joined
Sep 13, 2021
Messages
2,104
Reaction score
17,830
WingsOverTX said:
Not finding an update on the 6th District court case in LOA - Case # 211600020 (posted above)

IANAL & do not have access to the court records online, which appear to be fee-based only.

Any WS attorneys who might help research what charges he faces in these cases and potential sentences if convicted?

@gitana1
@Kristin Esq.
Click to expand...

According to this article, Missing Utah college student Madelyn Allen found alive, 'covered in coal' in suspect's basement - he was charged with obstruction of justice, aggravated kidnapping, rape and object rape. However, this article is from December so I don't know if the charges are the same as the initial charges.

Obstruction of Justice:
  • Obstructing justice is either a third degree felony or second degree felony, depending on the circumstances. In Utah, a third degree felony may carry the possible prison sentence of 0-5 years, while a second degree felony can send you to prison for 1-15 years. (www.saltlakecriminaldefense.com/2013/03/obstructing-justice-in-utah/)
Aggravated Kidnapping:

Aggravated kidnapping is a first degree felony, like rape and murder.
The criminal penalties for a first degree felony are devastating. If convicted, the defendant may be fined as much as $10,000, and in addition, may also be sentenced to:

  • 15 years to life in prison
  • Life in prison without the possibility of parole (release)
The nature and length of the sentence depends on the circumstances of the offense, and the reasons the offense was committed. (Utah Aggravated Kidnapping (Code 76-5-302) Defense Attorneys)

Object Rape:

UTAH PENALTIES FOR OBJECT RAPE.​

(1). Five years mandatory minimum, up to life in prison for object rape.
(2). Fifteen years mandatory minimum, up to life in prison if the jury finds that during the commission of the object rape, you caused serious bodily injury.
(3). Life without parole if you have previously been convicted of a “grievous sexual crime.” (Charged with Object Rape in Utah? Free Consultation | Jake Gunter)

Rape:
  • Rape is a first degree felony punished by 5 years to life, but is upgraded to 15 to life if the actor caused serious bodily injury, or was under 18 and has prior sex crime convictions. The offense is upgraded to life without parole if the actor has a prior record of serious sex crime. (What are the Jail Times and Sentencing Guidelines for Rape in Utah?)
 
WingsOverTX

WingsOverTX

Former Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2022
Messages
2,974
Reaction score
25,807
Kristin Esq. said:
According to this article, Missing Utah college student Madelyn Allen found alive, 'covered in coal' in suspect's basement - he was charged with obstruction of justice, aggravated kidnapping, rape and object rape. However, this article is from December so I don't know if the charges are the same as the initial charges.

Obstruction of Justice:
  • Obstructing justice is either a third degree felony or second degree felony, depending on the circumstances. In Utah, a third degree felony may carry the possible prison sentence of 0-5 years, while a second degree felony can send you to prison for 1-15 years. (www.saltlakecriminaldefense.com/2013/03/obstructing-justice-in-utah/)
Aggravated Kidnapping:

Aggravated kidnapping is a first degree felony, like rape and murder.
The criminal penalties for a first degree felony are devastating. If convicted, the defendant may be fined as much as $10,000, and in addition, may also be sentenced to:

  • 15 years to life in prison
  • Life in prison without the possibility of parole (release)
The nature and length of the sentence depends on the circumstances of the offense, and the reasons the offense was committed. (Utah Aggravated Kidnapping (Code 76-5-302) Defense Attorneys)

Object Rape:

UTAH PENALTIES FOR OBJECT RAPE.​

(1). Five years mandatory minimum, up to life in prison for object rape.
(2). Fifteen years mandatory minimum, up to life in prison if the jury finds that during the commission of the object rape, you caused serious bodily injury.
(3). Life without parole if you have previously been convicted of a “grievous sexual crime.” (Charged with Object Rape in Utah? Free Consultation | Jake Gunter)

Rape:
  • Rape is a first degree felony punished by 5 years to life, but is upgraded to 15 to life if the actor caused serious bodily injury, or was under 18 and has prior sex crime convictions. The offense is upgraded to life without parole if the actor has a prior record of serious sex crime. (What are the Jail Times and Sentencing Guidelines for Rape in Utah?)
Click to expand...
Thanks so much @Kristin Esq.

It's odd that media coverage has apparently ceased. I would think there would be strong public interest in justice for this victim. I'm also curious if use of social media to lure the victim could carry any charges.

Perhaps the lack of media coverage is related to journalistic ethics/preferences of the victim, as discussed in this article?

www.deseret.com

VICTIMS, MEDIA STILL CONFUSED AND AMBIVALENT ABOUT PRINTING OF NAMES

A week ago the Salt Lake Tribune used an Associated Press story about a Utah National Guard sergeant who reported she was raped in the tent of her Saudi airman boyfriend by one of his friends during Desert Storm.<br> AP says the woman gave permission to be identified, and the story did so by…
www.deseret.com www.deseret.com

JMO
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top