VA- 6-YEAR-OLD is in custody after shooting teacher

[fred&edna]

I think in the simplest terms, he knows that shooting a gun makes a bad guy go away and I think in the moment he saw the teacher as a bad guy.

I think he likely knows what death is but didnt have a strong connection between shooting and death.

I think he felt he needed to defend himself from SOMETHING, and in the moment, the teacher became a bad guy so the kid shot like all heroes in the zeitgeist do.

Again, I think the kid is a victim. But I also think it was done with some intention.

Where that intention came from and why, is a HUGE question

This began before he arrived at school... beyond "in the moment".

I don't think a 6 year old fully understands what it means to take another human life.

Thank you for replying to my question.

 

[Lilibet]

How about hiring new people and changing policies?

Violent kids take over schools and have the law on their side

The same laws that protect disabled students make it difficult for schools to remove a student as profoundly disturbed as the Parkland school shooter. Even threatening to shoot classmates is not a lawful reason to expel the child, our investigation found.

projects.sun-sentinel.com

I wish it were that simple!

The link is part 2 of an excellent series about classroom violence in Florida (but increasingly true nationwide). The policies have to change at the state and national level. The school districts have to obey these increasingly convoluted methods for permanently removing a violent child from school to receive specialized education and treatment. Mainstreaming children with disabilities to spend part of the day in a regular classroom is a noble and successful idea dating back to the 1970’s and ‘80’s. But increasing numbers of children with severe psychological disabilities has resulted in mainstreaming gone mad IMO. Sadly, it is not a simple fix.

 

[Hexe]

Didnt he point the gun at the teacher and pull the trigger with purpose?

He aimed at the teacher and pulled a trigger. It was no accident.

 

[Simply Southern]

Unbelievable, 2 years, 500k over 12 months. Plus paid contractual hour to assist with transition.
Moo.., I'm not expecting this school system to change. IMO, it would take a complete overhaul, clean house and start over.

Newport News School Board ousts superintendent

The board voted 5-1 to remove Dr. George Parker III, effective February 1. Board member Gary Hunter was the lone vote against removal.

www.13newsnow.com

According to the separation and severance agreement, he will get two years' salary paid over 12 months. 13News Now obtained a copy of Parker's employment contract, which stated his current salary of more than $250,000.
On top of severance pay, the agreement goes on to say, "If the Board requests the Superintendent's assistance in transitioning his duties to his successor, or for other purposes, after the Termination Date, it will compensate him at his hourly rate at the time of his termination."

 

[MissMalowe]

One interesting thing about IEPs (Individualized Education Plans) I learned several years ago is that even if a student has been recommended for an IEP, the parents have the option of refusing it.

Wondering if that may have been the case in this situation...if the parents refused it (speculation only), they may have offered to accompany their child to school each day -- in lieu of agreeing to an IEP.

Also -- as @Simply Southern has mentioned, those with Masters degrees in Special Education or Behavioral Psychology are in high demand across the country. Even here (Midwest), school districts throughout the area are offering bonuses to licensed teachers with advanced degrees, as well as offering higher per diem wages to substitute teachers with educational backgrounds in mental health and/or prior educational experience in behavioral interventions.

My knowledge of IEPs in general, is limited. If a child was having a parent accompany them to school all day on a daily basis, wouldn't an IEP be needed in order for that to even occur/be approved?

Am wondering what was going on that day/ week that caused the parent to not accompany him that particular day at school if they had always been doing so previously. If it was a planned change, or if it was abrupt?

Also wondering why he arrived late to school that day. Something totally coincidental like a planned appt, car troubles or waking up late or was there some sort of struggle or argument or issue about attending school that day, unaccompanied or otherwise.

*edited to clarify the part about child being accompanied to classes daily by a parent

 

[YepperBepper]

I think in the simplest terms, he knows that shooting a gun makes a bad guy go away and I think in the moment he saw the teacher as a bad guy.

I think he likely knows what death is but didnt have a strong connection between shooting and death.

I think he felt he needed to defend himself from SOMETHING, and in the moment, the teacher became a bad guy so the kid shot like all heroes in the zeitgeist do.

Again, I think the kid is a victim. But I also think it was done with some intention.

Where that intention came from and why, is a HUGE question

Absolutely agree. It's difficult to separate myself from my adult and unimpaired (well...maybe) understanding of guns and death, and place myself back in my 6 year old self...and not only a standard 6 year old, but a 6 year old who likely has mental or emotional disorders. Imho

Supportive adults, persistent mental health help, etc

A supportive administration could have changed the outcome, here. Imho

My knowledge of IEPs in general, is limited. If a child was having a parent accompany them to school all day on a daily basis, wouldn't an IEP be needed in order for that to even occur/be approved?

Am wondering what was going on that day/ week that caused the parent to not accompany him that particular day at school if they had always been doing so previously. If it was a planned change, or if it was abrupt?

Also wondering why he arrived late to school that day. Something totally coincidental like a planned appt, car troubles or waking up late or was there some sort of struggle or argument or issue about attending school that day, unaccompanied or otherwise.

*edited to clarify the part about child being accompanied to classes daily by a parent

Imho, yes.

I'd suggest an IEP or a 504. A casual agreement would be odd? I think Mom referred to it as a "plan" in her initial statement, so I assumed it was a 504. I know. Assume in one hand.....

 

[fred&edna]

Unbelievable, 2 years, 500k over 12 months. Plus paid contractual hour to assist with transition.
Moo.., I'm not expecting this school system to change. IMO, it would take a complete overhaul, clean house and start over.

Newport News School Board ousts superintendent

The board voted 5-1 to remove Dr. George Parker III, effective February 1. Board member Gary Hunter was the lone vote against removal.

www.13newsnow.com

According to the separation and severance agreement, he will get two years' salary paid over 12 months. 13News Now obtained a copy of Parker's employment contract, which stated his current salary of more than $250,000.
On top of severance pay, the agreement goes on to say, "If the Board requests the Superintendent's assistance in transitioning his duties to his successor, or for other purposes, after the Termination Date, it will compensate him at his hourly rate at the time of his termination."

This is a lot of money going to Parker.

Are there statistics for how much money a school district allocates per child?

 

[PriorTheCreator]

...
But increasing numbers of children with severe psychological disabilities has resulted in mainstreaming gone mad IMO. Sadly, it is not a simple fix.

What does that even mean? We shouldnt properly diagnose out children?

Ignoring it doesnt make it go away.

 

[fred&edna]

Imo... mainstreaming has gone mad!

It is great for some children but not all.

Also, I'm curious... do public schools that increase parental involvement (by some scoring method?) gain extra funds?

 

[pol100gk]

When a child is not neurotypical and needs extra support, there are two avenues - the child remains in a mainstream school or the child will be sent to a specialist school. FAPE (the right to a free and appropriate education under the Americans with Disabilities Act) means that the aim is for a disabled child to have as 'normal' for lack of a better word education as possible. So the aim is to keep as many children in a classroom as possible but with a support system that enables this. A support system can mean pull-out academic support, social workers, school psychiatrist, an inclusion classroom with a second teacher with a special ed background, an aide for the student or other things. In many cases this works great. Of course the more adequately funded a school is, the better it works. Sometimes it doesn't work. Then the kid will be sent to a specialist school that can handle the kid's needs better. But this out-of-district placement is expensive and the school district has to pay for it. I live in an East Coast state with one of the best schools in the country and the highest property taxes and an out of district placement could easily be $100k for the year. So the school districts often try to argue that it is not necessary.

My child has a learning disability (and is getting great IEP services that are so supportive that it looks like they will learn the skills to operate without supports by the time they graduate high school so we are a real success story of a well funded system) so I can't really speak to behavioral aspects of the IEP system, only the academic side.

But it appears from what I have gleaned over the years that IEP students with underlying behavioral issues will get sent to talk to the social worker when they act out in class. That is step one. We have a child with fetal alcohol syndrome in the neighborhood and he was not able to function in a regular classroom. When he set fire to the school bathroom in elementary school, he was then placed out of district. My guess is that something needs to happen for the school district to take that action. So it appears you go through a system of escalation. But this is a system that is well funded and supportive. It appears that things are not like that in Newport News.

As to the parent in the classroom, I have never heard of that either. The only explanation/theory I have is that with staff shortages, the parent acted as aide because the school district was unable to hire one.

I hope this explains the IEP system a little bit. The student will have had an IEP. 504 plans are 'merely' adjustments to help you function during the day. For example, if you are blind the 504 plan will entitle you to books in Braille. Or if you have ADHD, you can get extra time on exams or preferential seating where you can concentrate better. I hope this makes sense.

 

[PriorTheCreator]

Imo... mainstreaming has gone mad!

It is great for some children but not all.

Also, I'm curious... do public schools that increase parental involvement (by some scoring method?) gain extra funds?

What do you mean "mainstreaming has gone mad?"

Should we just not diagnose children with things they have, or work to accommodate those with disabilities?

 

[fred&edna]

What do you mean "mainstreaming has gone mad?"

Should we just not diagnose children with things they have, or work to accommodate those with disabilities?

I didn't say anything about diagnosing children.

There are children with special needs that need specialized instruction which cannot occur in general classrooms. It seems there are many schools that do not have teachers that meet the criteria (and it's likely the criteria in some states has increased) for instructing special needs children thus more and more are mainstreamed into regular classrooms.

Why do you find my comment humorous??

 

[PriorTheCreator]

I didn't say anything about diagnosing children.

There are children with special needs that need specialized instruction which cannot occur in general classrooms. It seems there are many schools that do not have teachers that meet the criteria (and it's likely the criteria in some states has increased) for instructing special needs children thus more and more are mainstreamed into regular classrooms.

Why do you find my comment humorous??

I guess I misunderstood your comment of "Mainstreaming has gone mad" as a criticism of modern diagnosis's for kids.

 

[alex dvport]

When a child is not neurotypical and needs extra support, there are two avenues - the child remains in a mainstream school or the child will be sent to a specialist school. FAPE (the right to a free and appropriate education under the Americans with Disabilities Act) means that the aim is for a disabled child to have as 'normal' for lack of a better word education as possible. So the aim is to keep as many children in a classroom as possible but with a support system that enables this. A support system can mean pull-out academic support, social workers, school psychiatrist, an inclusion classroom with a second teacher with a special ed background, an aide for the student or other things. In many cases this works great. Of course the more adequately funded a school is, the better it works. Sometimes it doesn't work. Then the kid will be sent to a specialist school that can handle the kid's needs better. But this out-of-district placement is expensive and the school district has to pay for it. I live in an East Coast state with one of the best schools in the country and the highest property taxes and an out of district placement could easily be $100k for the year. So the school districts often try to argue that it is not necessary.

My child has a learning disability (and is getting great IEP services that are so supportive that it looks like they will learn the skills to operate without supports by the time they graduate high school so we are a real success story of a well funded system) so I can't really speak to behavioral aspects of the IEP system, only the academic side.

But it appears from what I have gleaned over the years that IEP students with underlying behavioral issues will get sent to talk to the social worker when they act out in class. That is step one. We have a child with fetal alcohol syndrome in the neighborhood and he was not able to function in a regular classroom. When he set fire to the school bathroom in elementary school, he was then placed out of district. My guess is that something needs to happen for the school district to take that action. So it appears you go through a system of escalation. But this is a system that is well funded and supportive. It appears that things are not like that in Newport News.

As to the parent in the classroom, I have never heard of that either. The only explanation/theory I have is that with staff shortages, the parent acted as aide because the school district was unable to hire one.

I hope this explains the IEP system a little bit. The student will have had an IEP. 504 plans are 'merely' adjustments to help you function during the day. For example, if you are blind the 504 plan will entitle you to books in Braille. Or if you have ADHD, you can get extra time on exams or preferential seating where you can concentrate better. I hope this makes sense.

I think this is a great explanation. I will add that many divisions have none, or very few (and at specific schools), self-contained ED classes.

Edited to add: Idk if this child would qualify for a self-contained classroom. It’s only my opinion that there may be emotional behavior concerns based on the act.

There has been a teacher shortage for years, but due to political attacks, behaviors, pay, etc, even more have left the profession. This means that class sizes are larger than ever. I don’t know this child’s diagnosis or the size of the class, but I thought it was worth mentioning. A large class size can be overstimulating to some and spreads one person even more thin than they’re already spread.

 

[pol100gk]

Yes, teacher shortages mean that a school cannot provide the services that are needed but are still required by law to deliver. So they cut corners because they are in a quandary.

In addition, a lot of kids do not get diagnosed till the end of second or beginning of third grade. First grade is young and many issues are only beginning to manifest themselves. So it kind of depends if the child in question here entered the school system with a diagnosis or not. If they came in with a diagnosis, the school would have needed to have a system in place. If the child entered the school system without a pre-existing diagnosis, the teachers (and hopefully parent) would be working toward having the child assessed. As the child had a diagnosis as per the family's legal statement, this could have been a very recent diagnosis.

There are a lot of kids in that gray zone where their behavior is concerning enough that it disrupts the classroom and needs special expertise that doesn't really exist in a mainstream classroom, yet it's not 'bad enough' that the school district would advocate for an out of district placement. This is a huge social problem. On the one hand, it is not fair on teachers and the other students and creates an undue burden. It burns out teachers. It is also not fair to the affected kids as they are not having their needs met either. But providing services in these circumstances is cost prohibitive and there's a huge staff shortage. It would probably mean a doubling of school budgets with conservative estimates. Would society be willing to face that tax increase?

 

[Lkat3513]

Right? A disturbed 6 yo is more likely a result of nurture (or lack thereof) than nature (MOO only)

It all depends on how you look at it. Is a serial killer born or are they nurtured? We know not all socio or psychopaths commit homicides. The question should be why?

 

[Lkat3513]

I believe any adults in his home responsible for his care should be arrested and charged with the shooting.

that doesn't make any sense. The gun was secured per the parents. So if the gun was secured....

You are correct, normal kids don’t shoot teachers. Also, responsible parents don’t allow their 6 years old children to have access to weapons.

I disagree. I have raised 4 children in my residence and have taught them all what a gun is for and why and when we use it. It's not a toy or a game. They have never touched a gun without permission. The parents claims the gun was secured in a closet on a shelf. How did the 6 year old get it if it was secured? We need to teach gun safety to our children, over and over again so they understand using a gun is deadly, regardless of whether the gun is secure or not. They have also been taught how to load, clean and use guns in the house since they were 3-4 years old. It's not about access - it's about teaching your children. If you as a parent are going to possess a firearm in your residence - then teach the rules, reinforce the rules and make sure your children learn the respect for a weapon and human life.

 

[pol100gk]

that doesn't make any sense. The gun was secured per the parents. So if the gun was secured....

I disagree. I have raised 4 children in my residence and have taught them all what a gun is for and why and when we use it. It's not a toy or a game. They have never touched a gun without permission. The parents claims the gun was secured in a closet on a shelf. How did the 6 year old get it if it was secured? We need to teach gun safety to our children, over and over again so they understand using a gun is deadly, regardless of whether the gun is secure or not. They have also been taught how to load, clean and use guns in the house since they were 3-4 years old. It's not about access - it's about teaching your children. If you as a parent are going to possess a firearm in your residence - then teach the rules, reinforce the rules and make sure your children learn the respect for a weapon and human life.

Lack of impulse control is part of many behavioral disabilities. You can teach and reinforce rules till the cows come home but when the kid has poor impulse control, that only takes you so far.
I used to be judgemental and think that behavioral issues are just the parents not providing enough structure and giving enough attention but it is more complicated than that.
Although of course providing an appropriate environment helps enormously with managing behavioral disabilities...but it doesn't make them go away.

 

[shotgun09]

The big big mystery here, is how did the " secure gun" ( stated by family attorney Ellenson ) become INSECURE in the hands of a 6 year old boy who brough the gun to his school, who lived in the same home where it was claimed secure? That aspect, of the child gaining access, somehow is not clear. Or, is it?

 

[YepperBepper]

Yes, teacher shortages mean that a school cannot provide the services that are needed but are still required by law to deliver. So they cut corners because they are in a quandary.

In addition, a lot of kids do not get diagnosed till the end of second or beginning of third grade. First grade is young and many issues are only beginning to manifest themselves. So it kind of depends if the child in question here entered the school system with a diagnosis or not. If they came in with a diagnosis, the school would have needed to have a system in place. If the child entered the school system without a pre-existing diagnosis, the teachers (and hopefully parent) would be working toward having the child assessed. As the child had a diagnosis as per the family's legal statement, this could have been a very recent diagnosis.

There are a lot of kids in that gray zone where their behavior is concerning enough that it disrupts the classroom and needs special expertise that doesn't really exist in a mainstream classroom, yet it's not 'bad enough' that the school district would advocate for an out of district placement. This is a huge social problem. On the one hand, it is not fair on teachers and the other students and creates an undue burden. It burns out teachers. It is also not fair to the affected kids as they are not having their needs met either. But providing services in these circumstances is cost prohibitive and there's a huge staff shortage. It would probably mean a doubling of school budgets with conservative estimates. Would society be willing to face that tax increase?

Preface this by saying, I have two moderately challenged teens and have also worked with transition age children in crisis. Adding into your other post and this one ..I agree. As per your reference to the parents acting as a aide..never thought of that. If so, they would have to be employees of the school? I suppose another possibility is behavioral support? Like every other sector in education and mental health (and those crossover positions), there is a shortage of behavioral health workers/therapeutic staff support (in my state referred to as TSS). If this child had a DX and the family requested behavioral health services through insurance, the behavioral health company may have employed mom or dad to be the TSS until one could be found? I'd think it's possible that this child may have had a Behavioral Intervention Plan (BIP)? BIPs are the plans that address already present behaviors (which include many of the behaviors that this little guy exhibited), at least in my state, although it may differ elsewhere.

Both my guys are moderately autistic diagnosed at 3 via neuropsych and we had services begin at 3 via early intervention. Tss accompanied both guys full time to school initially, titrated down based on behaviors. They both had IEPs, as their behaviors weren't violent (to others), although a BIPs were initially discussed as possibilities.

Additionally, we chose a private school because the "least restrictive environment" that was being offered through the district was (imho) not appropriate for my guys and would have overwhelmed the teacher and rest of the class. I was not willing to wait one school year to review the outcome (which was the district's policy at the time).

As you can see from your posts and mine, parents, teachers and districts have quite a bit of red tape to walk through when it comes to special education...and every piece of tape that you cut costs money and requires specialized employees, neither of which are generally available.

Imho