VA VA - David Metzler, 19, & Heidi Childs, 18, fatally shot, Montgomery Co, 26 Aug 2009

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Here are some tidbits I found regarding hunting.

"Be aware of shooting regulations within the Forest. Shooting is prohibited within 150 yards of a building, campsite, developed recreation site or occupied area; or across or on a road or body of water; or in any manner or place where a person or property is exposed to injury or damage. Title 36 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) 261.10(d)"

I would imagine that hunting out of season also triggers Title 36 of the CFR and possibly the Lacey Act.

"The lowest offense violates orders 36 CFR 2.2 and CFR 2.4 in the Code of Federal Regulations. This order is from the Dept. of Interior, which oversees the National Park Service. According to 36 CFR, violators will be subject to a maximum of a $5,000 fine and/or six months in jail.

If a person takes an animal against state or federal rules, they are violating the Lacey Act.

The Lacey Act was designed in order to give the Dept. of Interior the right to develop procedures that will help in restoring types of wildlife in areas of the U.S. in which they have become scarce or extinct. It also allows them to regulate the numbers of animals being introduced to areas to make sure the population does not get too high.

People who violate the Lacey Act are subject to serious penalties. There are also different penalties depending on the type of animal.

Different monetary values are placed on each animal. If the animal’s cost is under $350, then the crime is only considered a misdemeanor. A person can be fined up to $10,000 and/or face up to one year of prison."
 
This is a different case I've been following, Teresa Butler, in MO. For over 13 years many of us thought this would go unsolved. But now it is revealed that LE knew who the suspect was within 48 hours. They just didn't have the evidence. I'm hoping LE has something similar in Heidi and David's murders.
After over 13 years, arrest made in Teresa Butler case
 
JnRyan said:
This is a different case I've been following, Teresa Butler, in MO. For over 13 years many of us thought this would go unsolved. But now it is revealed that LE knew who the suspect was within 48 hours. They just didn't have the evidence. I'm hoping LE has something similar in Heidi and David's murders.
After over 13 years, arrest made in Teresa Butler case
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Do you have link to the thread here? TIA! :)
 
I have a few tid bits about this case that I find interesting. I moved to that area in 2007 and was a student at Virginia Tech when this shooting happened. My family also went to church with Heidi's family.

The area that the shooting happened is very rural. Also is "redneck"...so around the area it is not uncommon to hear multiple gunshots, even after dark. Especially since raccoon hunters hunt at night. So hearing multiple gunshots would not cause a 911 call.

Talking about the number of gunshots, mind you this has been 10 years since the conversation, but Heidi had a closed casket funeral because of the amount of gunshot wounds she had. Do not quote me on this, but I thought I remember her dad saying it was over 8. What strikes me odd with this, is a lever action 30-30 you may be able to hold 4 rounds at a time. If it really was over 8 shots into her, then the shooter would of had to taken the time to reload the gun and shoot some more.

I feel like the purse and her belongings were taken because they were in plain site. His wallet would of been in his pocket and not visible. Which makes me think that it wasn't a robbery attempt, that maybe her purse and camera were just a spurt-of-the-moment thing because they were in plain view.

This case has been on my mind for the last 10 years...and it's sad that even around that area most of the locals have forgotten about it. This may have helped the murderer lay low as they have. I still believe it was a local in the area. My gut still tells me they weren't targeted specifically, but in the wrong place at the wrong time.
 
crazyrabbitlady said:
I have a few tid bits about this case that I find interesting. I moved to that area in 2007 and was a student at Virginia Tech when this shooting happened. My family also went to church with Heidi's family.

The area that the shooting happened is very rural. Also is "redneck"...so around the area it is not uncommon to hear multiple gunshots, even after dark. Especially since raccoon hunters hunt at night. So hearing multiple gunshots would not cause a 911 call.

Talking about the number of gunshots, mind you this has been 10 years since the conversation, but Heidi had a closed casket funeral because of the amount of gunshot wounds she had. Do not quote me on this, but I thought I remember her dad saying it was over 8. What strikes me odd with this, is a lever action 30-30 you may be able to hold 4 rounds at a time. If it really was over 8 shots into her, then the shooter would of had to taken the time to reload the gun and shoot some more.

I feel like the purse and her belongings were taken because they were in plain site. His wallet would of been in his pocket and not visible. Which makes me think that it wasn't a robbery attempt, that maybe her purse and camera were just a spurt-of-the-moment thing because they were in plain view.

This case has been on my mind for the last 10 years...and it's sad that even around that area most of the locals have forgotten about it. This may have helped the murderer lay low as they have. I still believe it was a local in the area. My gut still tells me they weren't targeted specifically, but in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Click to expand...
8 shots?! Both of the more common types of 30-30 rifles - Winchester Model 94 and Marlin Model 336 - have a 6 round magazine so with a round in the chamber that gives you 7. If he killed David with his first shot that leaves only 6 rounds. He would have to have reloaded. That would mean 9 empty casings or more. That also increases the chance he would be careless and maybe get fingerprints on the shells. And with that many rounds there is a possibility he didn't get them all.

I still wonder what LE has in this case. The evidence LE could possibly have in addition to DNA could be fingerprints, shoe prints, tire tracks and empty casings. They might have the bullet that killed David, but the ones fired out toward the field would be very difficult to recover. I also wonder that if LE can determine where the shooter was standing when he shot David if they wouldn't be able to look at the trajectory of the bullet and get an approximate height of the shooter.
 
crazyrabbitlady said:
I believe you are right that the LE has more information, but part of me also thinks it was poorly investigated. Another case that comes to mind is the Noah Thomas investigation which was the next county over and the LE on it didn't handle the investigation very well.
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Yeah, unfortunately, I agree. While LE has more information, they dropped the ball somewhere along the line. VSP came in too late to help. This killer is either local or someone with local connections.
 
The site is in the National Forest, I know A LOT of hunters who use that area especially people coming down from Giles County. I still believe this was a hunter, due to the fact it was a 30-30, maybe in a rage over a recent divorce, a cheating spouse, or some type of grudge against a "couple" he would see. That could explain why it was a one time incident, and not more of a serial type killing.
 
crazyrabbitlady said:
The site is in the National Forest, I know A LOT of hunters who use that area especially people coming down from Giles County. I still believe this was a hunter, due to the fact it was a 30-30, maybe in a rage over a recent divorce, a cheating spouse, or some type of grudge against a "couple" he would see. That could explain why it was a one time incident, and not more of a serial type killing.
Click to expand...

Yes agree...a hunter. Nobody really buys a 30-30 to protect themselves in the home. Instead, they have a hand gun.

Since the murder happened in August, there is nothing "in season" except shooting crows and cayotes that have a bounty paid by the state. That bounty is also another reason why there is so much shooting going on at all times for the day/night and would not be uncommon to hear shots even if out of season for grouse, squirrels, deer, etc.

This person is a Bubba with a pick up truck and a rifle in the back window (for example). And however, there are hundreds of people who fit that bill in the rural Blacksburg area.
 
I agree its a Bubba, which sadly is almost everyone in this area.
Justice101 said:
Yes agree...a hunter. Nobody really buys a 30-30 to protect themselves in the home. Instead, they have a hand gun.

Since the murder happened in August, there is nothing "in season" except shooting crows and cayotes that have a bounty paid by the state. That bounty is also another reason why there is so much shooting going on at all times for the day/night and would not be uncommon to hear shots even if out of season for grouse, squirrels, deer, etc.

This person is a Bubba with a pick up truck and a rifle in the back window (for example). And however, there are hundreds of people who fit that bill in the rural Blacksburg area.
Click to expand...

And yeah, there is nothing "in season" but the area is also a very poor area, and I know a lot of people that will go out and kill deer out of season to feed their families...and a lot of the time the game wardens will turn a blind eye to it.

Didn't even think about the coyote bounty...and a lot of hunting clubs put on predator hunt tournaments...wonder if there were any going on that weekend.
 
I had heard about this case several years ago but just read the WS thread on it this morning. My questions are about these two vehicles seen in the area:

A dark-colored van or minivan was parked at Caldwell Fields after dark.

A gray or cream-colored early 2000s model Pontiac Bonneville, parked near Caldwell Fields around midnight.

From this article: ‘It’s time to come forward’: $100k reward offered for information on brutal murder of ‘inseparable’ Virginia Tech couple

Is the only place to park near Caldwell Fields the parking area where the murder was committed? If so, I don't see how either of these vehicles could be parked there at the times listed and not see something either happening or the aftermath of the crime/Heidi's body on the ground. I have seen photos of this parking area and it seems pretty small, not like a huge parking lot. If they were murdered around 8:30/8:40 PM, I could maybe see the first van arriving before they showed up (all it says is "after dark," and with sunset being at 7:57 PM that day according to Google, I guess it's possible they were there closer to, say 815, but whoever witnessed the van said it was "after dark"). But the midnight vehicle--with headlights on, wouldn't it illuminate the crime scene in that small parking area?

Now obviously, that would be if the vehicle's occupant was innocent. But if it was the killer, it would be kind of stupid to return to the murder scene a few hours later. I wonder who gave police descriptions of these vehicles? I thought the closest houses were about a mile away? So does that mean the witness/witnesses of these cars were also other people out driving around near Caldwell Fields that night? I'm assuming more than one as these sightings span the course of a few hours. If so, within the span of only a few hours when it is pitch dark out, that's quite a few cars in that very remote area! Possibly 12 if there is a separate witness for each of these vehicles in question.
 
MntnHiker said:
I had heard about this case several years ago but just read the WS thread on it this morning. My questions are about these two vehicles seen in the area:

A dark-colored van or minivan was parked at Caldwell Fields after dark.

A gray or cream-colored early 2000s model Pontiac Bonneville, parked near Caldwell Fields around midnight.

From this article: ‘It’s time to come forward’: $100k reward offered for information on brutal murder of ‘inseparable’ Virginia Tech couple

Is the only place to park near Caldwell Fields the parking area where the murder was committed? If so, I don't see how either of these vehicles could be parked there at the times listed and not see something either happening or the aftermath of the crime/Heidi's body on the ground. I have seen photos of this parking area and it seems pretty small, not like a huge parking lot. If they were murdered around 8:30/8:40 PM, I could maybe see the first van arriving before they showed up (all it says is "after dark," and with sunset being at 7:57 PM that day according to Google, I guess it's possible they were there closer to, say 815, but whoever witnessed the van said it was "after dark"). But the midnight vehicle--with headlights on, wouldn't it illuminate the crime scene in that small parking area?

Now obviously, that would be if the vehicle's occupant was innocent. But if it was the killer, it would be kind of stupid to return to the murder scene a few hours later. I wonder who gave police descriptions of these vehicles? I thought the closest houses were about a mile away? So does that mean the witness/witnesses of these cars were also other people out driving around near Caldwell Fields that night? I'm assuming more than one as these sightings span the course of a few hours. If so, within the span of only a few hours when it is pitch dark out, that's quite a few cars in that very remote area! Possibly 12 if there is a separate witness for each of these vehicles in question.
Click to expand...
Those vehicles were mentioned in the 2012 PC. In the subsequent years when there have been updates, I've seen very little regarding vehicles. So now I wonder is LE still looking for these vehicles? Have any been located and eliminated? Like you, I find it odd that someone could have been up there that evening and not seen something unusual.
 
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