VA VA - Elizabeth Ellen Palmer, 20, Roanoke, 25 July 1972

Discussion in '1970's Missing' started by MadMcGoo, Oct 30, 2019.

  1. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Someone Somewhere knows Something

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    Elizabeth Ellen Palmer
    Missing Person / NamUs #MP61156
    [​IMG]
    Date of Last Contact: July 25, 1972
    Missing From: Roanoke, Roanoke County, Virginia
    Agency Case Number: 19-28672
    Investigating Agencies:
    Virginia State Police: (540) 375-9568
    www.vsp.virginia.gov

    Sex: Female
    Race/Ethnicity: White/Caucasian
    Missing Age: 20 years old
    First Name: Elizabeth
    Middle Name: Ellen
    Last Name: Palmer
    Height: 5'3"-5'5" (63-35 inches)
    Weight: 110-120 lbs
    Hair Color: Dark brown, below shoulders, side-swept bangs
    Eye Color: Blue

    Circumstances of Disappearance: The missing person's family dropped her off at the Roanoke Airport and she was not seen again.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    (Photos: (1)-large freckle on nose, (2)-last known photo of Elizabeth, (3)-actual photo, (4)-postmark of last letter from Elizabeth)

    I found Elizabeth on NamUs this morning - her case was added about 2 days ago - and I feel like she has to be one of our Does! I've been going over in my head who she could be but there are just so many during that time who seem to match her physical description and the circumstances of her disappearance. I've posted the information found on NamUs and will see what other information I can find on her. Hopefully someone will recognize her!

    *MMcG*
     
  2. Beekarina

    Beekarina Well-Known Member

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    She looks familiar! I know what you mean about a "type", but I'm fairly certain I have seen her before.
     
  3. Beekarina

    Beekarina Well-Known Member

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    Interesting....she sent a letter from NY in 1974?
     
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  4. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Someone Somewhere knows Something

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    I thought so too! I have a very photographic memory...but the more I thought about her the more I started seeing her in every face! I think she has a few distinctive features, like the large freckle/sun spot on the side of her nose, her eyebrows and her almost “box-y” chin. But for the most part those features would be near impossible to detect, depending on the amount of decomposition (if any).

    I’m hoping to find more information about that postmarked letter from New York. When I created the thread I noticed there weren’t many people posted who were reported missing from Virginia during the 70’s. I haven’t looked beyond WS but it does seem unusual for a MP from Virginia to make their way to New York...and two years later? Seems like someone her age would have wanted to venture west... JMO, but I will definitely be searching for more info! NamUs didn’t provide any more detail about the letter or her disappearance.
     
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  5. Beekarina

    Beekarina Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if her flight from Roanoke was to NYC area? That makes some sense. I can picture a young woman moving to The Big City, and not visiting home for a year or two, sending letters, and perhaps calling home occasionally instead if they were very busy with work & social life?

    Speculation by me, of course. I personally did something like this myself with a different city.
     
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  6. Justice4bethdoe

    Justice4bethdoe Active Member

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    on the Beth doe board I was suggesting that Elizabeth Palmer could be Beth Doe. I have always felt the eye color could be off with Beth Doe, found in PA December 1976. A bent finger may have been overlooked with Beth Doe. Beth Doe's nose was cut off so if there was a big freckle on her nose nobody would know. I looked at Palmer's picture next to the partial postmortem photo of Beth doe and she does look similar to me.
     
  7. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Someone Somewhere knows Something

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    Yeah, definitely a possibility! I did a little more digging yesterday and found some new information! Quite a bit more than what was posted on NamUs.

    The first thing that came up when I just did a Google search was a Facebook post on The AWARE Foundation, Inc.'s page about Elizabeth. It was posted on October 28, 2019. Then I found a group for Elizabeth. Her family and friends have done a wonderful job gathering and sharing so much information about her disappearance. I reached out to a niece and invited her to join the group. I let her know I’d share the additional details here on WS! Where is Elizabeth Palmer?

    I am still reading through everything myself, but will share things here as I come across things!
    There are several letters sent by Elizabeth that are posted in the group and many more details about the “cult”/missionary group theory.

    C4B18F14-FA62-401C-A006-43DBAC23F701.jpeg 778D59CD-602F-422C-9FDA-C933597DA077.jpeg DD231B40-8A19-47CB-B03E-B99CD1F7A28A.jpeg 9A5C6C23-ACB7-4F60-9B2F-7D26C7BF5CE6.jpeg 9118CEC2-3680-4BAD-A678-1123C2D63957.jpeg 26EE6377-311F-405D-B600-16F73AEC3A43.jpeg

    Alias/Nickname: “Liz”
    Date of Birth: March 16, 1952
    Distinguishing Feature: Right pinkie finger is bent due to previous injury
    Details of Disappearance: A timeline was posted and her niece, Tracy, verified its accuracy (letters are posted in group). I will post it in a separate reply.
     
  8. Justice4bethdoe

    Justice4bethdoe Active Member

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    carl koppelman's sketch of what Beth Doe would have looked like
    upload_2019-10-31_10-0-31.jpeg

    I think this picture done by Carl resembles Elizabeth Palmer in some of her pictures. I want to post a side by side comparison of a picture of Elizabeth and Beth Doe's partial postmortem but the picture is very graphic and I don't want to upset anyone.
     
  9. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Someone Somewhere knows Something

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    They do look quite a bit similar! I haven’t read the details of Beth Doe’s case, but I see the resemblance to Carl’s recon.
     
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  10. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Someone Somewhere knows Something

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    Posted by: Pamela Topping, October 3, 2019
    *Paraphrased RBM
    *All correspondence was from Elizabeth to her family in Salem, Virginia (unless otherwise noted) and listed locations indicate postmarks, followed by summary of what Elizabeth wrote

    Elizabeth Ellen Palmer “Liz”
    Date of Birth: 16 Mar 1952

    TIMELINE
    • June 1970- Graduated from Andrew Lewis High School, Roanoke County, VIrginia
    • 28 Sep 1971- (Postcard) Selma, Alabama (age 19) This was her 1st trip away from Salem, Virginia. Was driving white 1962 Chevrolet Corvair 4-door sedan
    • 29 Sep 1971- (Postcard) Dustin, Louisiana
    • 30 Sep 1971- (Postcard) Laredo, Texas
    • 01 Oct 1971 - Laredo, Texas
    • 03 Oct 1971- (no postmark) Mexico: saw Sierra Madre Oriental and San Luis, Potosi, Mexico, met 3 people
    • 06 Oct 1971- to father (?), Mexico
    • 12 Oct 1971- Monterrey, Mexico: went to dentist for filling, will start tutoring English to college students, will receive free room and board
    • 17 Oct 1971- (Postcard) Monterrey, NL, Mexico: met larger group
    • 24 Oct 1971- (written 10/17) San Miguel, Mexico: rode horses with group to see waterfalls, ate at a restaurant at top with large glass window all around it
    • 27 Oct 1971- (written 10/23) Monterrey, NL, Mexico: met a leader in her group, argued some points at first but was mostly coming around to his way of thinking
    • 31 Oct 1971- Los Garzas, NL, Mexico: visited place that Pancho Villa-Gómez Palacios (?) used as a fortress and again mentions meeting dozens of friendly people
    • 03 Nov 1971- Los Garzas, NL, Mexico: met “Santiago” demonstrating Maverick with Ford Motor Company and drove car on Mexico International Raceway; she has an announcement
    • 05 Nov 1971- Monterrey, NL, Mexico: contained money order for Christmas presents
    • 05 Nov 1971- Monterrey, NL, Mexico: contained money order receipt
    • 08 Nov 1971- Monterrey, NL, Mexico: cutting contact with family and friends because of group she’s traveling with
    • 27 Nov 1971- New Orleans, Louisiana: changed her mind about cutting contact, in New Orleans and leaving country soon
    • 24 July 1972- (Age 20) Elizabeth left a letter for her family after visiting them in Salem, Virginia: somewhat secretive about when she was going to leave, sister took her to Woodrum Airport in Roanoke, Virginia; the passenger list has since been lost
    • 17 April 1973- (written 2/1973, age 20) Yonkers, New York: happy and healthy, plans to visit the following summer, has an announcement
    • 20 April 1974- (age 21 or just 22 when written) Yonkers, New York: apologizes for not visiting the following summer, had trouble with transportation, studying chemistry, wants to build her parents a new home; she is not alone
     
  11. Quina7

    Quina7 New Member

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    Note that the last two envelopes from Yonkers, NY were not addressed by Elizabeth. They have a very odd handwriting style.
     
  12. Coffee56

    Coffee56 Well-Known Member

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    Unable to really "dig in" right now but I get the feeling something definitely happened between Nov 8th and Nov 27th of 1971. Will be taking a much closer look at the letters/postcards written after that date.
    Took a quick look through the UID's for the time frame and she could fit many of them. I did want to mention the Lady of the Dunes. Hair color and extensive/expensive dental work do not appear to be a match so probably not very likely (though the NYC style of dentist work does fit in with some of Elizabeth's travels, I'm not sure how she could have have afforded it)

    The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
     
  13. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Someone Somewhere knows Something

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    Yes! That’s correct, from what I’ve read so far (still trying to get through all the info) it was a letter written by Elizabeth inside an envelope that was not written in her handwriting. That struck me as odd...could have had someone else mail the letter? Lack of funds? A few possibilities there. It’s heartbreaking and frightening to think about how many people these “groups” preyed upon. And how easy it was to manipulate even the most intelligent of people. :(
     
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  14. Not In My Backyard

    Not In My Backyard Member

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    Aside from Sumter county Jane does moles. She does fit the profile of Sumter county Jane doe
     
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  15. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Someone Somewhere knows Something

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    According to that timeline and IIRC one of the photos, she returned to Salem, Virginia in July of 1972 and left a note for her family when she left there on the 24th of July. It seems like the family is still working on verifying the information, but apparently she left her car at an aunt’s house before she was taken to the airport. She told her aunt not to tell her other family about the car being there and she removed the tags.

    So, it seems like the April 17, 1973 letter (the first one postmarked Yonkers, NY) was written by her. She mentions visiting Salem, VA again during the upcoming summer. Then, the last letter (written by her) that was inside an envelope written, assumingely, by someone else and postmarked again from Yonkers on April 20, 1974, she apologizes for not visiting the previous summer like she mentioned in the 1973 letter. I hope that makes sense.

    I just wonder if something happened after the ‘73 letter and she was possibly forced to write the letter that was sent almost exactly a year later? I guess in order for whomever may have harmed her to hang on to and send at a later date. Would explain why the writing on the envelope was different than hers. Pure speculation and opinions of course. I’m still reading and “digging” also... those are just my initial thoughts.
     
  16. Gardener1850

    Gardener1850 #RememberingCupcake

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    Following this one. My first thought when I saw her name was Elizabeth was to wonder if she could be the mysterious "Elizabeth Evans" who Serial Killer "Bob Evans" (AKA Terry Rasmussen) listed as his wife. All we really know about her is that she signed for a certified letter as "Elizabeth Evans". But that letter was signed for in 1980. She probably would have written her family again sometime between 1974 and 1980. Timeline of that case here: NH - NH/CA - Terry Peder Rasmussen, suspected SK, Allenstown, 1981-2000's - #3

    MOO.
     
  17. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Someone Somewhere knows Something

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    I hadn't thought of Rasmussen. It seems like she was good about keeping in touch with her family - looks like the longer she traveled the less she wrote, so I think I agree that she would have been heard from sometime between '74 and '80. It's possible though, considering how 'influential' some of these groups were on people. I'll have to refresh my memory on the details of "Elizabeth Evans". It's been awhile since I read through that.

    The first information I found when I really started digging last night was information about a 22 year old woman named Ellen Elizabeth (Palmer) Johnsrud, who was found murdered in Houston, Texas along with a friend of hers. This was April 26, 1974 (postmark date of last Yonkers, NY letter received by Elizabeth's family was April 20, 1974). A man by the name of John Stiles Griffin who was convicted of those murders and then believed to be responsible of another murder in Anaheim, California, along with several other crimes. He escaped from a Seagoville, Texas federal prison in the 1960's and then a California prison at the time of these murders. I've never heard of this guy but I'm willing to bet he is responsible for more than just the violent crimes he was convicted of. Several locations he was known to have lived in or around (one being Port Arthur, TX) caught my eye. He didn't elaborate on or brag about his crimes like others we've seen. He's currently incarcerated in Texas and serving a life sentence. (somewhat OT, IMO he should be one to considered when looking into some of the Jane Does from that time frame)

    I saw earlier that someone mentioned it in a comment on one of the Facebook posts but it wasn't said whether it was the same person. The date of birth and some other information I was able to find by doing a public search does not match Elizabeth's and I'm assuming authorities would have made the connection. Could be just a coincidence. Then again, Elizabeth wasn't entered into NamUs until this month and sounds like it has been difficult trying to get a report filed with law enforcement. One detail that stood out was that one of the girls found in Houston, Ellen, was wearing a tennis outfit when she was discovered. Several friends and family members in her FB group have talked about Elizabeth playing tennis.

    I'm also attaching a missing person flyer for Elizabeth. The newspaper articles were found at newspapers.com
     
  18. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Someone Somewhere knows Something

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  19. Coffee56

    Coffee56 Well-Known Member

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    I thought of "Elizabeth Evans" too. It would be unlike Elizabeth to not contact family but I can also see "Bob Evans" cutting off that contact. I'm not that familiar with his travels other than CA and NH. Was he ever in New York around the time frames when the last 2 letters were sent?
    I feel like there are so many possibilities here. She was a traveler and seemed to fall in with crowds that probably did not have her best interests at heart. She also seemed to make quick, rash, huge decisions that could have landed her anywhere. Continuing to dig.
     
  20. Coffee56

    Coffee56 Well-Known Member

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    I found this in a timeline provided by Gardener in Rasmussen's thread. Thank you Gardener. I could find that he was supposed to have been in Virginia but I couldn't find where or when. And here's the where. Now the when.

    Roanoke, Va.: Evans claimed he married his wife Denise LaPorte here, who cannot be identified or located

    It was being replied to in post #17.

    Terry Peder Rasmussen: Media, Timelines, Photos *NO-DISCUSSION*
     

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