VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #6

Status
Not open for further replies.

Fireweed

New Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Messages
1,241
Reaction score
21
I think a lot of people just like to keep ALL options opened. The facts are that right now, we just know she is missing. Do I think I crime was committed? Yep, but I can still entertain the idea that something else happened. I always have to remember to go back to the last fact we have, which is that she is missing.

I can entertain that possibility too. I have just a read a few posts that suggest that because being missing is not a crime, that is proof that no crime occurred here, which makes absolutely zero sense to me. I see a lot here to indicate that a crime occurred. Again, no "proof" but certainly quite a lot of evidence.

Being missing is not a crime, but a young woman being missing for a week after a night out on the town is really, really good evidence that a crime was committed against her. If JL was last person to see her alive, then he will naturally be a POI. That is not "proof" that he killed Hannah, but it certainly casts reasonable suspicion on him (considering the circumstances). Yes, having a drink with a girl who later went missing is not a crime and is not "proof". Yes, being the last person to see a missing girl alive is not "proof" that you killed her. Under the circumstances, however, this all points to JL being the prime suspect in the disappearance of HG.
 

Lava

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
2,030
Reaction score
308
Enough with this issue of proof/evidence of a crime. A judge has issued 2 search warrants in connection with Hannah Graham's disappearance. That means the judge thinks there is probable cause to believe a crime was committed.

But we don't know what the reasoning is for those warrants. A knife, or girls clothing in the back of a car belonging to someone last seen with the missing person is enough to issue a warrant. There is probable cause to investigate it but until WE know exactly what they found, etc, we just don't know all the circumstances.
 

Dixie811

New Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2012
Messages
2,265
Reaction score
42
Just throwing out more and more "speculation" here...sorry to those who want cold, hard facts, as I don't have any of those. ;) Wonder if Dreds could have approached Hannah with a line such as, "Hey, you don't look like you are doing too well...I work at a hospital, I can get you some anti-nausea medication. You need fluids...come with me, I have all this medical stuff at my place. Then, I will drop you off at your party."

I think anyone could have gotten her in their car just by offering her a ride-- to home, or wherever it was that she was trying to go.
 

Skigirl

Verified expert in neuroscience
Joined
May 27, 2009
Messages
4,843
Reaction score
6,581
Was just about to say this. His picture is just a black square. Changed within the hour.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

If a bunch of people on the internet were calling me a murderer, "slow", a friend came out and talked about my "stupid" shorts and grandma was talking to the British press about how I eat my greens, I would probably take my photo down too. :panic:
 

Fireweed

New Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Messages
1,241
Reaction score
21
But we don't know what the reasoning is for those warrants. A knife, or girls clothing in the back of a car belonging to someone last seen with the missing person is enough to issue a warrant. There is probable cause to investigate it but until WE know exactly what they found, etc, we just don't know all the circumstances.

Yeah, I do not understand how someone could tell us "enough" with discussing proof/evidence on a board called WEBSLEUTHS. Is there something I am missing?
 

cluciano63

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
41,200
Reaction score
27,187
I feel pretty certain that Hannah became a victim of a crime sometime that night. But I also think there is a (very) small chance she may have fallen, injured herself, became lost, couldn't get up or whatever. She seemed intoxicated just by her behavior, Imo. Anything can happen. She could have run off to join a circus for all we know. They need hard evidence, especially if they can't find her. :(

In most cases when someone is charged without finding the victim, there is either a crime scene, a history of violence/abuse, or a witness and/or confession from a co-perp. Not too many cases without any kind of real evidence beyond "last seen with". Jmo
 

leilarose68

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2013
Messages
1,278
Reaction score
2,758
I am curious to those here who think that no crime has been committed, what do you think happened to Hannah?

i don't think anyone believes a crime hasn't been committed. people just look at the facts and realize that there is no concrete evidence to suggest she was abducted. aka no physical evidence that's been released, not even a video of hannah getting into that dude's car. as much as it seems obvious that she was abducted, you can't say that beyond a reasonable doubt.
 

Lava

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
2,030
Reaction score
308
I can entertain that possibility too. I have just a read a few posts that suggest that because being missing is not a crime, that is proof that no crime occurred here, which makes absolutely zero sense to me. I see a lot here to indicate that a crime occurred. Again, no "proof" but certainly quite a lot of evidence.

Being missing is not a crime, but a young woman being missing for a week after a night out on the town is really, really good evidence that a crime was committed against her. If JL was last person to see her alive, then he will naturally be a POI. That is not "proof" that he killed Hannah, but it certainly casts reasonable suspicion on him (considering the circumstances). Yes, having a drink with a girl who later went missing is not a crime and is not "proof". Yes, being the last person to see a missing girl alive is not "proof" that you killed her. Under the circumstances, however, this all points to JL being the prime suspect in the disappearance of HG.

A lot of people here just like to be very technical. I like to be technical because I'm always on the fence until it is just way too obvious and I need to pick a side. For instance, If I say there is no proof of a crime being committed, that statement just ends there. It doesn't really mean I think a crime hasn't been committed. But I've followed missing persons case that I was sure was a crime when it ended up not being a crime. And in the process, some peoples reputations have been hurt and left some of us feeling guilt i'm sure. So, I'm sure others like me just like to stick to the technicalities, talk of theories, and stay away from absolutes.
 

mrshayes

New Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Messages
60
Reaction score
0
Like I said, it's not relevant to HANNAH'S case. This is about Hannah being missing. So far, there have been zero substantiated links between Hannah's disappearance and Morgan's murder. I think going on and on about the cab and how he might have been a cabbie years ago muddies the waters when it comes to Hannah.

So, if you knew that he was connected to Morgan, would you think it likely that he harmed Hannah? He can easily be connected to or ruled out ie. Morgan because of the DNA connection. That is why I think it's hugely relevant to Hannah.
 

hambirg

New Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
3,380
Reaction score
18
He looks nothing like the 2005 Rape/Morgan suspect to me. Of course, sketches can be off a bit so it could be him and just not a great sketch.

It so hard to tell, but it is possible. Even if the sketch is off, try to see what that witness may have been saying. . .long nose, full lips, long round face, square hairline, medium almond shaped eyes, etc. It could be him. The eyebrows are way off to me, but that may not mean anything. Recalling something about a traumatic event can be difficult.

I'm torn between this guy being the poor unfortunate sap who bought a pretty girl a drink shortly before she disappeared. . .to this could be the guy. . .in a BIG way. Meaning he could be the MH perp. The previous address being so close in vicinty to the Farm makes me. . . :panic:
 

leilarose68

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2013
Messages
1,278
Reaction score
2,758
Enough with this issue of proof/evidence of a crime. A judge has issued 2 search warrants in connection with Hannah Graham's disappearance. That means the judge thinks there is probable cause to believe a crime was committed.

and it could simply be because he was the last person seen with hannah, as far as they know. doesn't mean that a crime was committed beyond a reasonable doubt.
i'm just sticking to the facts, here and being technical. it seems likely hannah was abducted, but we're still only speculating at this point.
 

Lava

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
2,030
Reaction score
308
Yeah, I do not understand how someone could tell us "enough" with discussing proof/evidence on a board called WEBSLEUTHS. Is there something I am missing?

In other cases LE will say what they found to lead to more warrants or whatever. Every case is different, and every department is different with what they will release. Sometimes we get a ton of info, and sometimes we are left to wonder. But it is important to remember that a warrant is not always an absolute indicator. It could be anything.
 

elmomom

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
3,221
Reaction score
5,126
I am curious to those here who think that no crime has been committed, what do you think happened to Hannah?

I will answer even though I think Hannah has been murdered, and I never claimed she wasn't. I have followed many, many cases and I have yet to see a warrant for DNA, or an arrest without any documented evidence of a crime. Missing a week is just not evidence of anything. I have seen warrants issued to help in the discovery if evidence, such as a search warrant. But DNA? No. an arrest on charges related to the unspecified reason she is missing? no.
I am also very frustrated that LE in VA would provide identifying data to out (publicly identify) a black man at this particular time in this particular area. But I would rather not get into a debate over my personal beliefs about the way this case is being handled and I am withholding judgement until there is... Evidence.
 

SwampMama

Insomniac Extraordinaire
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
3,354
Reaction score
28
I think he's probably in his apartment. Didn't someone post a twitter comment from a reporter saying there was no answer but lights/TV were on? Maybe he is watching the game and reading WS....

But they said they did not know where he is. I would think that home would be the last place he would want to be right now, laying low in there and awaiting a swat team or something to come and get me (my imagination only).

I would hope he has found legal counsel by now and will come forward. He cannot run and avoid forever. He is now likely without a car, job and a "safe" home. With no job he cannot afford rent and would be unlikely to stay in such a visible place anyway.

While I can understand the apprehensions of a black man coming forward voluntarily to place himself in the case of a missing white girl, If he is innocent then I cannot help but wonder why he didnt simply get a lawyer to protect him and do the right thing. After all Hannah has been missing for days now and he HAD to know about it and that he had seen her.

If anyone I knew about (even if I had never spoken to them) were missing, I would not hesitate to come forward to say what I know. He has let LE spend thousands of hours looking for her and finally targeting him. If he is innocent then the situation he is is in now is all of his own making by simply not doing the right thing in first place and speaking out and telling what he knows.

If innocent, he could have been cleared, or at least been cooperative. He makes himself look guilty with his actions since her disappearance.
 

Skigirl

Verified expert in neuroscience
Joined
May 27, 2009
Messages
4,843
Reaction score
6,581
Has anyone seen any news or has there been a press conference announced post-search? Searchers must be pretty close to wrapping up soon?
 

Fireweed

New Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Messages
1,241
Reaction score
21
i don't think anyone believes a crime hasn't been committed. people just look at the facts and realize that there is no concrete evidence to suggest she was abducted. aka no physical evidence that's been released, not even a video of hannah getting into that dude's car. as much as it seems obvious that she was abducted, you can't say that beyond a reasonable doubt.

Yeah of course not beyond a reasonable doubt. I do not think that is the standard here. It is the standard in the court room for obvious reasons, but here I think the standard is something along the lines of "more likely than not". I mean, "beyond a reasonable" doubt is pretty hardcore standard for something like this. We see a drunk girl alone at 1 am who walks off with a man and is never heard from again. Okay, naturally that is not "concrete" and "beyond a reasonable doubt" but to me at least, that is evidence that more likely than not, HG died as a result of her contact with that man.
 

Emaa

New Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2014
Messages
718
Reaction score
1
I don't think this dreads guy -- Jesse "LJ" Matthew -- has anything to do with her disappearance. I don't know why I think that, but I do.
I agree. My gut reaction is this man didn't harm Hannah. Even if it turns out he is innocent, his life is ruined.
 

Inspector Gidget

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2008
Messages
1,367
Reaction score
859
Wow that looks like the WG on his facebook page.Let me know what yall think.His initials are NS
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top