VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #7

Status
Not open for further replies.
I clipped for relevant bit: I didn't mean everything was for show, but that there may be behind the scenes motives to how LE is conducting their information to the public so as to give certain parties either lots of pressure to encourage stupid actions, or possibly have WG think their eyes are ONLY trained on JM to give false sense of security. I'm so creeped by their tag team following that I'm still not convinced they're not in it together.
i

I hadn't thought of that. Though WG seems a lot older than JM. It just really hard for me to discount the idea of WG's involvement. His behavior on the security film was just bizarre--an exaggeration of stalking behavior. It can't be explained to my satisfaction by the excuse, *Just watching her to see if she needed help.*
 
She sprinted for a few seconds after passing under the bridge
Ok, I'll have to look again. It was hard to see, but what I remember is as she comes into camera view she is walking then sprints.
 
People keep saying that RLM Jr only had some traffic citations. It's true that in Albemarle he had only 15 traffic offenses but he Charlottesville he had three serious charges. Two were nolle'd and one was appealed and went up to the circuit court.

GC09005874-00 MATTHEW, JESSE LEORY; JR 04/22/2010 01:00 PM ASSAULT: (MISDEMEANOR)
GC09005873-00 MATTHEW, JESSE LEORY; JR. 04/22/2010 01:00 PM ATTEMPT - GRND LARCENY: $200+ NOT PERSON
Both occurred on 6/4/2009 both were nolle'd
Note the dyslexic typo on both those charges but it is him DOB 12/14

and this in 2010 which was appealed up to the circuit court on 4/30/2010
GC10001889-00 MATTHEW, JESSE LEROY; JR 04/22/2010 01:00 PM TRESPASS AFTER FORBIDDEN
he was listed as living in Keswick, VA at time of incident 3/17/2010 (That's St Patty's Day, right?)
at circuit court level:
CaseNumber Defendant Charge Hear Date Status
CR10000129-01 MATTHEW, JESSE LEROY; JR TRESPASS AFTER FORBIDDEN 08/12/2010 Trial - Judge With Witness
The appeal was withdrawn in August 2010 he was found guilty and paid fines and fees.
the rest of the charges in C-ville were 7 traffic offenses
adding these two with the 12/14 DOB and typo of MatthewS
GT04005868-00 MATTHEWS, JESSE LEROY; JR 08/05/2004 12:00 AM FAIL TO OBEY TRAFFIC SIGNAL
GT14000741-00 MATTHEWS, JESSE LEROY; JR 02/06/2014 10:30 AM 39/25 SP


So it is more than just traffic infractions.
 
If he dropped her off at the intersection near her apartment, why wouldn't he simply say so. She is missing, and it would be tremendously helpful of he would simply provide all the information he has about their interactions that night. Police can then focus on that area during a search.


We have not heard what, if anything, he has said....

My worry concerning the other assaults is that she is basically right there with a 55 minute gap between the frat party and McGradys, and her text at 1:20 puts her back there.
 
Transcript of Chief Longo's press conference from 9/17/14. Part 1, 0:00-29:42. Cleaned-up verbatim, meaning no crutch words (um, uh, you know) and most false starts eliminated. I'll try to get to the rest before the weekend's done.

What can I say, there was no action around here on a Saturday night. :waiting:
 

Attachments

  • Part1HannahGrahamChiefLongopressconference9-17-14.pdf
    252.5 KB · Views: 32
[h=1]Two UVA students assaulted same weekend as Graham's disappearance[/h]Two University of Virginia students were sexually assaulted near Wertland Street the weekend of Hannah Graham's disappearance from the Downtown Mall, according to UVa police.
<>
The assaults have not, at this time, been connected to Graham's disappearance.

bbm;
http://www.tricities.com/news/article_78d7ccc4-4034-11e4-a63b-001a4bcf6878.html

The text that allegedly places her in this area; what if she witnessed something happening?
 
"WG" was a cop or CI. I can almost guarantee it. It's quite clear where LE is headed with this case, and for good reason. They're not going to "trick" WG by naming - QUITE CLEARLY AND PUBLICLY- another POI. That's all kinds of reasonable doubt, and WG's defense attorney would eat that for breakfast if they did that. This isn't Law and Order or Suits. There is no 'twist' or 'game' here. Fact is, the evidence and circumstances lead to dreads and no one else. Utterly baffles me that some folks can still cling to the idea that WG is involved. Just. Baffled. IMO.

I absolutely do not think LE is using JM as a "front" to trick WG (or another person if it's someone else) off into not thinking that he's involved.

There's no way they could have gotten a warrant and named him a POI purely to trick someone or lead someone into being safe. They clearly thought (or at least initially) and knew enough to show enough evidence to get the warrant (and then to name him as a POI) at least initially.

But I do think it's possible that they MAY not be convinced WG (or someone else) is completely ruled out and entirely uninvolved and are just letting the heat (publicly) remain on JM and aren't emphasizing or doing much discussion of any extent to which they could still be investigation WG (or others)

I'm sure as has been raised here, they've had to look at the possibility of if WG (or someone else) could have been working with JM, as I'm sure if as many WSers have considered that possibility (at least briefly) at some point as we've seen, LE has as well.

Some have questioned if it's too far-fetched to think JM really was (to some degree) trying to help her, since he was actually behind both WG and Hannah and then overtook WG in a very short distance and caught up with Hannah, and then if perhaps WG (or someone else) did something if she and JM really hadn't left together.

No matter to what degree anyone thinks that should or should not be taken into consideration as a possibility scenario, I'd think that they'd at least have to really have considered if it DID play out along those lines.

After all, based on what IS seen on video, a possible slight tweak to that scenario could easily actually involve both.

Person 1 (in this case WG) follows Hannah. Person 2 (in this case JM) suddenly comes up from behind, points out she's being followed (by indicating the other person - WG) and offers to "help" her get away, but is really leading her into danger rather than out of it. And then after "helping" briefly (walking with her, leading her into a nicer bar, etc.) has gained her trust and then the two guys work together from there somehow (meeting up somewhere or something)

I'm not saying I think WG is involved. Not at all. I'm not convinced on that either way

But based on what I've seen or read at this point, I think they would clear him publicly if they 100% were convinced they could, especially since water cooler and online discussion seems to indicate there's a healthy corner of people who can't shake the oddities of what they saw or have heard about WG's presence in the area that night and question it or still have it causing some degree of pause about it.
 
Again the refocus is in a 50K town/city where the university is the main source of revenue, what do you think the leverage/pressure is on Longo from the state capital and the university president is to get this situation tamped down/solved? People across the country are already bringing up references to the Route 29 disappearances and rightfully so.
 
We have not heard what, if anything, he has said....


My worry concerning the other assaults is that she is basically right there with a 55 minute gap between the frat party and McGradys, and her text at 1:20 puts her back there.

Yep same thoughts
 
If she thought that she was on Main, heading towards her apartment, when she was actually on Preston, heading towards the mall and Tempo, she was completely disoriented. If she told JM, or the wrong person, that she was lost and looking for a party, she was in trouble.

"Police detective James Mooney said that in her text messages to friends, Graham indicated that she was lost and disoriented, at one point saying she was on Main Street when she actually was on Preston Avenue. Graham also indicated that she believed she was walking back toward her home when she was actually headed the opposite way, authorities said. She also texted friends asking for someone to come find her after she realized she was lost."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...25aab8-4001-11e4-b03f-de718edeb92f_story.html

Hmmm how do they know she was on Preston?

And this is the first time I've been kinda annoyed at the friends. I don't BLAME them, because they were probably intoxicated and sending one of them alone to find Hannah would have been a bad idea. But I do find it exhausting that young women don't seem to protect each other very well.
 
The text that allegedly places her in this area; what if she witnessed something happening?

her text at 1:20 puts her back there. (either in her mind or physically)

Something bad happened to her in that area, imo...

eta: in the CCTV of McGrady's, she keeps messing with her pant waist
(and 2 in a black car watch her and then slowly drive away.)
 
Agreed.

First...looking back to my experiences in college and those of my own grown children -- my roommates weren't the people who I hung out with, so there is a really good chance that her roommates never knew of the "I'm lost" texts. For them not to be concerned about her whereabouts until they heard from her parents isn't that strange to me.

Second...it was not all that uncommon for us to pass like ships in the night. I had one roommate who was a morning person and another who rarely rolled out of bed before noon -- and for us not to see one of them for a day at a time wasn't that rare. One might be sleeping over at a boyfriend's, away for a weekend with friends, have "hooked up" with some guy, been too drunk to drive home and crashed on a friend's sofa, etc. They are roommates, not chaperones, parents, or guardians. There is no requirement or expectation to check in with them and to tell them your whereabouts.

If someone wasn't around, you might say, "Wasn't she going to..." or "I think this might be the weekend that she..." and we didn't know. We were just guessing.

Maybe that's just me, though, because I grew up in another era. However, I didn't talk to my parents every day when I was in college...and neither did my kids call me every day. Nor did any of my friends. Again, that was a different time and I know that parents today text their kids constantly (even while their kids are in class in HS and MS, believe it or not!)
Actually, things haven't changed much. I have children in college and you just described their lives. The thing I have drilled into their heads since they were in high school is to never go off by yourself and never allow a friend to go off alone either when they are out. Having said that, at this age they think they are invincible, that this will never happen to them, that they are safe.

IMO, not much of what Hannah did that night is out of the ordinary other than going into a bar with a man twice her age. I'm surprised at that, regardless of how much she had to drink. I am curious about how much she had to drink inside the bar, though, and I'm sure they are interviewing employees as we speak. Also, it's entirely possible he dropped something in her drink while they were there. I will say that the fact that she was ambulatory and running prior to entering the bar says a lot. From watching the video, she doesn't appear to be sloppy drunk. So I think she knew what she was doing prior to entering the bar but I'm not sure she did before she left.

Has it been determined what she was doing in the downtown mall? My first thought is that she was looking for an ATM. It's an odd place for her to be that late at night unless she was looking for a way into a bar or looking for friends. She was definitely on a mission, though, because she was walking very determinedly.
 
People keep saying that RLM Jr only had some traffic citations. It's true that in Albemarle he had only 15 traffic offenses but he Charlottesville he had three serious charges. Two were nolle'd and one was appealed and went up to the circuit court.

GC09005874-00 MATTHEW, JESSE LEORY; JR 04/22/2010 01:00 PM ASSAULT: (MISDEMEANOR)
GC09005873-00 MATTHEW, JESSE LEORY; JR. 04/22/2010 01:00 PM ATTEMPT - GRND LARCENY: $200+ NOT PERSON
Both occurred on 6/4/2009 both were nolle'd
Note the dyslexic typo on both those charges but it is him DOB 12/14

Nolle prosequi. Meaning charges dropped.
 
Hmmm how do they know she was on Preston?

We know she was on Preston Ave. because McGrady's is on Preston and so is the Shell gas station. She seemed to be walking up and down Preston because the McGrady's video shows her walking on Preston then she turns around at McGradys and walks the opposite way down Preston.
 
The text that allegedly places her in this area; what if she witnessed something happening?

IIRC, Capt Pleasants with the CPD, has stated that the 1:20am text was not correct. He believes that it could have been an autocorrect error. So, Hannah was not at 14th and Wertland when she sent that last text, imo.
I do find it suspicious that earlier she was in the same area where assaults occurred, though. Hmmm.
Makes me wonder. :thinking:
 
her text at 1:20 puts her back there. (either in her mind or physically)

Something bad happened to her in that area, imo...

eta: in the CCTV of McGrady's, she keeps messing with her pant waist
(and 2 in a black car watch her and then slowly drive away.)

I think she was actually holding her lower back because it was probably sore form all the walking. Same thing happens to me.
 
Again just for the sake of keeping focus - a woman was beaten unconscious and raped less than a block from HG's apartment. Why is her story any less important and why do you think Longo wants to keep these incidences separate?

This article - especially the snippet below - about the assaults is interesting. http://www.tricities.com/news/article_78d7ccc4-4034-11e4-a63b-001a4bcf6878.html

It doesn't state either way if either were beaten. It ONLY says that one was found unconscious.

In other words, it doesn't seem to rule out if that victim was actually unconscious because of drugs or alcohol or something other than a possible assault.

And while the title and article say BOTH were sexually assaulted, the quotes actually ONLY specifies the first one was actually a confirmed sexual assault as well.

The direct quote from Gibson (UVA police) in the email sent about what happened (based on info he was given from city police) definitively states the second was a "possible sexual assault" (underlined below).

In fact, with the phrasing "the circumstances regarding her injuries are unclear" it almost seems like that statement wasn't even definitively saying she was assaulted in any form. :waitasec:

I wonder if that meant it appeared she was perhaps unconscious because of being under the influence of something and could have even sustained whatever injuries she did from falling or something, and weren't completely sure anyone else was involved?

Or if it really was supposed to be more along the lines of only if there was a sexual assault component not having been determined yet at that point, and that the "circumstances regarding her injuries are unclear" portion was solely related to that and not questioning if any of what happened with her was assault of some sort at that point in time?

"The first incident involves a female UVa student who reported being sexually assaulted near Wertland Street in the early morning hours of Sept. 14," Gibson wrote. "The second incident is believed to have occurred in the 200 block of 15th Street NW during the early morning hours of Sept. 15."

Gibson wrote that police "discovered an unconscious female who is a local resident. The circumstances regarding her injuries are unclear and are being investigated as a possible sexual assault."
 
The text that allegedly places her in this area; what if she witnessed something happening?

I read one vicious beating occurred at 1:30 AM that same timeframe as HG's phone goes dead. Was it male that was beating at that time and the two sexual assaults coming on sat/sun AM and sun/mon AM?
 
Posted 9:52 am, September 17, 2014

Search teams originally looked through specific parts of Charlottesville on Monday after they read a text that the second-year University of Virginia student sent at 1:20 a.m., which stated that she was lost near 14[SUP]th[/SUP] and Wertland Streets, WTVR reported.
Now investigators think she may not have been in that area at all.

&#8220;We don&#8217;t know whether it was auto correct on her phone or she just typed it in wrong, we have no idea,&#8221; Police Capt. Gary Pleasants said.

Police are now working with the Federal Bureau of Investigations to retrieve phone data that might show where that text was sent from."
http://myfox8.com/2014/09/17/university-of-virginia-student-hannah-grahams-last-text-likely-incorrect-police-say/


FBI has had time to retrieve phone data... but no word on where it was sent from AFAIK...
 
We know she was on Preston Ave. because McGrady's is on Preston and so is the Shell gas station. She seemed to be walking up and down Preston because the McGrady's video shows her walking on Preston then she turns around at McGradys and walks the opposite way down Preston.
Right but do we know she was never on Main? Or that she was on Preston when she thought she was on Main? (I've never been there so I'm having a hard time visualizing!) :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
94
Guests online
802
Total visitors
896

Forum statistics

Threads
589,927
Messages
17,927,740
Members
228,002
Latest member
zipperoni
Back
Top