VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #9

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Bill2013

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They seem to be very quiet about the two rapes- both occurring not more than a couple blocks from where Hannah was partying. They usually give a description of the suspect-- not the case with these cases.
 

bakerlady

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Jmm124567 I added to your map. IF Hannah was walking around for an hour, especially if she was on Main St, would there be video evidence? Do businesses on Main St have cameras? There has to be video of her somewhere in that mystery hour. Unless she was in someone's car or home....

D5nLjPI.png
 

leah

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All they want to do is talk to him.
they never said he was suspect.

This man (if he had nothing at all to do with this) Can give LE some info on her state of mind why she was there possibly
and where he left her.
His evasiveness has made his situation worse.... Its his own doing no one elses.

Actually I think if LE thought he had nothing at all to do with this would leave him alone...
All JMO

And then at the same time, the lawyer he spoke with on Saturday probably told him not to talk. If he talks, he gets into trouble, if he doesn't talk he gets into trouble, maybe that is how he feels? I don't know what to think about this guy anymore, just waiting for the forensics, and where this goes next.
 

achilton1987

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I think she was walking around lost that whole time from 11:50 onward. I think this is a good theory:

I think this is the general route that Hannah walked. I think Hannah was looking for a bar and was suppose to meet people there. I think this due to her behavior at McGrady's and that she was mainly walking on main roads, if she was looking for a house party she would be on the side streets

-She walks down Main St. then cuts over to Preston Ave

-She walks up Preston Ave. to McGrady's bar. On McGrady's surveillance video she first walks up to the patio/deck and looks to be staring through the railings to see if she see's anybody she recognizes then she walks around it to the entrance of the bar and it appears that she is denied entry by the bouncer. She then walks away from McGrady's and as she is walking away she turns around in the street for a few seconds and stares at McGrady's as if she is thinking to herself "that could be the bar" and then continues walking down Preston Ave. in the opposite direction she was originally walking


-She has walked the main roads in the area and hasn't found the bar so she probably figures they must be in the outdoor mall so she walks down Preston Ave. to the outdoor mall

View attachment 59617

BBM- I dont think she turned into the McGrady Entrance. If you zoom in with Google Maps it looks like a doorway for the other business next door. The entrance is on the other side of the patio.
 

Topcat

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I'm not LE but I would think LE would cross JM off the list and continue with investigation. Could he sue? I'm not a lawyer but I would think he would have to show some damages and not sure how far he could go with that.

anybody can sue but does he have a case? I don't think so, he would have to prove LE knowingly and Intentionally (Malice) caused him harm(economically,psychologically etc) without cause.
 

eileenhawkeye

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I have seen many posts that say he must have lawyers lining up to represent him. Maybe that is true, but it does seem very premature. The Cooper Harris case got more coverage than this one has, and the media circus lasted about 2 weeks. While the trial might get lots of coverage, it is obvious that the case will be very quiet until then. So if Ross’s lawyer signed up, thinking that it was the new Anthony case, with months of coverage on HLN, it didn't really work out. His lawyer barely talks to the media, and doesn't seem to be after the spotlight though.

I do not believe lawyers ever truly work pro-bono. If they sign up for a case for free, it means they expect to get money and publicity from it. For instance, Anthony got $250k+ from ABC which was used to pay her legal fees and Zimmerman got a similar amount from supporters for his lawyer. Also, look at Baez…Pro-bono doesn’t always mean prestigious lol.

I don’t know how anyone can say with confidence, that the lawyer(s) will get book deals, that JM will be paid a ton of money to talk about the case, that the trial will be huge news, that the case will still be a big story if it goes unsolved, etc. Those would be the reasons why lots of lawyers would want to take on the case pro-bono. I have seen many high-profile cases and the ones where the above are true for them, is maybe 1 or 2 a year.
 

razzledazzle

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Didn't JM tell LE that they had a couple of drinks then went their separate ways? It seems to me that's not what Longo wanted to hear so he's,imo, putting public pressure on Matthews. Now before anybody jumps on my case ,we don't know what other info Longo has that might disprove what Matthews had told him.
This also came to mind , is it possible that by making Matthews a POI ,all the focus will be on him and the public(esp UVA students) are being put at ease that an unknown predator is not on the loose?

Respectfully, I'm pretty sure that Matthews didn't tell that to police, but to his grandmother. The Daily Mail, UK reported that the grandmother told them that Matthews told her that they had drinks and parted ways. I don't think Matthews has spoken on the record to police.
 

Cramoisy

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They do not have video of HG and JM after Tempo

They have eyewitnesses who saw them leave Tempo

Police said they have video of JM car leaving the area but they can't tell if HG is in it, that seems to be why Longo has twice pleaded with the public that if they saw her in his car they should tell police

I just checked the PC video again and they did say they have footage of them leaving Tempo. If you want to check it's mentioned towards the end of the PC when they were taking questions and Longo referred it to the other cop to answer.
 

katiewonders

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OK, you just don't want him brought into the police station on outstanding warrants where he could choose to exercise his right to remain silent and his right to have his attorney present. I understand. Me? I'd drop that dime. BBM



Of course, I want JM to talk to the police, but it's his Constitutional right to remain silent. I don't want him brought in on unrelated, trumped-up charges.
 

WhitegateGirl

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Don't know which JM it was but wanted to point something out about the indecent exposure charges. Both of them seem to have a lot of charges related to drinking. The indecent exposure charge is probably from peeing in public. It is pretty common among men when they are drinking. I wouldn't read too much into that charge.

It's disturbing how these stories are getting repeated here without proper vetting--not blaming you (at least you pointed out your uncertainty as to which JM it was) or any other one poster, just saying that the energy on one side or another sort of builds up and unclear or unsubstantiated stories take on the appearance of fact. An earlier exchange here this morning on the same subject seemed to clarify that from the DOB on both arrest reports, it had to be his FATHER, not him, iirc. It seems important to keep these details clear and not pile on with unsubstantiated accusations of this POI the police haven't got enough evidence on yet to arrest.
 

random989898

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In my opinion, LE were onto JM well before they even released the surveillance video. That is why they chose to cut the video the way they did, rather than right before Hannah walks into the frame. They wanted to make sure everyone saw a close up of JM so they created the clip to start with him high fiving the women and walking right in front of the camera. They were already well aware he crossed over and caught up to Hannah. I am sure they already knew by then who he was as well. They just wanted to get any other info they could from other witnesses who might have seen him or come into contact with him that night.

Police also have many of the texts between Hannah and her friends from that night (I am sure friends would have turned them over). There may be lots of info in those texts. If Hannah and JM sat in Tempo for 20 minutes, I am sure she was texting her friends throughout. I work at a university and most of the girls text all time, they text during class, while walking, while eating, while drinking, even while sitting at a table talking with each other. She may have sent a text saying - nevermind on the lost thing or coming to get me, I think I have a ride, guy here at the bar is going to drive me over. (That is a total hypothetical - just saying police know what the conversations were that may have led them to JM.)

I also remember reading that police said they HAD talked to JM but wanted to talk to him again. We have no idea what was said during that initial conversation or how long it was. We have had zero information from JM about anything he has said or done. DailyMail saying grandma said that mom said that JM said....absolutely meaningless. I completely understand JM lawyering up and not talking anymore. He has probably known for awhile that the police suspect him.

I also don't think that JM sauntered up to Hannah and sweettalked her into having a drink at a bar. Hannah has been walking around lost, confused or trying to find someone/something for over an hour and a half at this point. That isn't the frame of mind, drunk or not, to want to sit down and have a drink in an upscale bar, no matter how cute the guy is or how good his pick up line was. I am sure by then she was tired and just wanted to get back to her friends, party or whatever destination she had in mind. I am guessing they ended up in Tempo because either JM knew someone who worked there, there was an offer of help, a need to use the bathroom etc. JM may have bought himself a drink while Hannah was in the bathroom. Then maybe he bought her one while he finished his. It could have been a coke, a water, a beer - who knows. I can imagine she was in a rush to get out of there and get to where she was going and I am sure she was texting throughout.

I think LE has released about 1% of what they know and I think I believe about 1% of what they have said. I don't know if they are doing a fantastic job or a terrible job but they obviously have a plan they are executing in what they release and how they release it. I have no idea what happened to Hannah or JM's guilt or innocence but I don't think the theatrics of the press conference are helpful either way. If he is innocent - a huge mess and if he is guilty, kind of compromises the case (unless they have a smoking gun of a body with his DNA on it)
 

Topcat

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First time poster, long time reader. Just wanted to say that the list of car related offenses didn't jump out to me at all or indicate "disrespect for authority" as someone said. It looks pretty on par for someone living in a low income situation. You dont have the money to fix up or buy a nicer car. One it fails inspection you are faced with not being able to get to work (or get paid) or drive it anyway and the citations start piling on. After so many it becomes more of a problem but what are you going to do? Good jobs like his for people without college degrees aren't plentiful and newer cars aren't always an option. Just my two cents.

My hunch is that he isn't involved more than the sketchiness of buying her a drink. And I would imagine his family has told him to not speak out of distrust of the police. JMO.
and not keeping court dates? basically ignoring all citations? I get your point just don't agree with it..
 

cady

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It's my opinion that is what has happened, it's my opinion that is why longo was as aggravated as he was yesterday, they have nothing on him.

It's possible that students and businesses are in CYA mode about what they saw because of underage drinking. If Longo could promise no charges and anonymity, maybe he would get the information he needs. JMO
 

Just K

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BTW the indecent exposure charge was for dad, not JM Jr.
Doesn't seem to matter how many times or ways the most updated and accurate list of JLM Jr's arrest records, Charlottesville and Albemarle County, are posted, people don't seem to see the updated list.

The same with the question re: video of JLM Jr and HEG on video (THEY HAVE VIDEO per 9/21/2014 Press Conference) after TEMPO.
 

Bill2013

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This a good point. You show that she may have initially walked to the mall down mainstreet. Then came back to the pub on Grady , then headed back to mall. I always assumed she got lost in the page street/ 10 th ave maze , came out on Preston and walked west to the pub.
 

distracted

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She was not just a little lost. She was way, way lost, and the thought is that she was on something, her mind was not working well. She was on the opposite side of where she lived from where she wanted to be--she was that far off. She is a UVA student who likely got an off campus apt for the first time this year, and didn't have her bearing straight. Went off to a party and went altogether the wrong direction with no idea where to go. Her path is all wrong. Her friends were busy socializing and doing whatever at the party so no telling if they even heard her call or text. Last text was at 1:20 AM from what LE has said (though not 100% that the time is exact, as texts can sometimes not go through right away) and all it said was that she was at the intersection of two streets, and that info apparently was not correct from what LE could get from cell phone data. Who she was with, on foot, or in a car when she made that text, has not been released. Don't know where LE think she was when she made the text--I believe they do have an idea where that was. The time is very close to when she left Tempo, I believe.

She did not ask for help or directions from what video footage shows. Likely she did not want to call campus security or police, or even approach someone of authority because they might call the police, and she seemed to be either drunk or on something and she is underage. If such authorities came to her, they would likely notice this, ask for id and she could be in trouble Have seen this around universities. She really should have found a high profile spot like a gas station , called everyone she knew till she got someone and asked if someone could come get her.

My son got an SOS call from a friend once in such a situation that was highly charged--girl was in terrible state of mind, angry at boyfriend who was sons friend. I called the police and her parents immediately rather than let him go charging out here. Parents were not extolling their daughter's virtues after that, but she was taken home safely with loved ones right thre. If a passing car had picked her up, with an evil person in it, the story could have had a different ending. Or if my son had gone there, taken her to her home or to a place she wanted to go, and then she disappeared, it could have been a complicated situation for her and him.

But Hannah Graham was totally lost on the whole wrong side of town from where she wanted to be. She was waaay off and could not run back anywhere because she didn't know where anything was from where she found herself. She was very lost.

See, I'm not so sure. I think she knew where she was. I don't think she could find the bar she was looking for, which would explain why she walked all over the place. I think she thought she could find it and didn't want to give up and go home. That makes so much more sense to me, especially if it was a boy she was meeting up with.

And having looked at the map of just how far she walked and over the length of time she walked, I would be very surprised if she was still intoxicated by the time she reached the downtown mall.
 

Skigirl

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QUOTE: Okay so JM had court on 9/18 for "driving after being declared a habitual offender" - he was found guilty but given 90 days in jail with all 90 suspended........ if he was really a suspect in this case why didn't the judge give him at least 4 days in jail for Drive - H.O.??

Had not seen/read this...if this is truly his offense, and previous ones, would it not have affected his job? Or am I incorrect about his job being a medical transporter?

He is a medical transporter who wheels patients to and from surgeries in the hospital. Not in a an ambulance or other vehicle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

TheTruthWillOut

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They definitely have video of them leaving the restaurant together. A reporter asked this question at the PC yesterday as well as if they had footage of them getting in the car together and Mooney? (the other cop) answered. He said he wasn't going to talk about the vehicle at all but said they have footage of them leaving the restaurant together.

It wasn't worded as "Video leaving the restaurant together". It was: "We do have them together after they left Tempo restaurant, so he's still with her at that time"

Not sure but I believe Tempo doesn't have cameras inside or out? So I take what he said above to mean they have footage from another location at a time after they know they left Tempo.
 

achilton1987

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Jmm124567 I added to your map. IF Hannah was walking around for an hour, especially if she was on Main St, would there be video evidence? Do businesses on Main St have cameras? There has to be video of her somewhere in that mystery hour. Unless she was in someone's car or home....

View attachment 59618

This is a good map and understanding of how she might have gotten to McGradys. Maybe McGradys was where she realized she was going the wrong way and turned around to go towards the Mall?
 

Kas80

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As someone related to someone who recently went through an unpleasant experience with LEO, you can be entirely honest and forthcoming about a situation and if they believe something different from what you are saying there is nothing you can do. At some point you realize, I am being set-up/railroaded and there is zero I can say or do to get myself out of this situation. Many people (if they are smart) clam up, lawyer up and shut their mouth. Maybe that's what happened. He have what he knew- found her, took her to tempo, they left and went their separate ways but they dont believe him. He has nothing else he can add but they are determined he does. I think most would do exactly what he is right now.
 
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