VA - Michael Margaret, 21, & Donna Hall, 18, Richmond, 17 Aug 1984

Discussion in 'Cold Cases' started by Fatback, Sep 22, 2005.

  1. Fatback

    Fatback New Member

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    Hall-Margaret Homicide Synopsis: On August 21, 1984,the bodies of Michael Margaret, age 21, and Donna Hall, age 18, were found in a wooded area approximately 300 yards southwest of the Kings Crossing Apartment Complex in the 10,000 block of Patterson Avenue near Gaskins Road. Both victims died of multiple stab wounds. They were last seen alive on Friday night August 17, 1984. A $15,000 reward has been offered in this case. If you have any information concerning these murders, please contact the Homicide Unit at (804) 501-4862 or (804) 501-5000.
     
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  3. Perry

    Perry Inactive

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    They were camping behind Kings Crossing apartments at the time of the murder. Donna Hall was my babysitter and a close friend of my older brother. He was the last know person to see them alive. He was questioned by police and released. Everyone in thier circle of friends knows who did it but, there was never any proof.

    Mike and Donna were very sweet people. I have felt terribly for there parents for all this time. I would love to see this case resolved.
     
  4. Fatback

    Fatback New Member

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    The story I remember hearing was that they were taking off for wherever because of a drug debt. And yes, I also have heard that that a certain someone did it but there was lack of evidence. I've always feltl like there had to be more people involved. One story was of them being drugged and taken to the field behind the apartments where they were found etc.....
     
  5. ssnva1

    ssnva1 New Member

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    It just so happens that my new neighbor is a retired Henrico county violent crimes detective. I had the pleasure of sitting outside with him earlier today for about 3 hours listening to his stories. I was intrigued. I could have talked to him forever. I asked him if he had any cases that haunted him, or one case you still think about and he said, " Michael Margaret and Donna.!!"


    Bumping for Michael and Donna.
     
  6. Vabrownid1

    Vabrownid1 New Member

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  7. truthseeker13

    truthseeker13 New Member

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    hello, my name is andy lucas. I now live in Wilmington, nc and my brother is married to Allyson, mikes sister. ever since I heard about this I was shocked and wanted to find out the real deal. sounds like some people know a name or two about who did this violent murder.. please let me know who this is and I will be grateful. my cell is <modsnip>. my email is liljabberjaww@yahoo.com. I am serious and want to help my sister in law Allyson and her brother scott get some resolution. please respond if u know anything... I am awaiting anyones response. andy.
     
  8. knowthings

    knowthings New Member

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    This is getting much deserved publicity now, I hope these people are brought to justice. It sounds as if Michael put up one heck of a fight and with the blood evidence found, which was neither of the victims, there was at least one injured person who had to have been seen by somebody!! Who came into some money around that time? Who acted strangely amongst their friends and acquaintances, nervous, depressed, distant? Did anyone suddenly quit their job or move away, this was a very gruesome crime, somebody, whether a witness or participant must be riddled with guilt and haunted by nightmares, were there any suicides around this time or later? Anyone admitted to a psychiatric hospital, rehab or even out of the blue started to attend church, all of these things should be considerered because guilt will eat away at the soul, no amount of drugs will take away such a horrific scenario. They have a blood sample I am sure it would have been run through the DNA database so this person must not have served time for other crimes, I will assume they are alive and probably TRYING to live a normal life because if they were dead I think people would be more likely to offer up info. JMO.
     
  9. TallCoolOne

    TallCoolOne Registered Lurker

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    Keeping the faith that the guilty party will not go unpunished. How unfair that they have gotten away with this for 30 years. Those are the ones I really like to see solved. By now they are probably feeling pretty confident they got away with this.
     
  10. knowthings

    knowthings New Member

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    This crime is a little baffling, I feel as if it was staged to look like it was drug related, throat slashing, stabbing, if they got their money why do all this, seems very personal to be this brutal, what did they know?
     
  11. knowthings

    knowthings New Member

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  12. ssnva1

    ssnva1 New Member

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  13. Vabrownid1

    Vabrownid1 New Member

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    Bumping for Michael and Donna
     
  14. :+:MrTT:+:

    :+:MrTT:+: Cold Case Files

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    http://wtvr.com/2015/07/23/people-sharing-tips-about-1984-murder-of-young-couple-in-west-end-woods/

    16 minute video of the crime including crime scene. About three quarters of the way down on the left in a small video player. Very good video!!!

    Latest figure is that 31.40% of Mexicans have blood type A. Thats A+. In the video they just said A. Mexican drug runners, cartel members, associates would not be uncommon for them to carry and know how to use knifes in USA back in those days. More likely to carry knife than gun to kill............They went there to purchase again. Not sure if it was the same ones, or different ones showed up. But for some reason no drugs were sold, and both were killed. Perhaps they tested the cocaine or what ever they were going to buy and it tested as being fake dope. Which lead to an argument and fight insured and both were killed with knifes. The rear of the vehicle was open and so was the passenger side door. The driver could have gotten out and opened the back of the jeep and the girl got out of the passenger side to walk around to the back of the jeep to watch the transaction. The guy opened the bag/suitcase containing the drugs and did some tests and discovered they were going to be ripped off.

    The above is pure speculation and assumptions based on what I seen in the video. A possible theory.

    But then again, a blanket was found laying outside and there were blood drops of three kinds inside the vehicle. So maybe the back was raised to retrieve a blanket and they at some point were laying outside waiting for someone to arrive since it was a hott summer night.

    They say they have DNA! And can run a check through the database to eliminate a possible suspect.
    Does anyone know if a DNA database exist in Mexico/Puerto Rico that they can run that DNA to see if there is a match??
    Perhaps they did.

    Another chance is that someone knew they were going to be there with thousands of dollars on them and got there before the dealer to rob and steal and killed them for the money.

    Or a small theory that someone happened upon them by chance and just robbed and killed them.

    From all indications watching the video several times, you would think the crime occurred there. But there was a blanket found soaked in blood, but neither victim was found laying on the blanket. Which could mean they were killed somewhere else and drove there in there own jeep while wrapped inside the blanket and when they arrive on the spot, one of the killers got out the passenger side door and the rear was opened and the bodies removed and then they were place apart from each other but not still in the blanket. But to leave the area after one would think someone had to follow them to the spot so they could then leave the area afterwards.

    Fundraiser............http://wtvr.com/2015/08/14/donna-hall-and-mike-margaret-cold-case-murder-fundraiser/

    afterthought...
    If a LEO was here I would ask are we sure they were killed where found? I ask because of that blanket soaked in blood but neither the man or woman was found laying inside the blanket. It was all by itself. Which has me stumped. How do they explain the solo blanket soaked in blood but no body laying on it or wrapped in it???
     
  15. Vabrownid1

    Vabrownid1 New Member

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    :thinking:
    Does anyone know how to go about getting this case in the hands of some TV show like 20/20?
     
  16. Vabrownid1

    Vabrownid1 New Member

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  17. ssnva1

    ssnva1 New Member

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  18. Betty P

    Betty P Active Member

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    Thanks for the link. There's a lot of good information there, a lot of effort put into solving this case. I've been reading all afternoon and evening. From some of the comments, it appears they were recently closing in on a suspect. Is that tstill the case?

    It definitely seems it must have been someone very familiar with the area and known to the victims. The location of the killings was well hidden and seems it would only have been known to someone who lived nearby and/or hung out there. Very interesting it was so close to where Donna lived with her family. LE is doing a great job of continuing to work the case and reminding the public; good for them. The Demerol in their system seems related to their murder and may be a calling card of the killer. IIRC, that wasn't the type of drug young people were using back then, only hard core types. Back then the drugs of choice were MJ, coke and beer, maybe wine coolers.

    I'm still trying to sort through the motive. They had a lot of cash on them, but neither Mike's wallet nor Donna's purse were taken.

    I hope LE is close to an arrest.
     
  19. ssnva1

    ssnva1 New Member

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    Thank you for taking the time to research this case!! Yes, the FB page has a TON of good info but I know Websleuths can get this case some much needed attention. Not to mention if we combine the information we have from the FB page (and those who contribute) with the experts here, I have no doubt that we can bring some closure to this case. I'm really hoping we can get some old timers here to take a look and give us some feedback and opinions. Thank you again!
     
  20. Betty P

    Betty P Active Member

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    Thanks for all the work. Anyone interested should go to the Facebook link for a lot of case information, including stills of the LE video from the crime scene. Though the video is vintage 1984, most of it is still pretty clear.

    This link is helpful in analyzing spots. It's basic, but good.

    http://science.howstuffworks.com/bloodstain-pattern-analysis3.htm

    I was looking at the photos of blood spatter/drops inside the Jeep. From the photos made public, it doesn't appear there is a lot of blood inside it, but it does provide some info. The photo of the elongated blood spots on the outer side of the passenger seat have that "tail" on them, possibly indicating they came from someone who was stabbed/cut while sitting in the seat. That seems to match with a hard to find autopsy diagram of DH, who had a few stab wounds on her right chest area. Because there isn't much blood on the seat, seems she would have fallen or gotten out on her own or been pulled from the Jeep.

    This is where it becomes difficult because LE and news media reported she had significant levels of Demerol in her system.

    There is also some blood spatter on the floor and seat on the driver's side. Again, not much, indicating MM was attacked and quickly got out, probably beginning his fight with the attacker(s).

    Blood spatter in the rear cargo area of the Jeep interior was mostly on the back of the passenger seat, but possibly some on the driver's side. Photos are not clear, it's difficult to tell if there were any drops on the luggage in the cargo area. The back of the passenger seat also has what look to be a few bloody smears, like they were transferred from someone with blood on their hands. Most of the blood droplets on the vertical surface of the back of the p seat are not elongated. Were they flung there from the direction of the back of the jeep? Did more stabbing happen while MM was standing at the rear of the Jeep? Did the attack begin there, perhaps while he was retrieving money or preparing to put drugs into one of the suitcases in the back? IIRC, a news story also said there were many blood spatters on the exterior of the jeep, but it's hard to see from the video/stills. Also not sure from reading the location of the third blood source at the crime scene. Some say inside the Jeep, other sources have said it was outside. Could have been both.

    Figuring out the flow of the crime might help determine the number of attackers.

    JMO, from those blood patterns, it seems the couple were sitting there in the Jeep when it began, probably waiting to meet someone - the drug connection if you follow that theory. This is just my first opinion, it could be all wrong and I might change my mind later. But it seems:

    Perp arrives for meeting, MM & DH are sitting in the Jeep:

    1 Perp approaches one side or the other and begins stabbing. MM responds, jumps out to defend himself, fight moves to rear of the jeep where blood is spattered and so on until death.

    2 Perp approaches, MM sees him, gets out to go to the back of the Jeep to do the transaction. Attack begins there. At some point MM jumps back into the driver's side to escape, leaving blood dripping on floor and seat of the driver's side. If so, he got back out rather quickly as not much blood is there.

    One attacker scenario: If DH was in a Demerol stupor or unconscious, the killer could have attacked and disabled MM first, then went back to the Jeep to attack DH.

    Two attackers: Each could have approached the couple from opposite sides of the Jeep to begin the attack.

    Blanket, beer and cigarettes/butts: Given the timeline in the news media (last seen at a get together around 11:45 and TOD around an hour or two after midnight) the couple was not at the site very long before the attack. Only one empty beer bottle and a couple of cigarette butts. Unknown who handled those, so it could also have been the attacker. Seems unlikely he would have waited around after the deaths, though. The blanket, which belonged to MM, was laying between the Jeep and the bodies. The couple could have been sitting there while waiting for the meeting. I'm still unsure of the position of the Jeep in relation to the trail/road leading up to the scene. Was the Jeep backed into the spot with the front facing the road or the reverse? Was it just MM sitting out there, considering DH's drugged state?

    Again, the presence of Demerol is confusing. It wasn't exactly a recreational drug back in those days. I'm several years older than the victims and was beyond my party years in the early 80's, but only hard core druggies were doing that back then. If that happened at the scene, there would have been more empty bottles or cups around.

    As for deaths occurring elsewhere and bodies transported to the scene - if transported in MM's Jeep, there would have been much more blood inside. JMO, it happened at the death site, which appeared to be a meeting place for a drug transaction.

    All JMO. I have more questions:

    Was it ever determined if MM's knife was at the scene? It was said he had one he used for outdoor activities, etc.

    Were DH's shoes around anywhere? On the floorboard? In a suitcase?

    Of the friends of the couple who are still following this case, were any of them at the party/get together that the couple attended before their death? Was there more than one party they attended that night? Were any of those parties at the King's Crossing apartment complex adjacent to the death scene?

    Thanks! Great work by all those helping to keep this case active! Mods would probably be ok with you posting the stills from the video here and some of the great maps you came up with. They don't mind links to "In Memory of" or "Justice For" FB pages, but they are careful that unfounded rumors sometimes posted there don't make their way over to WS. You can PM them with any questions you have.

    ETA: Though everyone probably already knows, the killer(s) not only would have been wounded that night (LE said possibly hand, face, arm wounds) they would have been literally covered in blood. As for any noises, screams for help, etc. from the attack, its possible that happened, but near a big field and busy apartment complex on a Friday night, if anyone heard anything they may have ignored it or written it off to someone having a party.

    ETA 2: Also seems this person, if Demerol was administered before hand, knew a lot about them, their plans that night, their social life, habits, etc. Also lived nearby or knew the area of the death scene really well, unless they were given specific directions by MM. Seems odd he would have chosen that spot, if he chose it.

    ETA 3: To the people who were friends with MM & DH, where and from whom did people get their drugs (cocaine, MJ, pills, etc) back then? I'm guessing there weren't a lot of hard drug dealers in the suburbs of Richmond back then. Even today you read about suburban partiers getting into trouble when going into the big city to buy drugs. Was that how it was done back then? Or were there local dealers who were supplied by big dealers from the city? Did you go to a party and know which local guy to ask for some drugs or were there people who came in from nearby urban areas to sell? Not trying to pry and don't share if you don't want to. I never knew that stuff myself back in the day and I was pretty social. Pretty clueless, too, I guess, haha.
     
  21. Betty P

    Betty P Active Member

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    16 Things to Know About the Murders of Mike & Donna

    From a 2015 article by the local Henrico/Richmond area tv station

    http://wtvr.com/2015/08/05/16-things-to-know-about-the-brutal-1984-murder-of-a-west-end-couple/

    Two years ago, it seemed they were close to identifying the killer. Does anyone know the status of the DNA testing done on the perp's blood found at the crime scene and recent efforts to compare it to other suspects?
     

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