GUILTY VA - Morgan Young, 21, shot to death, Chesapeake, 2 Jan 2006

Details said:
Hey, I'm not saying it's right, just that in a black humor kind of way, it's a bit of payback for all the people they've annoyed. They aren't much trouble to me - I say no thanks, and shut the door, but my husband is one of the many people too nice to shut the door on someone who keeps talking - I've had to rescue him a few times.


You know what? You are talking about the death of a young man who, because of his sincere beliefs, was willing to give up a couple of years of his life to share his faith with others.

He had a momma who is grieving right now, a daddy, a family. I'm sure they don't appreciate your black humor. Have mercy, details. We're talking about a REAL man here. An unjust death.

I am not mormon, but I live right down the street from a temple, and I have never, not even once, met a missionary who was obnoxious or pushy. If you ask them not to come to your house, they'll honor your wishes.
 
Whenever someone knocks on my door that I don't know or don't want to talk to I just don't answer. Simple as that. I'm not a Mormon but I do admire these young adults for their faith and taking 2 yrs. of their life to try to minister to people. Heck, sometimes I talk to them if I feel like and tell them why I don't want to be a Mormon. Cuz I smoke and drink caffeiine. LOL Sometimes I offer them a drink. This is just me so please don't knock it
 
Details said:
Can't say I would ever encourage my kids to go door to door bothering people either - least of all about religion - that's a private matter - a person will approach someone if they want to learn about a different religion. Girl Scout cookies maybe - only to neighbors we know and talk to.

Yes, of course I'm sorry for the young men and their families. Doesn't mean I like or even tolerate missionaries all that well. If the title was about telemarketers being shot, I'd find that humorous in the same way. It's just like the Darwin awards - dark humor. Finding something funny or ironic in a depressing situation.


I don't think it's very safe - I see them walking around here, on my drive to work every here and there - two guys in white shirts, black pants, nicely dressed. They don't know the area, don't know where it is and isn't safe to go (sad that there are places it isn't safe to go, but true).

Man, I'm sorry I usually just don't respond to posts I don't agree with but your attitude is appalling.
 
Jovin said:
WHAT KIND OF A PERSON ARE YOU? How could you possibly use that phrase in regard to a senseless and uncalled for cold-blooded killing of an innocent young person and the wounding of another!

I am absolutely shocked that anyone could find any type of "humor" in this situation.

AMEN!!!
 
kato said:
Man, I'm sorry I usually just don't respond to posts I don't agree with but your attitude is appalling.


I am afraid that I have to agree......well said Kato
 
Details said:
Which part of my position? That it's a shame, and a rotten thing that they were killed? That I don't like missionaries of any kind coming to my door? Or that I can find an ironic type of black humor in a sad situation?

I've got nothing I'm ashamed of about my position. I don't demand that others see the humor, some people do get black humor, others don't.

It was a simple enough comment, the headline of this thread hit me as a little funny (especially the echos of old stories about Missionaries under attack in the jungles and other 'primitive' areas they went to to convert).

I remember my mom telling me about when she lost a child she'd taken care of in day care for some years. He was walking out to a school bus, and got hit by a car and killed. She was miserable, of course, spent quite some time crying. In the middle of that she had the sudden thought about how relieved he must have been - there was a test that morning, and he wasn't good in school - and she started laughing. You can have both - sorrow and laughter, see the humor even in the worst situation.

Lots of jokes, lots of humorous situations aren't so funny to the people inside of them... ever tell a lawyer joke? Not funny if they were taken as serious threats to the lives of lawyers; but I know many lawyers who even tell, collect, and enjoy lawyer jokes.

There is quite a BIG difference in telling lawyer jokes and this situation.
 
Details said:
I've got nothing I'm ashamed of about my position.
That, in itself, is a pitifully sad statement and not one I'd willingly share about my compassion (or lack of). I still think it's ironic that you claim it's karma when a young man of the Mormon faith is killed. Would you feel that way if he were killed for the color of his skin or his sexual orientation? Just curious how that sort of rationalization works ...
 
Ya know, I think you can all let up on Details now. He/she has said that he/she does not condone this shooting, and is sorry that his dark humor was not appropriate. I believe he probably regrets that he wrote that first post. I agree that it was probably not appropriate, but I think ya all have beaten him up enough now, dont you? I believe he/she would not be at websleuths if he/she did not care. I dont think that anyone that actually takes the time to come here and read and post, is the type of person who would condone any kind of violence against innocent people. I just think enough is enough. I think Details has had his/her :slap: , and we should move on.

Just my opinion :truce:


P.S. One a side note, I think what happened to these 2 young men and is terrible. I do have to agree with Details slightly in that I do not appreciate any religious groups coming to my house to convert me. If I am interested, I will seek you out. I dont like to be mean, but if you try getting rid of them nicely, it does not work. I also watched my neighbors son basically get stolen from his family by a local Morman family. I have watched and listened to this mother cry for 2 years now. I know he was of age and able to make his own desicions, but they literally alienated him from his family. Which by the way, this mother and father, our neighbors are wonderful people! This is not an isolated incident in our community either, I have heard stories and been warned by others, not to let my children get too involved with this Morman family. I do not have a problem with them being Morman, but I do have a problem with someone underminding everything you have taught your own children all these years, and encouraging them to abandon their families. Maybe this is not the norm, but this is what I have personally seen.
 
lostfaith said:
I believe he probably regrets that he wrote that first post.
Why do you believe Details regrets it when s/he said just stated the exact opposite in her post above? (Rhetorical question. No need to answer.)

You know, I've said plenty of really dumb things on this forum but when I'm wrong I will admit it and not try to defend an indefensible position.

One thing we agree on. This thread doesn't deserve anymore of our time.
 
Let's not forget what this thread is supposed to be about. A kid is dead here and another is injured. Let's try to remember that.
 
lostfaith said:
Ya know, I think you can all let up on Details now. He/she has said that he/she does not condone this shooting, and is sorry that his dark humor was not appropriate. I believe he probably regrets that he wrote that first post. I agree that it was probably not appropriate, but I think ya all have beaten him up enough now, dont you? I believe he/she would not be at websleuths if he/she did not care. I dont think that anyone that actually takes the time to come here and read and post, is the type of person who would condone any kind of violence against innocent people. I just think enough is enough. I think Details has had his/her :slap: , and we should move on.

Just my opinion :truce:


P.S. One a side note, I think what happened to these 2 young men and is terrible. I do have to agree with Details slightly in that I do not appreciate any religious groups coming to my house to convert me. If I am interested, I will seek you out. I dont like to be mean, but if you try getting rid of them nicely, it does not work. I also watched my neighbors son basically get stolen from his family by a local Morman family. I have watched and listened to this mother cry for 2 years now. I know he was of age and able to make his own desicions, but they literally alienated him from his family. Which by the way, this mother and father, our neighbors are wonderful people! This is not an isolated incident in our community either, I have heard stories and been warned by others, not to let my children get too involved with this Morman family. I do not have a problem with them being Morman, but I do have a problem with someone underminding everything you have taught your own children all these years, and encouraging them to abandon their families. Maybe this is not the norm, but this is what I have personally seen.

This does not make sense and maybe it was the parents who alienated themselves because of their child's decision to join the LDS church. The church in no shape or form would condone or promote this type of behavior. Part of the most revered teachings of our church is families are forever and the family is the very nucleus of our religion with Jesus Christ our brother being the head. We are NOT a cult who tries to separate people from their former life, family and friends. There has to be way more to this story and I'm sure you are only getting the side of it from the parents. They are probably very upset with their child for joining and have put a lot of pressure and conditions on him and so he may have chosen for now to not be around his parents. When in the long run you should have unconditional love for them. I have a son who has turned extremely anti-Mormon due to one of his friends. This is his best friend in the world. Have I cried? You bet ya! Have I been sick over this. Yup again. Have I denied my son anything that my other children get or treated him differently? Nope. Do I allow his anti-Mormon friend in my home? Yes I do and I hug him and kiss him on the cheek. He admires me but doesn't like my religion. I have to say it is hard and there are times I am so angry at his best friend but my son is 20 and he can make his own decision. I will keep being a good example to him and pray for him... it is all I can do. But I love him to death and I will always have open arms to him and his best friend.
 
Ntegrity said:
Why do you believe Details regrets it when s/he said just stated the exact opposite in her post above? (Rhetorical question. No need to answer.)

You know, I've said plenty of really dumb things on this forum but when I'm wrong I will admit it and not try to defend an indefensible position.

One thing we agree on. This thread doesn't deserve anymore of our time.


I took Details post to mean he is not changing his opinion on how he feels about missionaries going door to door, but that he does not condone any killing of them. I think that Detail is having a hard time putting it into words correctly. I do not think Details is a uncaring person. Just my opionion.

Why do you feel that 1 dead and 1 injured young person doesnt deserve anymore of our time? Or do you mean, the discusion of Details doesnt deserve more time..if that is the case I agree.
 
MrsMush99 said:
Let's not forget what this thread is supposed to be about. A kid is dead here and another is injured. Let's try to remember that.


absolutely, I agree.
 
JDB said:
People The two things My folks taught me along time ago is this
1 Politics
2 Religion
Now with that said . I do feel sorry about this Murder and attempted one..
The Strange part is this weekend I have been raised a SB all my life. In fact my dad was a Pastor. My wife has a sis that is a JW and Her Mother was a Mormon. This weekend we had both Jw and Lds knocking on the door. I just looked at her and said Your side of family has been covered :p
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 
Anngelique said:
This does not make sense and maybe it was the parents who alienated themselves because of their child's decision to join the LDS church. The church in no shape or form would condone or promote this type of behavior. Part of the most revered teachings of our church is families are forever and the family is the very nucleus of our religion with Jesus Christ our brother being the head. We are NOT a cult who tries to separate people from their former life, family and friends. There has to be way more to this story and I'm sure you are only getting the side of it from the parents. They are probably very upset with their child for joining and have put a lot of pressure and conditions on him and so he may have chosen for now to not be around his parents. When in the long run you should have unconditional love for them. I have a son who has turned extremely anti-Mormon due to one of his friends. This is his best friend in the world. Have I cried? You bet ya! Have I been sick over this. Yup again. Have I denied my son anything that my other children get or treated him differently? Nope. Do I allow his anti-Mormon friend in my home? Yes I do and I hug him and kiss him on the cheek. He admires me but doesn't like my religion. I have to say it is hard and there are times I am so angry at his best friend but my son is 20 and he can make his own decision. I will keep being a good example to him and pray for him... it is all I can do. But I love him to death and I will always have open arms to him and his best friend.


Good for you Anngelique! Sounds like you are handling the situation with your son in a very loving way. Yes, I am only hearing one side of the story, I will give you that. But, I have known these people for 15 years, and have watched thier son grow up, know him well. He has changed. Yes, they are very disapointed, but not so much about the religion change. They are Catholic, but very casual about it, not fanatics. They have no problem with him going in a different way regarding religion. What they had deep concerns about is this all started with a girl from this family he dated in high school. Her family started taking him to church and other things...no problem there. He graduated, went away to college and midway through his first year, dropped out and was suddenly going on a mission. This girl stopped dating him as soon as he was hooked. Her parents went to the college to get him and take him out, never informing his parents. They took him to the airport to go on his mission. His parents never even knew any of this until after the fact. We all live in the same very small town, this family only lives 3 blocks away from us and his parents. Yes, his parents are upset! Now he is not getting his education and has no medical insurance. To top it all off, this Morman family also has thier own child that was on mission. Last year thier child was sent home from that mission with some form of Cancer. It has been all over our local paper, they keep having fundraisers for him, cuz he has no insurance. He was not in school and still covered under his parents, and since he was on a mission and not working he had no insurance. Of course this concerns my neighbors, I dont blame them! They have told me that he has told them that his phone calls are limited, I dont know if this is true or if it is something that he is just telling them. I do know that his grandfather died this past summer and his parents went through hell trying to get him home for the funeral. They do love him, and want him in the family. They are good people, trust me on this. He has a brother that is 1 year younger than him, they were very close, he has alienated him too, and his brother is certainly not judging him. I am not saying Morman is a cult, and all Mormans do this. I am just relating what I have observed in 1 situation. There is also another family in town whose child was in school and the same thing went on with this same Morman family helping her quit school and going on a mission. So, that has been what I have observed.

Once again, I commend you on your relationship with your son. You sound like a Mom any child would love to have! :)
 
Ya'll need to back up and lay off of Details. POST ABOUT THE ARTICLE, NOT THE POSTERS. If you've got a problem with a post or a poster, either hit the alert button or put the person on IGNORE.

THIS IS THE ONLY WARNING I'LL GIVE.
 
lostfaith said:
Good for you Anngelique! Sounds like you are handling the situation with your son in a very loving way. Yes, I am only hearing one side of the story, I will give you that. But, I have known these people for 15 years, and have watched thier son grow up, know him well. He has changed. Yes, they are very disapointed, but not so much about the religion change. They are Catholic, but very casual about it, not fanatics. They have no problem with him going in a different way regarding religion. What they had deep concerns about is this all started with a girl from this family he dated in high school. Her family started taking him to church and other things...no problem there. He graduated, went away to college and midway through his first year, dropped out and was suddenly going on a mission. This girl stopped dating him as soon as he was hooked. Her parents went to the college to get him and take him out, never informing his parents. They took him to the airport to go on his mission. His parents never even knew any of this until after the fact. We all live in the same very small town, this family only lives 3 blocks away from us and his parents. Yes, his parents are upset! Now he is not getting his education and has no medical insurance. To top it all off, this Morman family also has thier own child that was on mission. Last year thier child was sent home from that mission with some form of Cancer. It has been all over our local paper, they keep having fundraisers for him, cuz he has no insurance. He was not in school and still covered under his parents, and since he was on a mission and not working he had no insurance. Of course this concerns my neighbors, I dont blame them! They have told me that he has told them that his phone calls are limited, I dont know if this is true or if it is something that he is just telling them. I do know that his grandfather died this past summer and his parents went through hell trying to get him home for the funeral. They do love him, and want him in the family. They are good people, trust me on this. He has a brother that is 1 year younger than him, they were very close, he has alienated him too, and his brother is certainly not judging him. I am not saying Morman is a cult, and all Mormans do this. I am just relating what I have observed in 1 situation. There is also another family in town whose child was in school and the same thing went on with this same Morman family helping her quit school and going on a mission. So, that has been what I have observed.

Once again, I commend you on your relationship with your son. You sound like a Mom any child would love to have! :)
Ths is indeed an odd case which is in ways the exact opposite of "standard"procedures.It is VERY rare for a person to convert to our faith and go straight out on a mission,actually I thought the church had some sort of policy here.The vast majority of missionaries are life long members,who have thru the yrs been groomed by their family for the mission work.It is expected by the church that missionary families save money over the yrs(if possible)to aid the youngster on his future mission.You are hearing the correct phone call story.These young people are not out here to sit on the phone chatting,rather they are to be performing a very valuable task for our faith.Their time is precious,not only do they have hours of mission work to do each week,and hours of coomunity work as well,they also are responsible for their own up keep.The church pays noone to do their laundry,cook their meals,shop,clean their home,etc etc,the youngsters do these things for themselves in amongst the various other duties of their position.I find the illness story a bit biased,in that as a member for over 20 yrs I can not begin to count the number of times our local congegation has took up money and held fund drives for others in our congregation who are ill.We of the morman faith view all mankind as our brother or sister and no member who was true to the teachings of our Father and his Prophets would ever think to shun a brother or sister who needed us.

For the poster who doesn't want to be a morman because they like caffine and smoke......So do a large number of our members.Yes the faith does have what is called "The Words of Wisdom"which do tell us that such things as caffine,tobacco,alcohol are bad for our body and SHOULD be avoided by us.Notice I said should and not MUST BE.The decision to follow or neglect this teaching is the sole discretion of the individual member and the church will in no way attempt to change your decisions against your will.No we won't go to hell if we smoke a cigarette or eat a chocolate bar....and NO the church will not deny you membership or end your membership if you choose to use these products....That is a foolish MYTH started by non members to discredit a faith which they have no F"N clue about.
 
proadvocate said:
Ths is indeed an odd case which is in ways the exact opposite of "standard"procedures.It is VERY rare for a person to convert to our faith and go straight out on a mission,actually I thought the church had some sort of policy here.The vast majority of missionaries are life long members,who have thru the yrs been groomed by their family for the mission work.It is expected by the church that missionary families save money over the yrs(if possible)to aid the youngster on his future mission.You are hearing the correct phone call story.These young people are not out here to sit on the phone chatting,rather they are to be performing a very valuable task for our faith.Their time is precious,not only do they have hours of mission work to do each week,and hours of coomunity work as well,they also are responsible for their own up keep.The church pays noone to do their laundry,cook their meals,shop,clean their home,etc etc,the youngsters do these things for themselves in amongst the various other duties of their position.I find the illness story a bit biased,in that as a member for over 20 yrs I can not begin to count the number of times our local congegation has took up money and held fund drives for others in our congregation who are ill.We of the morman faith view all mankind as our brother or sister and no member who was true to the teachings of our Father and his Prophets would ever think to shun a brother or sister who needed us.

For the poster who doesn't want to be a morman because they like caffine and smoke......So do a large number of our members.Yes the faith does have what is called "The Words of Wisdom"which do tell us that such things as caffine,tobacco,alcohol are bad for our body and SHOULD be avoided by us.Notice I said should and not MUST BE.The decision to follow or neglect this teaching is the sole discretion of the individual member and the church will in no way attempt to change your decisions against your will.No we won't go to hell if we smoke a cigarette or eat a chocolate bar....and NO the church will not deny you membership or end your membership if you choose to use these products....That is a foolish MYTH started by non members to discredit a faith which they have no F"N clue about.


Thanks for replying Proadvocate. This is my last post on this that I will make in public, I do not want to get in trouble for posting off topic.

I dont know what the norm is, but this is indeed what happened. His senior year in H. school he started dating this girl, he graduated, went away to college and dropped out mid semester to go on this mission. I am not sure if he went immediatly after dropping out, or if it took a few months, but it was all relatively quick. All I know is he never came back home before going on this mission. So, no grooming for years or saving up.

What you said about the phone calls make sense, they are there to work not chat. But can you imagine how a non Morman mother who knows nothing of a mission feels when she is told she cannot talk to her own son whenever she wants? LOL. Of course she is gonna be concerned.

As far as the cancer illness goes. I am sure that their church did take up donations. Every church and business in town did. But seeing that we have less than 2,000 residents in our town, it was a drop in the bucket I am sure. The news article said these parents had to take out a second mortgage on thier home. I am sure not even that was enough. I am also sure that he probably recieved help in other ways money wise, but can you imagine having to worry about your child having cancer and then the added stress of where is the money gonna come from for his treatments? My heart goes out to them!

what makes a church member "not in good standing" with the church? Would smoking, drinking and eating chocolate make one in not good standing? Just curious?

Thanks for taking the time to reply to me
 
lostfaith said:
Thanks for replying Proadvocate. This is my last post on this that I will make in public, I do not want to get in trouble for posting off topic.

I dont know what the norm is, but this is indeed what happened. His senior year in H. school he started dating this girl, he graduated, went away to college and dropped out mid semester to go on this mission. I am not sure if he went immediatly after dropping out, or if it took a few months, but it was all relatively quick. All I know is he never came back home before going on this mission. So, no grooming for years or saving up.

What you said about the phone calls make sense, they are there to work not chat. But can you imagine how a non Morman mother who knows nothing of a mission feels when she is told she cannot talk to her own son whenever she wants? LOL. Of course she is gonna be concerned.

As far as the cancer illness goes. I am sure that their church did take up donations. Every church and business in town did. But seeing that we have less than 2,000 residents in our town, it was a drop in the bucket I am sure. The news article said these parents had to take out a second mortgage on thier home. I am sure not even that was enough. I am also sure that he probably recieved help in other ways money wise, but can you imagine having to worry about your child having cancer and then the added stress of where is the money gonna come from for his treatments? My heart goes out to them!

what makes a church member "not in good standing" with the church? Would smoking, drinking and eating chocolate make one in not good standing? Just curious?

Thanks for taking the time to reply to me

Eating chocolate has NEVER been against our religion. Boy if it was I would be damned as I am a chocoholic and we have even had nights at our church for the women called Death by Chocolate. Yes women, it was divine~! Yes, smoking and drinking or having affairs or being dishonest or many other things could make you a member of not good standing. It is not publically known who is not in good standing unless that person lets others know or if they are a smoker and they smell of smoke.. lol It is a person thing between the person and his Bishop. But being in good standing means you can go to the temple. Oh you also have to be a full tithe payer.
 
Anngelique said:
Eating chocolate has NEVER been against our religion. Boy if it was I would be damned as I am a chocoholic and we have even had nights at our church for the women called Death by Chocolate. Yes women, it was divine~! Yes, smoking and drinking or having affairs or being dishonest or many other things could make you a member of not good standing. It is not publically known who is not in good standing unless that person lets others know or if they are a smoker and they smell of smoke.. lol It is a person thing between the person and his Bishop. But being in good standing means you can go to the temple. Oh you also have to be a full tithe payer.

Lol, proadvocate mentioned chocolate and I thought he/she was serious. By the way, I wasnt ignoring your PM, I had to get ready to go to work, and I have not had time to reply. Thank you for your kindness in your reply's.
 

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