Verdict=**Guilty** & poll

Guilty or not guilty

  • Guilty Forgery

    Votes: 90 84.1%
  • Not Guilty Forgery

    Votes: 6 5.6%
  • Guilty Custodial Interference

    Votes: 91 85.0%
  • Not Guilty Custodial Interference

    Votes: 11 10.3%

  • Total voters
    107
One thing I realized during Tammi's trial is that both the prosecution and the defense did let her ramble on. In hindsight, one realizes prosecution did this to get her statements on the record and so that they could apply a perjury standard.

I don't think this would happen at a trial for Elizabeth with Tammi as a witness. They won't be focused on the same goal. The questions will be "answer yes or no" or "are you absolutely sure?" referring back to previous statements...
 
One thing I realized during Tammi's trial is that both the prosecution and the defense did let her ramble on. In hindsight, one realizes prosecution did this to get her statements on the record and so that they could apply a perjury standard.

I don't think this would happen at a trial for Elizabeth with Tammi as a witness. They won't be focused on the same goal. The questions will be "answer yes or no" or "are you absolutely sure?" referring back to previous statements...



IMHO, I think part of the reason they let her ramble was for possible perjury charges, but I think the main reason they let her was to see if she would bring something up herself that maybe had been objected to prior to the start of trial, or even add information that they didn't previously have.
 
IMHO, I think part of the reason they let her ramble was for possible perjury charges, but I think the main reason they let her was to see if she would bring something up herself that maybe had been objected to prior to the start of trial, or even add information that they didn't previously have.

I get part of what you're saying, not sure about what you mean by bringing up something that had been objected to prior....do you mean information not allowed into the first trial? Because if she had done that, there would have been objections, I'm sure.

I noticed a when couple of times she started rambling...embellishing on this or that detail in her own defense, I was thinking that any attorney should object. But they would wait, Angela would pace, and then cut her off at a certain point. I remember when she tried to sneak in that her first husband had snuck cases of Jack Daniels into the family court judge (or something like that), there was a little flurry of objections and even her defense attorney looked blanched that time. The objection was sustained but I don't think they asked it be stricken. A lot of people were starting to worry that she was even rehabilitating herself up there. Now I realize that was to let it all go on the record for future reference. And that tells me they might be planning on using it, and if they do use it, they will have to call her to qualify it, I think.

In other words, I think (may be wrong) they can use the tape and phone conversations without her, but as regards any direct testimony, they would have to call her to the stand. Either to prove certain points against Elizabeth or to impeach Tammi for whatever reason.

But basically they just let her go on and on. Looking back, there are lots of ways I notice the prosecutors were very crafty and the defense, apparently asleep to the idea of "strategy", failed to anticipate those things or when they happened, just let them go.

Well, she won't be "serving herself" at a new trial, she will have already been convicted, so that gives her a lot more leeway to say anything that prosecution thinks will point toward blame/conviction of Elizabeth.

There's probably A LOT of information that can come in at this trial that someone might have thought would "prejudice" jury against Tammi before. Because they are no longer prosecuting HER. What's not judged relevant in one trial might be a real gem in another.

Again, the charge of conspiracy contains the activities of two or more persons, so if the heat is now off Tammi, so to speak, she might be more able or willing to talk about things that weren't brought out, as you say, "new information". SO...an important factor, IMO is that she no longer has to be as cautious about what she says since she's already been convicted. We have seen she is not shy or unwilling to talk - she has a tendency to make lots of self-serving statements, which may turn around back on her before she realizes exactly what she has said, but in that trial she will have nothing to lose. A wise prosecutor will have figured that out. It would be interesting to speculate on what a defense attorney would advise her about testimony, not that she would pay attention.

Maybe somebody else here can think of some examples the types of issues which weren't discussed at her trial but could be brought out at Elizabeth's?

I see I have a tendency to ramble, too. Feel free to ask me to shut up, anyone. :blushing:
 
IMHO, I think part of the reason they let her ramble was for possible perjury charges, but I think the main reason they let her was to see if she would bring something up herself that maybe had been objected to prior to the start of trial, or even add information that they didn't previously have.

Good point I agree!

Could Tammi get ""House Arrest"
If they say she will do jail time could she get House Arrest instead,on having small children and all?
 
Good point I agree!

Could Tammi get ""House Arrest"
If they say she will do jail time could she get House Arrest instead,on having small children and all?



IMHO, no. Why should the judge take into consideration the children, when apparently Tammi didn't? The fact that Tammi didn't even give a thought to the consequences her family might have to pay for her own actions shows how selfish her behavior was.

And the fact that Logan might be holding HIS OWN son today, on Father's Day, had Tammi walked away, or only given moral support to EJ when she learned that Logan was objecting to adopting Gabriel as well as being told by her own attorney, Ken Schutt (as he testified to at Tammi's trial) to "leave it alone" when he learned the adoption would be contested, shows she thinks of herself - and not her family - first.

Because whether Gabriel is alive or dead because of EJ's actions, Tammi set the wheels in motion by her participation.

JMHO
 
Good point I agree!

Could Tammi get ""House Arrest"
If they say she will do jail time could she get House Arrest instead,on having small children and all?

As I understand it, "jail time" and "house arrest" are two different things. House Arrest would be a kind of probation where she is not allowed to leave the house unless under certain, very strict circumstances. Jail time is jail time in jail. And we can guess it won't be like being home at all. There will be very rigorous rules about under what circumstances she will be able to talk to her husband and children, let alone see them.

I wonder if Tammi even realizes this? It's easy for anybody to look back and say what she (or they) should have done, but now it's coming .....and if that 703 hearing isn't vigorously and successfully argued, she is looking at jail, not probation or house arrest. If prosecutors offer her any kind of a deal to minimize those consequences in exchange say, for testifying at Elizabeth Johnson's trial, she would probably be wise to accept it. Or she will be making a choice between standing on principle or leaving the children without a mother.
 
....... If prosecutors offer her any kind of a deal to minimize those consequences in exchange say, for testifying at Elizabeth Johnson's trial, she would probably be wise to accept it. Or she will be making a choice between standing on principle or leaving the children without a mother.

IMO The Prosecutors won't offer Tammi Smith any deal to minimize the consequences she facing regarding her sentencing. I'm not sure the Prosecutors need Tammi Smith's testimony to secure a conviction in Elizabeth Johnson's trial.
IMO Tammi Smith has proven she will lie under oath - So, why use her as a witness?
 
IMO The Prosecutors won't offer Tammi Smith any deal to minimize the consequences she facing regarding her sentencing. I'm not sure the Prosecutors need Tammi Smith's testimony to secure a conviction in Elizabeth Johnson's trial.
IMO Tammi Smith has proven she will lie under oath - So, why use her as a witness?

Using an analogy my mother used to say: Wish in one hand and pee in the other and see which gets full first.

First of all, it's all about the WHOLE STORY of baby Gabriel. This is a new trial and a new jury. The more they can offer a jury the whole picture, including all of the participants and any testimony that can come in along with them, the more they can embellish and even "frame" that picture, for lack of a better term, present everything.

They are going to put Elizabeth out there and people are going to question whether she is lying or not. They can put Tammi up and people can speculate the same. Here's a thought: Maybe a new jury wouldn't even know she had been convicted? I don't know. Perhaps the truth will seep out somewhere in the middle? Put them out there and let the jury decide. That's just my opinion.

I do know that in some cases they will go to the jails and deals to prisoners in exchange for testimony. It's not out of the realm of possibility to me that they would do this and it's definitely part of politics, smarmy as it seems. From a prosecution perspective, to me - it's like they won a game with the investigation and a game of Tammi's conviction, and now the big one to clench the series. The baby is still unaccounted for. I'd think they would pull out every gun in the arsenal to give closure to that situation. Just MOO.
 
IMHO, I don't think that EJ will take the stand. Since EJ is the only person who ultimately knows exactly what happened to Gabriel, what would be the point of taking the stand, only to take the 5th. I think she will stay silent and let the evidence fall where it will.

And, unless Tammi DID set up someone to pick up Gabriel from EJ in San Antonio, she can offer nothing in the way of testimony to the kidnapping and child abuse charges. I think the prosecution would rather risk getting a not guilty on the conspiracy charge than risk putting Tammi on the stand against EJ.

Besides, at that point, Tammi would have her own personal agenda for testifying against EJ. Remember the threat on the phone call tape? "Just so you know, we are going to sue you - for ruining our lives." Can't say that I would trust Tammi's testimony to not be self-serving to "get even" with EJ if they were to put her on the stand.

Still don't think it's gonna happen. I think by July 6, 2012, Tammi's involvement will be a done deal with this case (not with the punishment - just with the case itself).... JMHO
 
I really hope, for H & S's sake, that Tammi is spending some good, quality time with them tonight. If she loses the 703 motion tomorrow, and the judge decides she doesn't qualify for probation, Tammi could be taken into custody before the case is adjourned for the day, awaiting sentencing on July 6. Which means that tomorrow morning might be the last time she would be alone with her family for however long the judge decides....
 
IMHO, I don't think that EJ will take the stand. Since EJ is the only person who ultimately knows exactly what happened to Gabriel, what would be the point of taking the stand, only to take the 5th. I think she will stay silent and let the evidence fall where it will.

And, unless Tammi DID set up someone to pick up Gabriel from EJ in San Antonio, she can offer nothing in the way of testimony to the kidnapping and child abuse charges. I think the prosecution would rather risk getting a not guilty on the conspiracy charge than risk putting Tammi on the stand against EJ.

Besides, at that point, Tammi would have her own personal agenda for testifying against EJ. Remember the threat on the phone call tape? "Just so you know, we are going to sue you - for ruining our lives." Can't say that I would trust Tammi's testimony to not be self-serving to "get even" with EJ if they were to put her on the stand.

Still don't think it's gonna happen. I think by July 6, 2012, Tammi's involvement will be a done deal with this case (not with the punishment - just with the case itself).... JMHO

Re Tammi's agenda. That's exactly what I think prosecutors would hope Tammi would do. But you are right in that Elizabeth would probably take the 5th or not testify.

Sorry I don't know how to cut and paste portions of quotes.
 
Re Tammi's agenda. That's exactly what I think prosecutors would hope Tammi would do. But you are right in that Elizabeth would probably take the 5th or not testify.

Sorry I don't know how to cut and paste portions of quotes.



No worries! :fence:
 
I really hope, for H & S's sake, that Tammi is spending some good, quality time with them tonight. If she loses the 703 motion tomorrow, and the judge decides she doesn't qualify for probation, Tammi could be taken into custody before the case is adjourned for the day, awaiting sentencing on July 6. Which means that tomorrow morning might be the last time she would be alone with her family for however long the judge decides....

I think about those kids a lot, how they got to this point, and what's going to happen to them. The big picture of KIDS: Her kids, the kids of Jack's children, african kids, biological vs. adopted kids, and Gabriel. Like a hurricane of kids with Tammi dead center while they are like some kind of debris out there on the periphery. It seems that H and S have already been through a lot in their young lives, and now this. They need attention, consistency and stability, and I can't even imagine how they are going to get it in any circumstance - or what anxieties their little minds are going through.

They're not just kids - they are human beings. This isn't going to go away, it will inform their whole lives.
 
So far, no indication of a live feed for this hearing. I checked KPHO and zilch news.
 
So far, no indication of a live feed for this hearing. I checked KPHO and zilch news.

I read some where that the hearing will be 4:30 ET. I hope it will be live streamed. If someone finds out that information, please post.
 
I read some where that the hearing will be 4:30 ET. I hope it will be live streamed. If someone finds out that information, please post.

I haven't heard, but I put the live links on the new thread I started today called Oral Arguments.
 
So far, no indication of a live feed for this hearing. I checked KPHO and zilch news.

I was going to ask for a link to ZILCH NEWS, but I guess we have the oral arguments page now.....sorry, couldn't help it....lol


:floorlaugh:
 
I'm not having any luck finding the "Oral Arguments" thread, can somebody help me navigate to it? Thank you.
 

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