Verdict in NYC Sean Bell Shooting by NYPD

Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by gaia227, Apr 25, 2008.

  1. gaia227

    gaia227 I have never taken any exercise except sleeping an

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    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24305660

    NOT GUILTY.

    Being a New Yorker I have been following this since the night Sean Bell was murdered and I am sick to hear the NYPD has once again gotten away with the murder of an innocent, unarmed man. I expected two of the officers to be acquitted but I really thought the officer who fired over 30 times would be found guilty... I was wrong and so is Judge Cooperman
     
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  3. cinsbythesea

    cinsbythesea Active Member

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    Let's hope this doesn't turn out the way LA did when the cops were found not guilty in the Rodney King case- what an ugly time that was.
     
  4. Masterj

    Masterj Active Member

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    I actually think the Judge did a great job. The prosececutors didn't present their case well, and many of their witnesses contradicted each other and were not that credible.

    I think what happened to Sean Bell is tragic, and he certainly did not deserve to die that way. But I still think the Judge did the best with what was presented to him.
     
  5. Mygirlsadie

    Mygirlsadie New Member

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    I don't understand the need for the over-kill? I also don't understand why Al Sharpton was there? I don't like that man and it seems like anytime he comes around things don't go right... :rolleyes: I feel so bad for Sean's parents my heart breaks for them.
     
  6. gaia227

    gaia227 I have never taken any exercise except sleeping an

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    You're right the prosecutions case was a mess and the whole case is tricky. One has to keep in mind the phrase, 'beyond a shadow of a doubt' which I admit is hard when you feel emotional about something.
    I understand, whether the officers would ever admit it, they were probably scared, didn't know what they were dealing and they over-reacted but they are supposed to be trained to deal with that pressure so something like this doesn't happen. I think Officer Oliver who emptied his gun, reloaded it and the emptied again at people who were not shooting back at him was acting recklessly and as a result of his manical shooting a man is dead and I really believe he should face judicial consequences for that.
     
  7. Masterj

    Masterj Active Member

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    Yes - I completely agree with your entire post, but especially the part I bolded.

    I have a big problem with Sean's fiance and loved ones turning him into a martyr. He was at a strip club after hours, drinking and smoking pot with his friends, allegedly getting frisky with the strippers and coming on to them. Then he and his buddies engage in words with another guy, threats are tossed around, and the whole thing comes to a head when he slams his car into a police car, refusing to stop for the police. Sean did not deserve to die or get shot so many times, but he was no choir boy or completely innocent by any means.
     
  8. absinthe

    absinthe Former Member

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    Who of us is?
     
  9. hipmamajen

    hipmamajen I love the friends I have gathered together on thi

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    It doesn't have to be beyond a shadow of a doubt, just beyond a reasonable doubt. Right?
     
  10. Masterj

    Masterj Active Member

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    Well I would like to think that most of us don't go around trying to run over a police officer and then hitting police cars with our cars.
     
  11. absinthe

    absinthe Former Member

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    Of course not, but I think that judging a victim based on his or her character (or lack thereof) is a slippery slope.
     
  12. Masterj

    Masterj Active Member

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    I know what you are saying, but my thoughts on Sean are of his actions on that night in question. I understand his family is rightfully devastated, but that doesn't mean that his behaviour and actions on that night should be overlooked. I am not blaming him for his death and I think the trigger happy officer should be held accountable. But I do understand why the officers thought there was a gun and that their lives were in danger.

    Did you follow this trial and read the testimony?
     
  13. CyberLaw

    CyberLaw Former Member

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    A slippery slope, please.

    Of course the character of the victim is relevant, along with criminal history, conduct, drug use, whom they associate with. It is all relevant.

    So if a victim is a church going choir member who has never harmed another person in their life. Is devoted to their family, volunteers at an animal shelter as opposed to a person who deals drugs, beats up people, bullies strangers and family members alike and harms animals.

    A person's character is relevant in a lot of situations. People "often" attempt to hide behind a "facade" of their character and "con people" into thinking that they are upstanding when in fact, after an arrest, they are not, but they used the "cloak" of a facade to get away with crimes.

    We judge people by what they do and that goes to character.
     
  14. kygal

    kygal Former Member

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    I feel very sorry for his family, but I had the idea that they would never be convicted as soon as I read it. I'm not exactly sure why, but considering the who's and the what's it just didn't look good. I was hoping the one who did most of the shooting would at least get something -- there is no call for that much shooting at anything.

    I also hope that this doesn't turn into a big racial fallout as well. Al Sharpton's main goal there was to do that -- or at least I firmly believe he saw this as his chance to start something that NO ONE could ingnore.
     
  15. absinthe

    absinthe Former Member

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    No, I didn't read the testimony. And certainly, charging at officers with a car is deadly force had should be handled as such. However, I don't think that his being at a strip club and use of drugs and alcohol should be relevant.
     
  16. absinthe

    absinthe Former Member

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    If a person is truly a victim, then no, Cyber Law, I don't believe it should matter in the courtroom.
     
  17. Masterj

    Masterj Active Member

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    This is why I think it is relevant:

    - He was leaving the strip club after-hours, after consuming a couple of long island ice teas and having smoked joints outside the club

    -once outside, he and his friends engaged in words with another patron, who implied that he had a gun, according to testimony, sean and his friends were overheard discussing going to get "their gat"

    -he got right into his car and the undercover police office intervened and demanded Sean (who had long island ice teas and marrijuana in his system, and according to testimony, had very bad eyesight) stop the car. Sean did not. He attempted to first hit the undercover cop and then backed up and smashed into a police car, if I am not mistaken.

    How is that not relevant?
     
  18. absinthe

    absinthe Former Member

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    That is certainly relevant! And surely the police had more than probable cause to stop his car and arrest him for drunk driving. I don't see why his being at a strip club and being intoxicated is justification for officers shooting at him.
     
  19. CyberLaw

    CyberLaw Former Member

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    So if the "victim" hated cops, had a hare trigger temper, carried a gun, vowed to get even with the first cop he saw, used drugs, was violent, followed and stalked his ex girlfriend. She felt unsafe and carried a gun, she shot him in self defense after he tried to abduct and rape her.

    Gee, I guess the character of the victim would not matter.....

    The DA can portray him as a nice guy, who did not carry a gun, who did not use drugs, was not violent, did not follow and stalk his ex girlfriend and she can go to prison for murder, not self defense.

    A victims character is relevant along with the criminals. I can think of very few situations where a person's character is not relevant.

    What about a women who "cried" rape. Well she has done this before. She uses this "ploy" to get back at boyfriends because they don't buy her the expensive things she wants. Well, her "character" of making multiple claims of rape by boyfriends, which have no evidence and were not proceeded with arrest and or convictions, would be relevant at his trial. If not introduced, safe to say, excellent grounds for appeal.

    Because you have to know the character of the victim to determine why they became a victim.

    But, you cannot "bash" or "malign", but introduce "evidence" of conduct and character.

    What about a child who kills her Dad. Well her Dad was an abusive alcoholic, who beat his wife, harmed his daughter and she "protected" herself from him. You bet your bottom dollar that the defense will introduce "character" witnesses, that this man was not the "church" going business man that the community "thought" he was. They will attempt to establish his "true" character at trial. That can "help" to understand why the girl acted the way she did and felt that she had to protect herself from her Dad.
     
  20. Masterj

    Masterj Active Member

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    Where did I ever say it was justification for the officers shooting at him? :confused:
     
  21. deanws

    deanws Former Member

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    Good post. I can't stand that fool Al either! He causes trouble where ever he goes. He is loud mouthed and a fool! :mad:
     

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