Verdict watch! ** GUILTY **

Discussion in 'Luka Rocco Magnotta AKA Eric Newman' started by Salem, Dec 13, 2014.

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  1. No_Stone_Unturned

    No_Stone_Unturned New Member

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    Can anyone take over. Gotta run........
     


  2. redheart

    redheart Active Member

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    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 60m 60 minutes ago
    Giving testimony rare so too many variables to consider in way someone testifies. #Magnotta

    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 59m 59 minutes ago
    Up to you on how much or how little you rely on testimony. You can believe some or none of it. #Magnotta

    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 59m 59 minutes ago
    Judge: reasonable doubt and credibility. #Magnotta

    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 58m 58 minutes ago
    You can believe a witness, fully or not. If reasonable doubt, find #Magnotta not guilty.

    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 57m 57 minutes ago
    Only evidence in courtroom. Things entered as exhibits or admissions. What witnesses answer. Not questions unless witness agrees. #Magnotta

    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 57m 57 minutes ago
    Indictment read out is not evidence. Lawyers' and judges' words not evidence. #Magnotta

    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 56m 56 minutes ago
    Direct and circumstantial evidence. #Magnotta

    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 56m 56 minutes ago
    Witnesses tell us what they personally saw or heard: direct evidence. #Magnotta

    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 56m 56 minutes ago
    Sometimes they say things, you are asked to draw certain inferences. #Magnotta

    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 55m 55 minutes ago
    Exhibits may also provide direct/circumstantial evidence. Can take both as part of whole evidence. #Magnotta

    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 54m 54 minutes ago
    Hearsay/knowledge.Witness may have personal knowledge of facts, what they saw, heard.As opposed to learning from another source. #Magnotta

    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 53m 53 minutes ago
    When witness testifies about out of court statement from person not witness, testimony does not prove fact about testimony.

    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 53m 53 minutes ago
    Personal knowledge of facts: Most reliable source of info, reliability can be tested and evaluated. #Magnotta

    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 52m 52 minutes ago
    Witness may be cross examined and you may observe their demeanour. #Magnotta

    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 52m 52 minutes ago
    Reliability difficult to assess if witness tells something from another source. #Magnotta
     
  3. redheart

    redheart Active Member

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    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 54m 54 minutes ago
    When witness testify with no personal knowledge but from another source, doesn't prove fact about testimony. #Magnotta

    i.e. Psychiatrists give opinion and info used not based on personal info but from another source. #Magnotta

    You heard evidence of expert witnesses, judge says. They are qualified by their training. #Magnotta

    You may give this testimony as little or as much weight it deserves. Consider experts' background, reasons for testimony,..

    What the expert relies on in terms of certain facts, to offer their opinion, may be same or different from evidence in case.

    Closer to the evidence,more helpful to you: judge. #Magnotta

    The more an expert relies on info not proven in evidence, the less weight you may put on it.#Magnotta

    Previous convictions of witnesses. Can use them to help decide how much or little of witnesses' testimony is reliable. #Magnotta

    Previous conviction doesn't necessarily make testimony unreliable or believable. #Magnotta

    Motive. We often use the word motive and intent interchangeably but in law, not the same thing. #Magnotta

    Judge: a person may do something intentionally,whether they have motive or not. #Magnotta

    What crown must prove. Motive not one of them,. What matters is what they did and if they intended to do it. #Magnotta

    Motive can also be relevant in deciding #Magnotta suffered from mental disorder to extent he was not criminally responsible.

    #Magnotta motive:to generate public interest &to seek fame?For you to decide if any u will give to motive or to lack of motive in this case.
     
  4. redheart

    redheart Active Member

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    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 49m 49 minutes ago
    Don't need motive to determine #Magnotta guilt or innocence. #Magnotta

    #Magnotta raised defence of non criminal responsibility. Can consider after-the-fact conduct.

    Previous evidence: building manager's earlier testimony given post death. Consider you did not see him testify in person.

    Evidence on video tape and video link. From France and Germany and long distance. Can consider did not see witnesses in person.

    Lunch break. Back at 1:45 pm. #Magnotta
     
  5. Fairy

    Fairy New Member

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    Just saw a tweet that said once the jury is sequestered, the media will be able to report what was discussed without the jury. Should be interesting.
     
  6. Kamille

    Kamille Shine bright like a diamond

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    I can't wait. That's usually the most informative part of the trial. All the things that the defence was able to argue out.
     
  7. Kamille

    Kamille Shine bright like a diamond

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    This goes directly to the fact that neither of the defense "experts" actually did an assessment based on the evidence in this case but rather based on LM's shaky medical history. Very little of LM's "self reporting" in those assessments was ever proven IMO.

    MOO
     
  8. redheart

    redheart Active Member

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    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 11m 11 minutes ago
    Lunch break over. Judge has returned. #Magnotta

    Legal issues first before jury comes in . #Magnotta

    Jury back. Judge continues his final instructions. #Magnotta

    Judge: The issues. 1st: Defence non criminal respons due to mental disorder. Issue for you to decide. Involved several steps. #Magnotta

    Everyone presumed not to suffer from mental disorder, presumed to be crim responsible. Exemption must be proven on probabilities. #Magnotta

    #Magnotta has raised issue of mental disorder. Burden of proof is exemption here.

    He must prove more likely than not he suffered from illness to extent he was not crim responsible. #Magnotta

    More likely or not suffering from mental disorder at time of crime, made him incapable of knowing acts were wrong? #Magnotta

    During defence closing arguments, may have had impression to disregard psych reports, that facts alone support his case. #Magnotta

    Judge says as matter of law cannot ignore their evidence. #Magnotta

    Evidence of experts, remember difference between personal knowledge and info from other sources. #Magnotta

    Repeats how much importance jury puts on such evidence up to them.More experts rely on facts not proved in evidence,less weight. #Magnotta
     
  9. redheart

    redheart Active Member

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    Yes. And for those of us (me!) who are impatient, I imagine it will come out very quickly - the reporters have probably been working on these stories for awhile.
     
  10. redheart

    redheart Active Member

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    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 7m 7 minutes ago
    Defence experts relied on doctors' & other psych experts, evidence, personal observation of #Magnotta & statements made to psych by accused

    Hospital records made by someone who has personal knowledge of matter and recorded=proof of facts. #Magnotta

    Can be used as diagnosis of #Magnotta without testimony of those who wrote up those reports.

    Evidence in health records should be weighed like all evidence, how much you believe and rely on them, up to you. #Magnotta

    Evidence. Experts may rely on evidence presented. #Magnotta

    Personal observation of patient is evidence on which expert can rely to form opinion. Only Chamberland did not observe #Magnotta.

    #Magnotta statements to defence expert psychs on his mental condition before, during and after acts.

    Up to jury to weigh independent proof to corroborate statements. #Magnotta

    #Magnotta statements on acts committed May 24,25,26 is not independently proven before you.

    Up to jury to determine weight of this. Closer to facts proven, the more helpful their opinions will be. #Magnotta

    Less close to facts proven, less weight to put on those opinions. #Magnotta

    #Magnotta statements of his version of facts is factor to consider to give less weight to defence experts' opinions.

    #Magnotta right to remain silent: does not have to testify. Must not infer guilt.
     
  11. redheart

    redheart Active Member

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    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 3m 3 minutes ago
    Doesn't mean you must not rely on evidence of commission of these acts whether #Magnotta suffered from mental disorder at the time.

    Reliability of info to experts by #Magnotta: factor independent but related if he was malingering.

    Must consider if any inconsistencies of statements made by #Magnotta: failed to mention something, explanation for it?

    Is it evidence of faulty memory or evidence of psychosis he was suffering? #Magnotta

    Judge refers to defence psych report on possible reasons for faking mental illness. #Magnotta
     
  12. redheart

    redheart Active Member

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    http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...ons_to_jury_at_luka_rocco_magnotta_trial.html

    Again, no mention in this article - when they're talking about premeditation - about the trailer video LM posted before killing Jun Lin. This really bugs me. Why isn't this being talked about more?

     
  13. No_Stone_Unturned

    No_Stone_Unturned New Member

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    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 4m 4 minutes ago

    #Magnotta keeping his head down for the judge's instructions.


    This struck me!!
     
  14. No_Stone_Unturned

    No_Stone_Unturned New Member

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    Thanks for taking over the tweets guys! And to redheart......may I join your "impatient group"??

    OK, still must go and be busy this afternoon.

    :)

    PS.
    :jail::jail::jail::jail::jail::jail::jail:
     
  15. raffielle

    raffielle Well-Known Member

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    Nah, this was no surprise to me. I am almost positive his lawyers would have told him to shield his face from the jurors, media, etc. I think it would have been impossible for him not to show off his arrogance or smugness or to attempt to over-dramatize his reactions (like at the preliminaries). They did not want any of his true personality to be seen by the jury, rather leave him a blank slate. JMHO.
     
  16. Shimmers

    Shimmers New Member

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    I know this must sound so confusing and frustrating, but he already plead guilty. The trial wasn't about proving that LM did murder JL, but LM being NCR for his actions. So basicly the whole case is build about LM's psyche and not something else. As i see it, the Crown thinks/believes that the email to the Sun was enough evidence to hold up in court, because mr West could testify about that email. As to the kitten video's, it was/is harder for the Crown to pin it down on LM. They have too little evidence for it to make it solid. Eventhough the animal activist group has a strong case, i think the Crown didn't see it as "important"enough and on a side track: it is not the case where LM sits trial for.
    Now about the promoting 1 lunatic 1 icepick on the internet 2 week prior. Yes it is an important aspect to look at in regards of being CR or NCR. But all the promoting was done online. No wittnesses no third party no nothing. And we know that LM used different ip adresses all around the world, so basicly they have nothing to build a strong lead supporting that LM is CR. I think that's why the Crown dodged that whole promoting/ kitten thing. They worked with what they have and builded a case around that. Proving that he is infact insane but responsible for his actions. And this is also what MSM is portraiting.

    On a side note: this happened in The Netherlands aswell. An unsolved murder ( 16 yrs ) broke through via dna. The purp was caught and he plead guilty. But when questioned by the Judge he told an unbelievable story with all sorts of hiats , "i don't knows" and "i can't rembembers". He was convicted ofcourse but the thuth will remain hidden because he plead guilty.
     
  17. No_Stone_Unturned

    No_Stone_Unturned New Member

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    I have only a few moments:



    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 20s 21 seconds ago

    To decide this, must consider all evidence including mental disorder and anything said or done in this case. #Magnotta
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    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 50s 51 seconds ago

    Judge says if jury satisfied there was intent to murder, next question: was it both planned and deliberate? #Magnotta
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    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 2m 2 minutes ago

    BREAKING: Judge opens door to #manslaughter verdict in #Magnotta trial. #CJAD
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    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 2m 2 minutes ago

    #Magnotta has admitted the first 2 elements, jury must determine the last 2 elements beyond reasonable doubt.
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    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 3m 3 minutes ago

    If not, and find reasonable doubt about all elements and mental disorder, must find #Magnotta guilty of 1st degree murder.
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    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 4m 4 minutes ago

    Unless jury satisfied crown proved all elements beyond reasonable doubt, find #Magnotta not guilty of 1st degree murder.
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    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 5m 5 minutes ago

    Unlawful act, unlawful act caused #JunLin death, intent to murder, murder planned and deliberate. #Magnotta
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    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 5m 5 minutes ago

    1st degree murder: Crown must have proven 4 elements. #Magnotta
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    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 9m 9 minutes ago

    If evidence shows mental disorder not enough to find him non crim responsible but reasonable doubt for each offence. #Magnotta
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    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 11m 11 minutes ago

    If not,but find #Magnotta suffering from mental disorder but not 1 tht prevented him frm knowing right from wrong,must consider as evidence.
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    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 12m 12 minutes ago

    You have to be satisfied #Magnotta more likely than not was suffering from mental disorder. If yes, find him not crim responsible.
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    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 15m 15 minutes ago

    Watts had said that #Magnotta was in a psychotic state May 24, 25 26 and did not know his acts were wrong.
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    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 17m 17 minutes ago

    Judge refers to psych reports such as that of Watts on #Magnotta knowing right from wrong.
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    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 17m 17 minutes ago

    So was #Magnotta incapable of knowing his acts were wrong because of his mental disorder?
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    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 18m 18 minutes ago

    Did it deprive #Magnotta of the capacity of knowing the acts were wrong?
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    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 18m 18 minutes ago

    2nd question: more likely or not #Magnotta mental disorder made him incapable at the time of knowing acts were wrong?
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    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 20m 20 minutes ago

    Empty seat among the 14 jurors. #Magnotta
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    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 21m 21 minutes ago

    Jury is here. Back to the judge's instructions. #Magnotta
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    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 23m 23 minutes ago

    Ok bringing in the jury. #Magnotta
     
  18. No_Stone_Unturned

    No_Stone_Unturned New Member

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    REPEATED BY REPORTER:


    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 2m 2 minutes ago

    BREAKING: Judge opens door to second degree murder verdict in #Magnotta trial. #CJAD
     
  19. No_Stone_Unturned

    No_Stone_Unturned New Member

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    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 37s 37 seconds ago

    If jury finds murder planned and deliberate and no reasonable doubt about evidence and mental disorder,find #Magnotta guilty of 1st degree.
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    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 2m 2 minutes ago

    Unless jury is satisfied murder planned and deliberate, must find #Magnotta not guilty of 1st degree murder and guilty of 2nd degree murder
     
  20. No_Stone_Unturned

    No_Stone_Unturned New Member

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    Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 34s 34 seconds ago

    If jury not satisfied crown proved all elements linked to interfering with dead body, find #Magnotta not guilty.
     
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