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Very Strange Story/Note from 1985 Found in Butt of Gun

Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by Tricia, Mar 20, 2017.

  1. NZkiwi

    NZkiwi Member

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    Something...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  2. allfalldown

    allfalldown Verified Family - Very Strange Story/Note from 198

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    I just received the investigation notes from my FOIA.

    Two pdfs in linked in dropbox straight from San Juan County Sheriff.

    My thoughts on what happened are changing because a ton of lies of omission and lies about Harleys will. Turns out there is proof one existed. I've never seen it. Can I find out where or how it was supposed to be filed?

    Here are the two files from FOIA:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/m4x3rft85fpf0kt/Case #1985-1852_Part1.pdf?dl=0

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/z6pu25rvkl49ypn/Case #1985-1852_Part2.pdf?dl=0

    Thanks for hanging in there gang! This is a weird one.

    Adam
    #1 Son
     
  3. allfalldown

    allfalldown Verified Family - Very Strange Story/Note from 198

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    Ok, kids (my friends, I call everyone kids regardless of age, just me!),

    I have posted (above) the "Investigation" in which his wife admits she falsified some things, lies about knowing him his whole life - you'll see when you read it - she can't answer simple questions about his life.... in fact, she did not know him "since she was three".

    I'm not going to make accusations but there are only two outcomes in my mind and I'll leave it to you to figure out what YOU think. He had 11 insurance policies, one for a quarter of a million dollars (something I didn't know until just today). I'd like to dive deeper into Farmers Insurance and ask about this but I don't know what I have that would allow me to ask those questions.

    So, I've unzipped the newspaper articles and posts in case anyone wasn't reading them because of fear of catching a virus. Now they are just folders with .jpgs on dropbox along with the above linked police reports.

    I hope you guys are still here and have eyeballs on because it seems that there are questions that have gone unasked and one person made out like a bandit.

    This is a link to the folder with everything that I have that I'll share right now. Ask away!

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wgfrwpojl4ctxg4/AAAJvls2xMS86CL8sbRdD6rYa?dl=0

    Best,

    Adam
    #1 Son
     
  4. Bit of hope

    Bit of hope Well-Known Member

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    I'm with you....have to take some time to go through all the stuff. Specific questions/uncertainties/sorrows?
     
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  5. bears10

    bears10 Well-Known Member

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    Well I just finished reading part 1 in the dropbox link, and the wife is really sketchy IMO. The interview with her nail person was very interesting. It seems the wife was very concerned with appearances and how others perceived her and her family IMO. Maybe that's why she's so insistent on it being a murder and not suicide? Because some people have negative views on suicide? I wonder if the life insurance policy paid out since his death was classified as a suicide. I know nowadays (most?) policies will pay out in the event of a suicide as long as you've had the policy for a certain amount of time. Was it like that in the 80s?
     
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  6. ladyballplayer

    ladyballplayer Member

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    Well it appears the gun wasn't found 30 - 40 feet away.

    This is at the beginning of the Case Report COmpact.

    Mr. Chavez (father in law) also told me he saw the gun (taken as evidence)lying on the upper right chest area of the victim with the barrel pointing up towards head. Mr. Chavez told me he moved the gun a couple of inches toward the right armpit.
     
  7. allfalldown

    allfalldown Verified Family - Very Strange Story/Note from 198

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    Sketchy, yeah.

    The death was in 1985. It is amazing to see the lies of omission, the deceit and that mentions by police that she fabricated some stories and seems to never have been a suspect. Whenever I read about things like this, suspect #1 is the spouse and there is nothing in here where she was investigated. No test on her hands for powder.

    They lived in the middle of nowhere and all the things she mentioned happening previously (with the sole exception of the stabbing) have no evidence, for which she was instrumental in making sure didn't exist.

    Specific questions:

    1. There was a will but I was always told there wasn't.

    2. There was a life insurance policy for $250,000, ½ of which as I understand would go to his children, the other ½ to his 2nd wife. Not sure if it paid out but she went out of her way to lie about the two children of Sam.

    3. She didn't know him "since she was 3". She couldn't even say where or when he was in the military! she stammers in the interview.

    4. It is all convenient.. which either means they had the right findings OR Harley Smith had a great will to live - there was a dispute where she said they weren't religious yet everything I know and other people involved in the investigation that knew Mr. Smith said he was Christian. Also, the only thing I inherited were two burial plots at a local cemetery so I'm not thinking he wanted to be cremated.

    5. She had him cremated ASAP - no military honor guard, no notification, no memorial, no placard, no marker no nothing.

    Real loving.
     
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  8. ladyballplayer

    ladyballplayer Member

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    Things definitely sound fishy. I'm only on page 44 so I have quite a bit more to read. Hopefully this WS community can help find your answers.
     
  9. ladyballplayer

    ladyballplayer Member

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    I n the police report she says the man left on a motorcycle that was left running on the road. In the rehashing of the email you received after sending your handwritten letter you remark that she mentions "she saw a person running to a car, getting in and driving off" Are you sure she said car in the email? because the police report clearly talks about a motorcycle. Had I witnessed my husbands murder I wouldn't forget a fact like that.
     
  10. allfalldown

    allfalldown Verified Family - Very Strange Story/Note from 198

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    Like I said, there are only two real possibilities right? He either did shoot himself... or she did and lead the investigators down he path. There was nobody out there in the middle of nowhere. He was in a weakened state. Easy to put a gun up to his head.
     
  11. allfalldown

    allfalldown Verified Family - Very Strange Story/Note from 198

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    I have read so many lies and errors of omission (lies of omission) that I need to go back to page one and start over to to compare/contrast. I can post her email.

    The officers even note that she fabricated stories .. you'll see as you get to the end of the report yet STILL I see no indication that she was ever investigated.
     
  12. Eaglet

    Eaglet New Member

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    So many years have passed and it doesn't appear that a certain someone has been completely transparent. I did note in the divorce decree that he was granted, as his separate property, any life insurance as long as his children were named beneficiary.
    I don't mean any disrespect but your dad seemed to be dodging his responsibilities to you boys, a lot like mine did. It was also stated, by the wife,somewhere in all the documents, that you boys were not his biological children but your mothers children by a previous marriage. The support documents clearly list you boys as his children. Did he ever honor his visitation?
    IMHO I think her stories changed because of the insurance policy, they usually don't pay out if it is suicide within a certain time period of buying the policy.
    Car wreck-witness said no other vehicle around
    Stabbing-no witnesses Officer said it looked staged and she made the call to check on him!
    Flowers ( evil intent)-sent by friend and she knew it at time of Officer questioning her
    Threatening phone calls-only she received them
    His feeling worthless, something wrong with his brain-he shared that with others but his medical records do not support brain damage. So who was making him feel that way?


    She is the only one who really knew his mindset and what was going on. Family, friends, and neighbors are retelling through her eyes other than Joe, and he stated where the gun was. For all we know they could have had a huge argument and he left the house with the gun, distraught.
    It appears to me, moo, that the investigation was very thorough. They followed up on everything.Between them and the Insurance investigators they caught the inconsistencies.
    My heart goes out to you and your brother. I hope you can forgive him, for your sake. I read a damaged man who made poor choices. He was reaching out to help other Vets so his caring nature shows through. I am sure when the support papers came he did take it to heart that he did the wrong thing with his sons. I don't think it was his 100% choice/idea to hide the assets. She should have reached out to both you boys at the time through your mom, she was the adult. It's a pretty tight timeline for all the things that went wrong, seems like the downhill spiral started with the car accident. It would be interesting to know if it was just her telling everyone what your dads background was ( all the made-up stories).$20,000 income(according to their tax return) for 2 people is not as impressive as a high powered attorney flying to DC, or as fascinating as witness protection. Truth-benders are able to make their own memories.
     
  13. allfalldown

    allfalldown Verified Family - Very Strange Story/Note from 198

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    Indeed. Clearly she went out of her way to avoid the inconvenience at the very least of mentioning his children back in Seattle. There has to be some kind of law - LYING - I don't know. My problem is there are other things that she lied about, property, values of his estate, and made sure nobody asked about the kids back in Seattle. He was sued to child support and you'd think they'd have tried to do the right thing by that.

    All I really wanted was a banjo that was 4th generation Smith - mine by birthright - I even learned how to play... but all of his belongings were destroyed in a house fire a few months later...

    [​IMG][​IMG] "Incinderism" i.e. arson

    Convenient?
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Bit of hope

    Bit of hope Well-Known Member

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    From reading part one

    - Nikki states that it took a while before Joe reacted to her screaming when she went to get him. He says he was counting coins in the house, a quiet activity, also his wife already gone to bed. I find that suspicious. What took him so long? Could he be the one seen outside, running back to his house and after a while opening the door as nothing had happened. Also inconsistencies in the timeline in Joe's statements.
    - Joe states he went back to his house to get a flashlight and a 22 gun, where was it when LE arrived? LE states that when they arrived at the scene they saw both Joe and Nikki standing with Harley, both unarmed.
    - Why needed Joe to move the gun away from Harley's body for his own protection, as he states?
    - From her statements it's is very unclear where Nikki actually was in their house when she heard a gunshot. In bed, in the kitchen, before an open window? I would have let her make a drawing to get this more clear.
    - Nikki even admitted that she made parts of the story up and both are unwilling to take a polygraph test.
    - The story about the running motor-cycle and Nikki seeing a person is not impossible but doubtful. Especially when a neighbor suddenly seems to remember seeing a vehicle leave with one headlight, coming from behind the
    - No other family members were tested for gunpowder residue.
    - I'm not sure how things with child support work in America, but instead of seeing him handing over all his property to Nikki as a sign he wanted to commit suicide, could it be that he did this because there would be nothing "to get" by your mother?
    - I'm not sure of Nikki's role in all this. Why would she have wanted him dead? What did she had to gain by that? She already had all his possessions, she didn't know about the life insurance...you can't look into a human being, but from what I read and what other people tell, it seems that she cared about him.
    - Are they paying a life insurance out when somebody commits suicide? I guess not...maybe that's why Nikki is so persistent in saying it was a homicide...
    - The gun was examined but they say nothing about other fingerprints then Harley's on it. In what manner moved Joe the gun away from the body?
    - The suicide conclusion...I'm not at all convinced...Why shoot yourself in the middle of the road? And all the above....
     
  15. allfalldown

    allfalldown Verified Family - Very Strange Story/Note from 198

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    There are three different accounts of who found the body first. 1. Joe, 2. Nikki, 3. both of them at the same time. Weird.

    As for moving the gun, I definitely would not have touched it. I'm not sure many people flat on their back bleeding out with their brains blown out make fast moves to a weapon in the dark, level it and use it. I understand being cautious but by merely "moving it" perhaps nobody knew where a firearm "should" land if one shoots them self.

    I've never seen in or been in the house but yeah, her stories change a bit over time although they are clearly well rehearsed.

    I find it almost laughable that they agreed to take polygraph tests and both backed out. The note from the detective is also a complete lapse in logic stating that they were "only witnesses" ... it makes me near hysterical with "why not suspects"!

    When Harley left the State of Washington for New Mexico, it was the last state in the union to not extradite for child support. In the intervening years this changed, in 1984 (after 5 years!) the suit made it to New Mexico - and he would have to have known it. Both he and his 2nd wife would have to know they were not going to duck this one. As long as Harley was alive, they'd both be under this burden.

    Usually in our country suicide is not covered by life insurance until a specified amount of time passes. I'm not sure about this policy because I have no idea how to even track it down.

    If you look closely, even the fingerprints on the gun are partials - that could not even be tested.

    Your conclusion is the same as mine but I have no way to know any of these things for sure.
     
  16. BayouBelle_LA

    BayouBelle_LA Well-Known Member

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    I haven't read everything in the drop box yet however I noticed in the first statement given by NS she alluded to the fact that they found Harley (Sam) together. She said that Joe told her not to touch him but Joe admits to touching him by moving the gun.

    In Joe's statement he claims he moved the gun because he didn't want the victim to shoot him. If he felt the need to move the gun for their safety why not move it out of reach of the victim. Instead he repositions the gun on Harley's body. This makes no sense to me.
     
  17. allfalldown

    allfalldown Verified Family - Very Strange Story/Note from 198

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    I'm going to upload an annotated version of each of these reports with omissions of fact or discrepancies in the next few days. Going back through and marking them up - with facts of hindsight and time.

    I cannot conceive of how they didn't consider NS a suspect. At least for an hour or two.
     
  18. allfalldown

    allfalldown Verified Family - Very Strange Story/Note from 198

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  19. ladyballplayer

    ladyballplayer Member

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    I'd love to see the email NS sent you in response to your note.
     
  20. allfalldown

    allfalldown Verified Family - Very Strange Story/Note from 198

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    I may DM it to you, but you may be disappointed. It is very well rehearsed.... if you catch my drift.
     

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