Victim: Alexis Murphy, 17, missing from Shipman, VA, 03 August 2013 - #5

[ArianeEmory]

I totally agree with you.

I tend to agree he's guilty, but in neither case do we know the how and the why. It could have been stalking and sexual murderer, but it could also have been robberies that went wrong, or, I don't know, murder for hire, revenge, they walked onto his pot farm and threatened to turn him in. The psychopathic serial killer aspect certainly needs to be investigated, and is entirely possible, but at this point I'm not seeing it.

I agree; my specific reason is that engaging in a lot of hyperbole (calling someone a psycho predator on so very little evidence) clouds facts and causes mental tunnel vision. I get the same way the other direction--there's a case where a perp's defenders are all but giving him wings and a halo. I just like facts. I wish we had more here. His arrest record reads like a petty criminal, not a sexual predator.

 

[2Hope4]

It is very hard to find bodies, they had one case where a female teen had killed another teen and buried her in a woods near the house, that woods had been scoured and LE must have walked on top of her or at least within 5 feet but they didn't find her until she led them to the body.

As someone who both feeds ferals and rescues the ones i can, I live near a busy road even though im in the woods and unfortunately have buried more than my fair share of bodies (if anyone digs up my front yard after im gone they will think im a serial killer of cats). We used to put stones over them but stopped because the animals never dug them up and we didn't dig that deep. I thought the raccoons or foxes would but nope. So if they put brush over the grave it won't even look like its dug up.

I do get very angry when they say they aren't searching bc they don't have a lead to where she is. Well duh thats why they need to search!!! Woods, parks, waterways, everyone they eliminate is a step closer to finding the missing person

Thank you so very much for helping out the ferals!! TNR does help with the population of cats, despite what animal control wants to believe. And pls, I pray my farm isn't ever dug up...horses, dogs, cats, chickens, all buried here.

A land owner is more likely to notice something 'off' than the general public, IMO. Hunters are also typically very aware of their surroundings. Many hunters are territorial! They don't want to disclose their hunting area, and don't want other hunters invading in on their area. The serious hunters scope out the area, track the bear, or deer, or turkey, and have a very good idea of what is normal and what isn't. Some hunters even have night vision cameras mounted on trees, and go check the cameras every week or so to see what movement is in that area in order to decide where they will hunt, and what the activity of their prey is. Whether the animal is active during morning, evenings or mid day, and what times it is coming through. It's possible that as they check those cameras, they might catch a glimpse of someone else in that area as well.

Bear hunters track for months before hunting season, and use dogs with tracking devices as well. While they don't walk the areas as much as the dogs, they are serious trackers!

IMO, it's going to be a case of someone just happening to find the body, if she's ever found. Given that Samantha was never found, I'm not really sure if Alexis will be either. That is if the same person is responsible for hiding the bodies...

:banghead:

 

[2Hope4]

There are so many creeks, ponds, river, etc in that area, that if we go on the assumption that bodies are typically found near a water... well it's going to take a LOT of searching to find them. And we're looking at mountains, heavy vegetation, lots of animals in those woods to scatter remains. Searchers also have to be so very careful because of the venomous snakes that resides in those areas! One of the reasons I wondered about horses being used.

 

[2Hope4]

Not getting morbid or anything, but I have a curiosity question: In cases where the body of any victim is not found for years and years.... what is it that the perp does in burying the body so that they are never hardly ever discovered? Morgan Harrington was not found for like 5 months and only because a farmer was checking his fences and the body had been dug up and moved by animals, etc. I would think that about anywhere you buried a body in Virginia, unless you buried it very deep, that animals would dig it up and it would be discovered. I guess my question revolves around: where should LE be looking for these bodies that are missing? Or is it that there are just too many places that would fit the bill? Any thoughts? Why can't we find these missing and bring them home to their families!

Unfortunately, many reasons the victim's body isn't found. The terrain being one. The amount of land involved. The amount of federal land. The amount of land that is posted, or federally protected so hunters aren't legally allowed to be in the woods. Shear luck on the murders' part! I don't know how many times I have heard someone say "we could bury them on the back 40 and no one would know!" because some people own large tracks of land that has been in the family for many generations. Lots of farms are being bought and divided up lately due to people not wanting to farm, no children to leave the land to, and sometimes the family left behind just want the money! But as you look at the area in Nelson, notice how many tracks are huge, and think how long it would take to search just one of those areas. And if the area is wooded, realize it might be years before someone even sets foot on that area, much less the area a body might be.

 

[2Hope4]

*****GRAPHIC*****


Animals are lazy. If they have a ready food source, they are happy. If the bodies aren't buried several feet under, then it makes for an easy food source. When you consider all the types of animals in the area that would be interested, it's amazing anyone is ever found! Scavengers come in all sizes and feed on various parts. From bear to a tiny field mouse. Some animals will even rebury their find to feast later. Foxes in particular will bury. They may even move their find a great distance. What they eat is digested, so you figure the chances of finding bones in their poop is unlikely. Unless a large bone, such as the skull, or femur is left behind, some people might not even recognize a bone as human, and figure it was a deer carcass. If the murderer is lucky the body might not be dug up especially during times when food supply is plentiful for animals. There's also the possibility of a substance being used to hide the odor of decomposition, and speed up the decomposition. If something heavy is placed over the body it might be too much trouble for an animal to bother.

All JMO!

 

[21merc7]

Honestly, I know that the Feds (FBI) keep quiet, in drug cases.

I know now they have no idea where Alexis is. Lab stuff is not all back, so there could be blood evidence in the camper, Blazer, or other vehicle, or that shack of a house. I assume they checked the shack house.

I do know the land is impossible and unless RAT says something or imaginary SODDI, there is no finding a body. It will take a random incident like the tire tracks. (The tire tracks suggest looking for a toss over at the top of the mountain or a pit or shallow grave, btw.)

That is why I hope fliers are up everywhere. A piece of clothing, a pocket book, a shoe, a bit of weave, anything can lead to finding her. Even with the trippy hippies coming for the music festival, they may spot something more rapidly as vision is enhanced to view things closely. Fresh dirt for the trucks up the trails would be spotted if people know to look out, bits of cloth, etc....

 

[21merc7]

*****GRAPHIC*****


Animals are lazy. If they have a ready food source, they are happy. If the bodies aren't buried several feet under, then it makes for an easy food source. When you consider all the types of animals in the area that would be interested, it's amazing anyone is ever found! Scavengers come in all sizes and feed on various parts. From bear to a tiny field mouse. Some animals will even rebury their find to feast later. Foxes in particular will bury. They may even move their find a great distance. What they eat is digested, so you figure the chances of finding bones in their poop is unlikely. Unless a large bone, such as the skull, or femur is left behind, some people might not even recognize a bone as human, and figure it was a deer carcass. If the murderer is lucky the body might not be dug up especially during times when food supply is plentiful for animals. There's also the possibility of a substance being used to hide the odor of decomposition, and speed up the decomposition. If something heavy is placed over the body it might be too much trouble for an animal to bother.

All JMO!

**GRAPHIC**

True, but black bears are now grabbing dumpsters for food.

Rodent varieties will grab and drag. If food is available, they will dig a bit for it and take the small pieces. Even squirrels will run off with a bone.

Seeing a bunch of large birds circling is the first sign in the woods and mountains that non-walking in the woods will get. By then, something dragged food if it was covered enough to not alert the big birds.

 

[carterkatt]

I live somewhat close to Nelson County - and our conversation about the soil got me thinking. It's VERY rocky where I am. Putting in fences is not an easy thing. Digging graves for my animals has been a difficult chore due to all the rocks. For large animals (horses), we had to use a backhoe.

Maybe if RAT or someone like that had the thought he needed to bury "something", I bet he found it rough digging and could not go very deep without a lot of sweat and hard work. Maybe if something is buried, it's not that deep. Other locals.... your thoughts???

 

[Justice101]

An eye opener for me was where they found Morgan Harrington's body...about as far out down a grassed over farm road a mile from any dwelling. that person KNEW THAT AREA like the back of their hand.... so if RAT is our murderer and he hid the body, he knows the area well enough that the body will likely never be found unless by some rare chance encounter. And if he has done this before, he is VERY GOOD at it.

 

[MoxieThyme]

I know I am probably gonna catch flak for this but.... listening to all this discussion on bodies and possible methods of disposal, difficulties with locating, and degradation to remains, etc... I think is missing one particular point of possibility... how about maybe she is still alive? Okay before you tell me how unlikely that is, I know... I get it... I know the stats, etc... Im just saying that with the feds being so tight lipped on this since day one... the fact that the only searching done was for the cell phone and that was very, very thorough, the fact they aren't searching, don't seem interested in searching, and aren't asking others to search... tells me they have known "something" on this from the beginning... Even thinking on the things we do "know" ...most of that has come from tips, press, and RAT himself... there is very, very little that LE has ever confirmed... they haven't confirmed specifically about the hair, or HER phone, or accomplices, or CRD, or a BOLO, or anything... what they did was talk to RAT well before her car was found or he was arrested... they served search warrants (sealed), they eventually arrested him with very little detail discussed... and they searched for her phone like crazy until it was possibly found and then pulled up shop.... as soon as that happened her family was able/allowed to talk freely with the press, something her parents weren't able to do before then... so they obviously had, at that point, what they needed... they have not ever, really searched for Alexis at all... and they have hardly ever confirmed much/most of the info we, the public, think we know as certain... and it has been this way from day one... so this behavior to me says maybe... just maybe... they have a reason for not looking for her... maybe because they know she is not here... maybe they have an idea of where she may be, and maybe she is still alive... Im not preaching false hope here... Im just saying LE & Fed behavior has been extremely closed from the get go on this case... and they, in my limited experience, dont simply not even try to look for someone... our terrain is rough, sure... and vast, absoultely... but so is montana or colorado, or any other area that one has seen searches before... rougher and more vast then ours even.... so since they have, to our knowledge, never really looked for her, and certainly never asked for help in looking for her... then maybe, just maybe there is a reason for that... JMO

 

[dda]

I live somewhat close to Nelson County - and our conversation about the soil got me thinking. It's VERY rocky where I am. Putting in fences is not an easy thing. Digging graves for my animals has been a difficult chore due to all the rocks. For large animals (horses), we had to use a backhoe.

Maybe if RAT or someone like that had the thought he needed to bury "something", I bet he found it rough digging and could not go very deep without a lot of sweat and hard work. Maybe if something is buried, it's not that deep. Other locals.... your thoughts???

I think you are right. Digging by hand around here, even with just the clay and not a ton of rocks, is hard work and I wouldn't imagine a person being able to dig much farther than 1-2 feet without equipment or help from another person and a fair amount of time.

 

[2Hope4]

I live somewhat close to Nelson County - and our conversation about the soil got me thinking. It's VERY rocky where I am. Putting in fences is not an easy thing. Digging graves for my animals has been a difficult chore due to all the rocks. For large animals (horses), we had to use a backhoe.

Maybe if RAT or someone like that had the thought he needed to bury "something", I bet he found it rough digging and could not go very deep without a lot of sweat and hard work. Maybe if something is buried, it's not that deep. Other locals.... your thoughts???

Yup, our terrain is the same. I tell my husband we grow good rocks! No matter how many you pick up, wait a few months and more surface. Digging to any depth is almost impossible without a tractor. Even the post hole digger had to have the tip replaced because off all the rocks dulling and chipping it. My garden grows as many rocks as it does tomatoes! Just unbelievable if you haven't experienced it. Hard to describe for those not use to this type of environment.

Doubting someone would be able to dig a deep hole unless it's been raining, and the ground is 'somewhat' softer, though would still take quite awhile, lots of muscles, and sweat! Even just trying to plant a tree is difficult. IMO!

 

[2Hope4]

I know I am probably gonna catch flak for this but.... listening to all this discussion on bodies and possible methods of disposal, difficulties with locating, and degradation to remains, etc... I think is missing one particular point of possibility... how about maybe she is still alive? Okay before you tell me how unlikely that is, I know... I get it... I know the stats, etc... Im just saying that with the feds being so tight lipped on this since day one... the fact that the only searching done was for the cell phone and that was very, very thorough, the fact they aren't searching, don't seem interested in searching, and aren't asking others to search... tells me they have known "something" on this from the beginning... Even thinking on the things we do "know" ...most of that has come from tips, press, and RAT himself... there is very, very little that LE has ever confirmed... they haven't confirmed specifically about the hair, or HER phone, or accomplices, or CRD, or a BOLO, or anything... what they did was talk to RAT well before her car was found or he was arrested... they served search warrants (sealed), they eventually arrested him with very little detail discussed... and they searched for her phone like crazy until it was possibly found and then pulled up shop.... as soon as that happened her family was able/allowed to talk freely with the press, something her parents weren't able to do before then... so they obviously had, at that point, what they needed... they have not ever, really searched for Alexis at all... and they have hardly ever confirmed much/most of the info we, the public, think we know as certain... and it has been this way from day one... so this behavior to me says maybe... just maybe... they have a reason for not looking for her... maybe because they know she is not here... maybe they have an idea of where she may be, and maybe she is still alive... Im not preaching false hope here... Im just saying LE & Fed behavior has been extremely closed from the get go on this case... and they, in my limited experience, dont simply not even try to look for someone... our terrain is rough, sure... and vast, absoultely... but so is montana or colorado, or any other area that one has seen searches before... rougher and more vast then ours even.... so since they have, to our knowledge, never really looked for her, and certainly never asked for help in looking for her... then maybe, just maybe there is a reason for that... JMO

Have thought about this as well. I know child trafficking exists. I know sex trafficking exists. Maybe they found some evidence to suggest such occurred. We don't have many facts.

 

[dda]

I know I am probably gonna catch flak for this but.... listening to all this discussion on bodies and possible methods of disposal, difficulties with locating, and degradation to remains, etc... I think is missing one particular point of possibility... how about maybe she is still alive? Okay before you tell me how unlikely that is, I know... I get it... I know the stats, etc... Im just saying that with the feds being so tight lipped on this since day one... the fact that the only searching done was for the cell phone and that was very, very thorough, the fact they aren't searching, don't seem interested in searching, and aren't asking others to search... tells me they have known "something" on this from the beginning... Even thinking on the things we do "know" ...most of that has come from tips, press, and RAT himself... there is very, very little that LE has ever confirmed... they haven't confirmed specifically about the hair, or HER phone, or accomplices, or CRD, or a BOLO, or anything... what they did was talk to RAT well before her car was found or he was arrested... they served search warrants (sealed), they eventually arrested him with very little detail discussed... and they searched for her phone like crazy until it was possibly found and then pulled up shop.... as soon as that happened her family was able/allowed to talk freely with the press, something her parents weren't able to do before then... so they obviously had, at that point, what they needed... they have not ever, really searched for Alexis at all... and they have hardly ever confirmed much/most of the info we, the public, think we know as certain... and it has been this way from day one... so this behavior to me says maybe... just maybe... they have a reason for not looking for her... maybe because they know she is not here... maybe they have an idea of where she may be, and maybe she is still alive... Im not preaching false hope here... Im just saying LE & Fed behavior has been extremely closed from the get go on this case... and they, in my limited experience, dont simply not even try to look for someone... our terrain is rough, sure... and vast, absoultely... but so is montana or colorado, or any other area that one has seen searches before... rougher and more vast then ours even.... so since they have, to our knowledge, never really looked for her, and certainly never asked for help in looking for her... then maybe, just maybe there is a reason for that... JMO

No flak from me---interesting thoughts. Are you thinking maybe LE is onto a human trafficking scenario? That has been a HUGE focus of the FBI for several years now. And they have recently made some large arrests for human trafficking. I think the FBI could be leading this for several of the reasons that have been mentioned but the human trafficking possibility came to mind right away as well.

 

[4MYGUYS]

I believe RAT has had his site planned and ready long before any abduction, and didn't do any quickie late night digging, or possibly any digging at all. And he probably knows it's safe because of prior use.
He's practiced. JMHO

Does anyone know when his DNA would have been entered into the system prior to this charge? TIA

 

[dda]

As expected, the bond hearing is closed to the public.

http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/b...cle_c1057f98-0a00-11e3-8551-001a4bcf6878.html

 

[MoxieThyme]

No flak from me---interesting thoughts. Are you thinking maybe LE is onto a human trafficking scenario? That has been a HUGE focus of the FBI for several years now. And they have recently made some large arrests for human trafficking. I think the FBI could be leading this for several of the reasons that have been mentioned but the human trafficking possibility came to mind right away as well.

I dont know what the possibilities are... trafficking, sure... or some other possibility... I, and we, dont know... and cant know, because of the limited info that has been released... it just seems that since the only info we get comes from others, not LE.. and since the only time they seem to respond to any of that info is to say "we cant confirm that" that there must be SOMETHING... again, in my limited experience, I have never seen LE be this quiet from day one, and two+ weeks later, not releasing ANY info.. other then 'the car was found', 'we arrested RAT', 'we have more evidence then just a hair (which does not actually say they have a hair), 'we took tire casts' and 'we are still actively focused on Alexis'.... Have they actually CONFIRMED anything other than that? What have they released other then this? when a court date will be? Even their discussion of "we will search that land at some point" (paraphrased) sounds like redirection and deflection to me... and possibly only, dare I say, damage control, for something they didn't really want out there? Im just saying... they haven't let go of one single piece of information unless they absolutely had to, wanted it out there for a reason (true or not), or were trying to minimize something that others reported...... I just think they are holding tight on this case for a reason... they have to be... I dont know what that reason is... but they would not be acting like this otherwise... imho... I think, imo, they are doing this either for Alexis' safety, for a critical need for the investigation... or both... just my :twocents:

 

[Deba]

I know I am probably gonna catch flak for this but.... listening to all this discussion on bodies and possible methods of disposal, difficulties with locating, and degradation to remains, etc... I think is missing one particular point of possibility... how about maybe she is still alive? Okay before you tell me how unlikely that is, I know... I get it... I know the stats, etc... Im just saying that with the feds being so tight lipped on this since day one... the fact that the only searching done was for the cell phone and that was very, very thorough, the fact they aren't searching, don't seem interested in searching, and aren't asking others to search... tells me they have known "something" on this from the beginning... Even thinking on the things we do "know" ...most of that has come from tips, press, and RAT himself... there is very, very little that LE has ever confirmed... they haven't confirmed specifically about the hair, or HER phone, or accomplices, or CRD, or a BOLO, or anything... what they did was talk to RAT well before her car was found or he was arrested... they served search warrants (sealed), they eventually arrested him with very little detail discussed... and they searched for her phone like crazy until it was possibly found and then pulled up shop.... as soon as that happened her family was able/allowed to talk freely with the press, something her parents weren't able to do before then... so they obviously had, at that point, what they needed... they have not ever, really searched for Alexis at all... and they have hardly ever confirmed much/most of the info we, the public, think we know as certain... and it has been this way from day one... so this behavior to me says maybe... just maybe... they have a reason for not looking for her... maybe because they know she is not here... maybe they have an idea of where she may be, and maybe she is still alive... Im not preaching false hope here... Im just saying LE & Fed behavior has been extremely closed from the get go on this case... and they, in my limited experience, dont simply not even try to look for someone... our terrain is rough, sure... and vast, absoultely... but so is montana or colorado, or any other area that one has seen searches before... rougher and more vast then ours even.... so since they have, to our knowledge, never really looked for her, and certainly never asked for help in looking for her... then maybe, just maybe there is a reason for that... JMO

Have you heard rumors circulating concerning this case which could lead one to believe Alexis is still alive? I know we cannot discuss rumors but they are out there.

There is something different about how this case is being handled/publicized. Maybe too much quiet on behalf of the investigators/LE/FBI? Even RAT's lawyer quit talking.

Usually, you have those in LE who are willing to speak to media, even if it is anonymously, to assure the public the right person is behind bars, a killer isn't still on the loose, that they are doing everything to find the missing person and what they are doing to find them, etc.

There is a reason for the quiet. I hope it is a good reason.

 

[MoxieThyme]

Have you heard rumors circulating concerning this case which could lead one to believe Alexis is still alive? I know we cannot discuss rumors but they are out there.

There is something different about how this case is being handled/publicized. Maybe too much quiet on behalf of the investigators/LE/FBI? Even RAT's lawyer quit talking.

Usually, you have those in LE who are willing to speak to media, even if it is anonymously, to assure the public the right person is behind bars, a killer isn't still on the loose, that they are doing everything to find the missing person and what they are doing to find them, etc.

There is a reason for the quiet. I hope it is a good reason.

no, everyone has an opinion locally, just like on here, and elsewhere... the biggest talk out there is why isn't there any searches, and people wanting/ready to search... I agree, about it being too quiet from LE, and also in hoping for that being for a good reason.. His lawyer stopped talking, and once again family is quiet as far as media goes, Ive noticed... and that is CERTAINLY not because they've stopped searching/hoping, etc... even his former employer at drive away motors (and I will have to find the link) who initially came out in support of him being a good guy around her own daughter, signed a confidentiality agreement with the FBI... why is that? I have to wonder if after the brief bit of national attention the family was able to get, if LE/FEDs didnt clamp down on them again... because i KNOW they are doing everything they can/are allowed to do to find her... so IMO the LE/FED are going above and beyond to keep everything under wraps... there has to be a REAL reason for that...

 

[MoxieThyme]

Im sorry... im just so frustrated.. I want info as much as everyone... I am ready, willing, able... and trying hard not.. to go out looking for her myself... I dont mean to go on... its just tearing me up... and they only thing that makes since... is that there is some reason that we in the gen public are not privy to... and that we have to trust that... and its hard even reading those words ... to trust that... but my gut says that in this case, they (LE/FEDs) have a reason... .............. and God help them if they dont...