WA - 3 children, ages 13, 9 and 7, among 5 killed inside Fall City home, 15 y.o. in custody - 21 October 2024

[Seattle1]

Hmm, is someone paying for that, or is it pro bono, I wonder?

From the PCA, we know that investigators took the offender to the Sammamish Police Dept for questioning but he requested an attorney, and did not talk to investigators. I believe he's been represented by the same PD since.

It follows that if he's retained "private counsel" they are probably being paid by his surviving family -- most likely his named guardian (i.e., carrying out the parents wishes). The new defense attorney should be filing notice of appearance by Jan 8, 2025 (next status hearing) if not before.

Personally, I think this is a good thing. I wasn't impressed with the PD who recently suggested the surviving sister was mistaken in what she saw and experienced ('her version'), compared to M13 was indeed the shooter, and not M15 ('defendant's version'). MOO

 

[borndem]

The girl said her entire family had been fatally shot and identified her 15-year-old brother as the gunman. The girl told dispatchers she was also shot by her brother and "then described holding her breath and playing dead," the documents read. The girl later told detectives she had escaped through a bedroom window

Teen charged in shooting deaths of 5 family members tried to blame his brother, court documents say

The teen is accused of shooting his parents, two brothers and a sister in their home in Fall City, Washington, outside Seattle, according to court documents.

www.cbsnews.com

Amazing and smart. Her thinking saved her life. Hoping she is recuperating such that she will be good as new -- at least physically -- soon.
Sure would like to know more about the 15 y/o who apparently tried to kill his whole family.
What a sad, near-unbelievable situation.
So glad there is one survivor. Hoping she will be able to recover physically and mentally. What a tuff road she has already traveled thus far.
I just can't imagine what the 15 year old was thinking. SMH.

 

[Rita7]

Being virtually alone in the world—unless the brother is charged as a juvenile and gets out—is another potential nightmare for her.

Probably later, she will be given a new identity to protect her from a possible threat in the future. Who knows. JMOO

 

[KonaHonu]

In the realty photos (est 2019), the daylight basement is very open and much space available to convert to bedrooms whereas I don't see them messing with the main level, even if they decided not to use the existing master bedroom as built for their own MBR.

I'm not familiar with the lawsuit. I know a Contractor filed a Lien around Sept 2022 for less than $50k which was released around March 2023. I don't know what work was done but it wouldn't take much to partition a couple of bedrooms in the daylight basement. Per the County Assessor, there's no evidence of any "major" remodel or addition to the property. JMO

https://recordsearch.kingcounty.gov/LandmarkWeb/search/index?theme=.blue&section=searchCriteriaName&quickSearchSelection=

Yeah, it's kind of strange, $550,000+ of work and no building permit. I'm beginning to question the $550,000 number reported in MSM

 

[Rita7]

He must have been a fairly good aim, makes me wonder if Dad ever took him to a shooting range?

Or he threatened his siblings to kneel down to shoot.
JMOO

 

[Sundog]

15-year-old accused of killing 5 family members in Fall City gets private representation

The teen will no longer be represented by public defenders.

www.king5.com

Interesting. So does that mean that either an extended family member or members has or have retained a private attorney on his behalf or that someone has stepped up to represent him pro bono, I wonder.

 

[Zinn]

Explore my links in post#283, the building permit appears to have been cancelled? Was the work ever actually done? Is that the reason for the lawsuit filed against the contractor?

The charging documents contain a section that has very specific wording indicating all three bedrooms are in the daylight basement and all victims were found on the daylight basement level. Three victims (Dad, 9M, 7F) were found at one end of a hallway, near the children’s bedrooms and the stairs that lead up to the main level. Another victim (13M) was described as being found “at the other end of the hall” and they described his position in relation to the master bedroom (“head pointing to the right and feet towards the master bedroom”). I don’t know the configuration of the hallway. An additional victim (mother) was found inside the bathroom that is inside the master suite.

I don’t know the details of the interior work that was done after they took ownership in 2019. My concern was that photos of the layout from 2019 or earlier may or may not be representative of the current layout, and we don’t need to rely on that older information anyway since the walk-through specifies the three bedrooms are in the daylight basement.

 

[Sundog]

That's what I am wondering. Who is footing the bill?

I wonder if the parents had a will and that is somehow influencing the move to a private attorney, the 15-year old now has money and a guardian is appointed in the will to carry out their wishes vis a vis the children and hence the 15-year old?

Hard to imagine this, but other than a pro bona attorney, that pretty much only leaves his family and I think they would be satisfied with a public defender for him. JMO.

This will be an expensive undertaking with attorney's fees, expert witnesses, etc., and over a long period of time.

 

[Seattle1]

From the KC Portal, prior defense counsel filed notices to withdraw on Nov 1, and Notice of Substitution of Counsel filed the same date.

King County Juvenile Defense Public Defense page recites how juvenile defense is also a specialized area of law, and as a result, their attorneys receive extensive training in youth brain development and caselaw specific to young adults. They’re expected to understand education law, juvenile court rules, and the community programs and partners in King County that can support young people.

I believe the Juvenile DPC mostly partners with private firms to meet and accomplish their goal. For example, two of M15's former defense attorneys (Julie Kline & Benjamin Gauen) were both from Schroeter, Goldmark & Bender. MOO

Our Experienced Lawyers & Attorneys | SGB Seattle Law Firm

Juvenile defense - Public Defense - King County, Washington

kingcounty.gov

 

[Seattle1]

Discretionary Decline Hearing -- scheduled for June 2025.

Here’s how discretionary decline hearings work:

• Before the juvenile court can decline jurisdiction, it must find by a preponderance of the evidence that transferring the case to the adult system is in the best interest of either the youth or the public. The prosecutor has the burden of proof.

• The judge must consider the eight factors established in Kent v. U.S. (see box, page 2/3 linked below) before making their decision.

The Kent factors are intended to guide the court’s inquiry; not all need to be met.

• If the judge declines juvenile jurisdiction, the case is transferred to adult court.

https://cdn.kingcounty.gov/-/media/king-county/depts/dpd/documents/practice-areas/juvenile-defense-brochure.pdf?rev=faba1e8289c3409685430745f71ddc43&hash=D4BC942E2CDA8B1B0D456BBA96433DA9

 

[borndem]

It will be interesting to see if the boy has remorse for his acts or is a complete sociopath. Are the reports accurate about well-adjusted kids and a happy family, or was their a darker side to their family life?
I just can't fathom this crime.

Same here.
Did the parents see that the son was changing in recent weeks or months? Did he meet new friends?
Were the parents extremely demanding?
From the comments of the neighborhood folks who were questioned, it sounded like things were okay at home.
And I do worry about the surviving girl in the family...

 

[Seattle1]

I wonder if the parents had a will and that is somehow influencing the move to a private attorney, the 15-year old now has money and a guardian is appointed in the will to carry out their wishes vis a vis the children and hence the 15-year old?

Hard to imagine this, but other than a pro bona attorney, that pretty much only leaves his family and I think they would be satisfied with a public defender for him. JMO.

This will be an expensive undertaking with attorney's fees, expert witnesses, etc., and over a long period of time.

I believe this applies is all states/jurisdictions where if you are held in custody, you are entitled to a public defender, regardless of your ability to pay.

In WA, if you are later determined not indigent and/or do not qualify for a public defender, you will be required to sign a promissory note to help pay for your attorney.

In other words, in WA, you must meet certain financial guidelines to qualify for a PD, and as a dependent minor, it's not likely M15 qualifies.

If you have been charged with a juvenile offender crime​

You will automatically be assigned an attorney. They will be present at your first hearing. Your parents or guardian are responsible for helping to pay for the attorney if they can afford to do so. DPD will send a letter to your parents or guardian requesting financial information to determine if they are able to pay.

Cases Public Defense supports - King County, Washington

kingcounty.gov

Am I eligible for a Public Defense attorney? - King County, Washington

 

[borndem]

I was glad to hear the family friend say that the surviving sister has a lot of extended family members who will support her.

That's good news. She will need support.

 

[borndem]

The process for Minors under age 16 can take several months whereas older teens 16+ charged with violent crimes can automatically be charged as adults by the prosecutor per WA Statute. Next status hearing will be in January 2025.

Re the January 2025 date -- reminds me of a slowly dripping faucet: drip.........drip..........drip..........drip.
damm.

 

[KonaHonu]

I wonder if the parents had a will and that is somehow influencing the move to a private attorney, the 15-year old now has money and a guardian is appointed in the will to carry out their wishes vis a vis the children and hence the 15-year old?

Hard to imagine this, but other than a pro bona attorney, that pretty much only leaves his family and I think they would be satisfied with a public defender for him. JMO.

This will be an expensive undertaking with attorney's fees, expert witnesses, etc., and over a long period of time.

Another possibility is that the public defender's office is paying the private attorney as a contractor since this is such a high profile case.

 

[realanastasia]

Interesting. So does that mean that either an extended family member or members has or have retained a private attorney on his behalf or that someone has stepped up to represent him pro bono, I wonder.

Well, the guardian of the surviving child wanted to deny the initial defense team the chance to examine the scene afterM15 was charged, per the Seattle Times article linked earlier on this thread—IMO, seems like they would’ve had quite a change of heart if they have now decided to pay for private counsel for him.

 

[Kemug]

Same here.
Did the parents see that the son was changing in recent weeks or months? Did he meet new friends?
Were the parents extremely demanding?
From the comments of the neighborhood folks who were questioned, it sounded like things were okay at home.
And I do worry about the surviving girl in the family...

The truth is that teenagers can and do change enormously, that is just how it is. One day you have a pleasant normal child, the next day you may have a sulky, uncooperative teenager who shuts himself in his room, refuses to speak, and if he does, it is only to let you know how incredibly stupid and ignorant you are. At this point it is best to just go to sleep for a few years, and then wake up to a civil, pleasant young person who not only respects your opinion, but sometimes even asks for your advice.

 

[Seattle1]

Another possibility is that the public defender's office is paying the private attorney as a contractor since this is such a high profile case.

If you have been charged with a juvenile offender crime​

You will automatically be assigned an attorney. They will be present at your first hearing. Your parents or guardian are responsible for helping to pay for the attorney if they can afford to do so. DPD will send a letter to your parents or guardian requesting financial information to determine if they are able to pay.

Cases Public Defense supports - King County, Washington

kingcounty.gov

Am I eligible for a Public Defense attorney? - King County, Washington

 

[borndem]

The murder of the minor children especially, may endure the killer never walks free !
I hope so.
He can claim whatever ... but thankfully the surviving sibling will be able to testify to the accuracy of the excuses he may make ?

So sorry for this girl.
Imo.

bbm
Hmmm. Good point, Chimera -- I hadn't thought of that angle.
Hoping for the best for the surviving girl. She is alive and apparently doing as well as is possible. She, IMO, will certainly never be the same, but it sounds like she has other family members who can be with her and help her in whatever ways they are able.
I do wonder if the surviving girl noticed anything unusual with the brother who wrought the killings before his rampage occurred.

 

[Seattle1]

Well, the guardian of the surviving child wanted to deny the initial defense team the chance to examine the scene afterM15 was charged, per the Seattle Times article linked earlier on this thread—IMO, seems like they would’ve had quite a change of heart if they have now decided to pay for private counsel for him.

I don't believe the guardian wanted to outright deny the defense access as much as 1) they wanted to have the house cleaned and retrieve the family's personal effects, and 2) the WSP had already spent more than 20 hours processing the scene, and taken more than 1200 crimes scene photos which will be discovered to them. Ultimately, the Court ruled in favor of the defense and granted them 10 hours.

Parker wrote that defense attorneys were only allowed into the home for one hour several days after the killings and requested the defense be able to investigate the crime scene again, according to the declaration. [...] The judge ordered the house be preserved and allowed the defense team about 10 hours to enter the home and document evidence on Tuesday.

Fall City mass shooting: Records show possible defense for teen suspect

Prosecutors allege the 15-year-old framed his 13-year-old brother as the shooter, but defense attorneys say the suspect's narrative is "forensically viable."

www.seattletimes.com